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eric_a
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 4:07pm | IP Logged
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Hi - I've been looking to find or edit two early Chicago singles, Beginnings and Questions 67 and 68, from their album versions. As far as I can tell, they don't seem to exist on CD. (The Rhino reissues have some other early single versions, including "25 or 6 to 4").
The TMCentury Golddisc database lists "Beginnings" as a 2:32 edit, with a 5-second intro. I remember hearing this on the radio once, but I can't recall where the cuts were. Based on that information, I created my own edit, cutting directly from the guitar intro and drum fill to the first verse. Then, after the breakdown, I cut back into the second set of "Woah-oh-oh" and faded there. Does anyone know if this is correct?
The database also lists a short version of "Questions 67 & 68". Anyone familiar with this?
Thanks - Eric
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edtop40
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the 45 of "beginnings" runs 2:45 and i don't think was ever issued on cd........the 45 of "questions 67 and 68" runs 3:25 and was issued on the cd "greatest hits volume 2"........as far as my research goes, the only two 45 versions NOT ever issued on cd are "beginnings" and "does anybody really know what time it is?" with the spoken words during the break........edtop40
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davidclark
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 7:23pm | IP Logged
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edtop40....so, the 45 of "does anybody really know what time it is?" HAS the talking? I don't have a 45 to compare, but I seem to recall it not being there when I listened to it on the radio, which I remember as being played without the longer brass intro too, i.e., shortening it to 20 seconds from 46. perhaps there is a radio edit (which could be what i have on the LP Chicago IX Greatest Hits, NOT the CD of same). whew.
SO, my real question, was the talking on the 45 and how long does it run. thanks
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aaronk
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 7:25pm | IP Logged
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If you're using TM Century's database as a reference, you should note that the times listed are NOT the full run times of the songs. The times are based on when the next song (or element) should start when playing it on the air. (Obviously, you wouldn't hear the song fade all the way out before the next song started, unless the DJ wasn't paying attention.) So, in this case, the DJ would start another song, play a station ID, etc., when "Beginnings" is at the 2:32 mark. (Generally, the times listed are when the song fades to the point of peaking at the -12 db mark.)
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:18pm | IP Logged
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No talking on my commercial copy of "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is".
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edtop40
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:24pm | IP Logged
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i just listened to my 45 versus the version from their greatest hits vol 1 and the cd HAS spoken words in the background from the 2:12-2:32 mark while the 45 does not........the songs are the same otherwise.........they both run 3:17.....the cd is stereo while the 45 version is mono.......hope this clear this up.............does anyone have this song on cd WITHOUT the spoken words in the background??
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sriv94
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
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The 2:52 DJ edit appears on the long out-of-print "If You Leave Me Now." No talking on that one, BTW. I don't have Pat's book in front of me, and I can't recall if the 2:52 edit was stereo or mono.
Doug
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edtop40
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:47pm | IP Logged
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the dj edit of beginings or does anyone??
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sriv94
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:53pm | IP Logged
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Sorry. The DJ edit of "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?"
Did "Beginnings" have a DJ edit (I know there was a commercial edit)?
Doug
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sriv94
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| Posted: 05 October 2005 at 8:58pm | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| the 45 of "beginnings" runs 2:45 and i don't think was ever issued on cd........the 45 of "questions 67 and 68" runs 3:25 and was issued on the cd "greatest hits volume 2"........as far as my research goes, the only two 45 versions NOT ever issued on cd are "beginnings" and "does anybody really know what time it is?" with the spoken words during the break........edtop40 |
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I don't think the 45 of "(I've Been) Searchin' So Long" was issued on a CD (all CDs I know have the LP version unless something changed recently). And I'm not aware of the 45 edit of "I'm A Man" (the B-side of "Questions 67 & 68") on a CD either (the Rhino edit on "The Very Best of Chicago" is not the 45 version).
Doug
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davidclark
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| Posted: 06 October 2005 at 5:05am | IP Logged
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thanks for clearing that up re: the 45 and DJ edits of "does anybody really know what time it is?". So, the 45 hasn't been on CD then. And the dj edit was on "If You Leave Me Now". Never heard of that one! It WAS stereo on the LP Chicago IX Greatest Hits of course.
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Todd Ireland
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I haven't yet attempted to replicate the 45 version of "Beginnings" from the LP version yet, but I have done an A/B comparison between the two to get an idea of where the edits occur. Let me tell you, the 45 version is one awful hatchet job! You would need to perform five different edits on the LP version to create the 45, plus you'd have to go back and extract an earlier part of the song, splice it at the end, and fade it so that it matches the 45 ending. Rather than undergo the tedious task of trying to explain here where the edits occur, I think it would be far better for me to send an mp3 copy of the vinyl 45 version via e-mail if anyone is interested.
