| Author |
|
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 12:26am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I noticed the database lists "with 45 ending" or "with LP ending" next to each
CD appearance of "Hitchin' A Ride" by Vanity Fare. Shouldn't this just be "45
length" and "LP length"? The 45 is simply an early fade of the LP version,
shortening the song by 20-some seconds.
Edited by aaronk on 16 October 2011 at 9:30pm
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1079
|
| Posted: 14 June 2006 at 4:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I believe so, aaronk. There'd be previous posts on this one a while ago too!
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1079
|
| Posted: 20 September 2011 at 4:25am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I have to raise this to the top, as I have compared the mono LP length and
the 45 (from "On The Radio" CD) and I don't hear an ending difference,
rather a simple early fade (and of course it being mono) for the 45. Where
exactly do they deviate? Pat?
Also, there are mostly mono mixes of the LP length on CD. Does anyone
know if this version appeared in 1970, or if not, when did it first appear? I
have the "Early In The Morning" LP, and it's stereo LP length there. Was the
LP available in mono? somewhere?
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Pat Downey
Admin Group
Joined: 01 October 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1736
|
| Posted: 20 September 2011 at 7:26pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The 45 and LP start diverging at 2:43 where at least the stereo LP version starts including some vocals (ride, ride) that you never hear on the 45. Perhaps there is a mono "Early In The Morning" LP but I am not aware of it.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 20 September 2011 at 9:15pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The 45 only runs 2:39, so of course there are vocals at 2:43 that you never hear on the 45! I know this is a decision you made years ago, but it's never made any sense to me. If the 45 and LP are identical, except that the 45 fades early (or later), it should be designated "length."
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1079
|
| Posted: 21 September 2011 at 12:01am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I agree with Aaron.
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bill Cahill
MusicFan
Joined: 27 June 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
|
| Posted: 21 September 2011 at 4:00am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I think the full length mono issues on CD came from the British 45 which was not faded early. Probably because the best tapes that could be found came from overseas, and I suspect the original stereo tapes could not be found or were unusable.
So I believe all issues on CD have either 45 length, LP length, or remix (from multitracks).. or horrible remakes..
Edited by Bill Cahill on 21 September 2011 at 4:01am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1079
|
| Posted: 21 September 2011 at 9:42am | IP Logged
|
|
|
ahhh, a case of the US 45 fading early. A friend tells me his Canadian 45
runs the full LP length as well.
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
KentT
MusicFan
Joined: 25 May 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 650
|
| Posted: 16 October 2011 at 11:30am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Remember this is a UK Recording to begin with. For UK Page
One Records. Roger Easterby Management owns the master
presently. And this was a mono only recording.
__________________
I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
edtop40
MusicFan
Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4991
|
| Posted: 16 October 2011 at 11:52am | IP Logged
|
|
|
my commercial 45 issued as page one 21,029 is in mono and lists a run time on the label as 2:37 and does indeed run that length...if you fade the super hits of the 70's cd for 0:06 from 2:31 to 2:37 you'll effectively re-create the true vinyl 45 version......
__________________
edtop40
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1079
|
| Posted: 16 October 2011 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Kent: not sure what you mean by it being only a mono recording, as it is
stereo on the original US Page One LP.
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TomDiehl1
MusicFan
Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715
|
| Posted: 01 November 2011 at 8:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
My promotional 45 is Page One 21,029 and is a mono/stereo promo with 2:37 as the given time on both sides. It is styrene and is a Bestway pressing. The mono side runs (2:39) and the deadwax reads: (machine stamped) 9455-R1 Bell Sound (handwritten) LW Bestway. The stereo side runs (2:40) with a very slightly longer fade out and the deadwax reads: (machine stamped) 9455-S-1 Bell Sound (handwritten) LW Bestway. The stereo side is probably the same stereo mix as the original LP, but faded early (I do not have the stereo LP mix to compare it to, though).
Edited by TomDiehl1 on 01 November 2011 at 8:49pm
__________________
Live in stereo.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2192
|
| Posted: 21 August 2019 at 8:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
LP length (3:05) in mono
The oldest CD I have with this song is PolyTel Canada's 2-CD Brit's Blitz (1987). It's from crackly vinyl, it has inner groove distortion at the end of the song, and it truncates the fade. The odds are pretty good that you'll never encounter this dreadful CD set, so we'll move on.
Infinitely better is Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 2 (1990). Here, it runs 3:04, and seems to be from a tape source. Nice dynamic range, reasonable EQ, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade, and a nice, long tail to the fade. The following CDs all use the same analog transfer as Have A Nice Day Vol. 2:- Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 20 Early '70s Classics (1992) - digitally exactly 0.1 dB quieter
- Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 15 Early '70s Classics (1992) - digitally exactly 0.1 dB quieter; only on first pressings of this disc; later RE-1 reissue replaces "Hitchin' A Ride" with "We May Never Pass This Way Again"
- Rhino's cheapie Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 2 (1993) - digitally identical
- Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 31 AM Top Twenty (1993) - shortens tail of fade by about 4 seconds
- Time-Life's 2-CD Seventies Music Explosion Vol. 3 Miracles (2005) - digitally exactly 0.61 dB quieter
LP length (3:05) in stereo
This does exist, but apparently only on Starland Music/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Starland Music Presents Good Times Rock & Roll, also released as Starland Music Presents 40 Summer Fun Hits (OPCD-4545, released 1993). Here, it runs 3:03. On the intro, the whistle is in the right channel. The mastering is a little loud, with a small amount of clipping in the loud portions (nowhere near as loud as typical loudness-war discs), reasonable EQ, and no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. But it seems to be from vinyl; I hear some cracklies and a little turntable rumble on the fade. Still, it's a nice transfer from vinyl, and the sound is better than a lot of vinyl transfers.