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Bill Cahill
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History on those Chicago edits:
First 45 was Question 67 and 68 in 1969. Barely charted. DJ Copy had a different edit than the 1971 45 issue. Different intro edit, different second edit to remove the second verse. It was a true mono mix with a louder vocal than heard anywhere else. Mono A side was that edit, Mono B side was the full LP version but mixed for a Mono punch.
Second 45 was Beginnings which features 11 edits. And good luck finding all the parts! TM Century did not get them all correct. TM Century actually has one small part in mono because they couldn't figure out the edit so they inserted a small part of the mono 45 into their edit. Then TM Century edited the ending wrong. B side in 1969 was and edit of Poem 58. This 1969 single didn't chart but has a time listed as 2:47. It's the same as the 2:45 version issued in 1971 with Colour My World on the back. I don't think there is any difference in the time.
When Columbia decided to issue Beginnings again in 1971 they simply went back to the edit from 1969. Which is why that 45 was mono on both sides (including Colour My World) even though previous 45s were stereo. Columbia never edited Beginnings for stereo. But when they issued Questions 67 and 68, they re-edited the song from the stereo LP, and ignored the 1969 remix and issued a stereo single.
Yeah Chicago's Greatest Hits on vinyl had the DJ edit/mix and edit of Does Anybody Know What Time It Is? but when Columbia made the CD they replaced it with an edit from the LP version. Correctly stated on this string is the appearance of that exact same DJ edit/mix on the out of print If You Leave Me Know CD.
The DJ edit of Wishing You Were Here has not made it to CD either.
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Rick Hunter
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I played the 45 version of "Does Anybody Really Know...." on the radio as a CURRENT HIT (cough cough) in 1971 and am still playing it - although. until recently, it's been the incorrect version from the Century 21 CD.
I've just reconstructed the full, correct hit single version, which includes the horns intro and NO talking. Running time is 3:17
About 2 years ago when I was playing the incorrect "talk" version, a station exec (who is no longer there, but will remain nameless) called the switchboard gal to have her inform me that I had left the mic on and she could hear me "talking" during the song.
I've just ripped the correct version into the station's computer...no more eroneous calls from station management.
Rick Hunter
Oldies 104.3 WOMC/Detroit
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edtop40
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| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 6:43pm | IP Logged
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hey rich.....any way you could shoot a wave file of the correct "no voice" 45 on cd to me?
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Rick Hunter
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| Posted: 25 October 2005 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
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Sure edtop40. How do I get it to you?
RH
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aaronk
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Funny story, Rick! How are things in Detroit? I left WDRQ two years ago for Dallas. My old station is probably playing "Beginnings" now that they've become "Doug FM."
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eric_a
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| Posted: 28 October 2005 at 6:03pm | IP Logged
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So I finally sat down and cut the stereo CD version (from "The Heart of Chicago" CD) and believe these are the cuts you'd need to make your own. All times are from the CD version:
0:00-0:02 - Acoustic guitar from beginning. Cut after two bars to:
0:06-0:09 - 2-bar Drum fill to:
0:35-1:40 -Downbeat of first verse. Cut after second "silence...la la la" to:
1:49-2:43 Downbeat of verse ("When I kiss you"). Cut right before "Mostly"
Then there's a quick drum fill from the 45. Apparently TM Century couldn't find it, so I lifted it from the 45 too. Then to:
3:02-3:12 Instrumental breakdown (4 bars) to:
3:56-4:04 One of the last "Only the beginning" lines, with the horns. Cut back to:
2:27-2:43 Chorus "oooooh". Cut before "Mostly" to:
2:35-2:43 Back to horn hook; repeat this segment and fade.
Somehow wrote 11 cuts, I guess this is only 10 - did I miss something? In any case, this will get you pretty close...good luck!
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 29 October 2005 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
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That missing piece that nobody can find is the beat found before the second "Mostly I'm silent".. after the second woah woah woah part.. it's just one little beat and why they put it there I can't say.
As far as how I count 11..
On the 2:47 45 there are three splices at the very end on the fade out... you have to crank your volume up to hear them. I only have 2:47 copies. If somebody has a 2:45 copy (with Colour My World on the other side) they can verify if those splices are on those copies too. They may have faded out the song before those splices on the 2:45 version. I don't know. The 2:47 version was released in 1969 and again on some promo copies in the 1970s and may have been on the Hall of Fame reissues.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 13 February 2006 at 11:18am | IP Logged
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so.........does anyone have a computer generated edit of "beginnings" that matches the 45 issued as columbia 45417
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Chicago - Beginnings & Questions 45s