45 length (2:39) in stereo
It's on Varese Sarabande's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 1 (1997). It runs 2:41 here, and fades from 2:32 to 2:41. It seems very muffled compared to the Starland disc above, and I hear evidence of noise reduction (high end disappears on the fade). On the intro, the whistle is in the left channel, which is the opposite of the Starland disc. I don't have this song on vinyl, so I can't tell which one is correct.
My recommendations
For the LP length in mono, go with Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 2 (1990).
For the LP length in stereo, go with Starland Music Presents Good Times Rock & Roll or Starland Music Presents 40 Summer Fun Hits (1993).
For the 45 length in stereo, try fading the Starland disc early. The Dick Bartley disc fades from 2:32 to 2:41; that should work unless someone posts more accurate fade points.
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
KentT
MusicFan
Joined: 25 May 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 650
|
| Posted: 22 August 2019 at 5:22am | IP Logged
|
|
|
TomDiehl1 wrote:
My promotional 45 is Page One 21,029
and is a mono/stereo promo with 2:37 as the given time
on both sides. It is styrene and is a Bestway pressing.
The mono side runs (2:39) and the deadwax reads:
(machine stamped) 9455-R1 Bell Sound (handwritten) LW
Bestway. The stereo side runs (2:40) with a very
slightly longer fade out and the deadwax reads: (machine
stamped) 9455-S-1 Bell Sound (handwritten) LW Bestway.
The stereo side is probably the same stereo mix as the
original LP, but faded early (I do not have the stereo
LP mix to compare it to, though). |
|
|
I now have a nice copy of this. By mono only, I meant to
say for the public, that the 45 RPM single is mono only.
And the LP length was Stereo. The Promo Stereo side is
true Stereo, and very nice sounding Stereo.
__________________
I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Bill Cahill
MusicFan
Joined: 27 June 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
|
| Posted: 22 August 2019 at 6:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I beat the odds and have that terrible Polytel Brit's Blitz CD too!
Revisting this thread, here's some additional thoughts.
The "Rhino's Have a Nice Day Volume 2" and the vinyl dub on the Polytel CD contain a mono mix that I don't have on an American single. My DJ copy,
mono and stereo sides, does not contain the organ boost that you'll hear at 1:47 on the Rhino CD. It DOES match my import 45. You'll also note a
louder vocal (between the drop outs) on that Rhino CD too. Polytel doesn't have the drop outs, just lots of vinyl noise. So I'm thinking that there
was a dedicated mono mix created for this song. It just may have never been released in the US on CD until the Polytel CD, then Bill Inglot's
transfer from tape for Rhino/Time Life.
There's also speed differences, so that organ piece is at around 1:51 on my mono DJ side, where it is NOT boosted.
As we know, that "Have a Nice Day" dub has a million drop-outs. Makes me wonder if Bell got mono and stereo dubs from England and found the mono tape
to be unusable, dubbed on bad tape, so instead of asking for a new dub, simply folded down the stereo version, muddied it up a bit with EQ and a
little more compression, faded it early, and put it out that way. The stereo DJ side matches the stereo album mix faded early, no real EQ difference.
The DJ 45 might have slightly more stereo separation but it's the same thing. I suppose the US mono 45 could be a different mono mix that closely
matches a muddied up stereo fold down, but I doubt it, sounds like a fold down to me. I've owned several 45s and they all had the same sound. That
doesn't mean that at some point Bell got a better mono tape and used it for later pressings, but I've never heard one.
Your ears may vary.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
davidclark
MusicFan
Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1079
|
| Posted: 22 August 2019 at 6:20am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The longer mono version also appeared on the original UK and CAD 45s. I had
the original LP, and the whistle is in the left channel.
__________________
dc1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2192
|
| Posted: 22 August 2019 at 8:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I agree that there's an organ boost at 1:47 on the Rhino CD, and 1:48 on Brit's Blitz. Bill confirmed that this mono mix matches the import (UK?) 45, but doesn't quite match the mono mix on the US promo 45.
I hear the same organ boost at 1:48 on the left channel of the Starland Music disc, but not in the right channel. (David confirmed that the Starland disc has its left/right channels reversed.)
Is it possible that the UK 45 version, found on the Rhino CD and Brit's Blitz (and the vinyl that was played for Brit's Blitz), is still a fold-down, but a fold-down that doesn't use the left and right channels equally? It could be that the instrumental breakdown portion uses only the left channel of the stereo mix, which does include the organ boost.
I'm going to defer to others to compare the mixes more closely. I'm not so good at untangling the EQ/compression differences.
Edited by crapfromthepast on 23 August 2019 at 7:10am
__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
eriejwg
MusicFan
Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3484
|
| Posted: 22 August 2019 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Do any CD's in the database match the mono U.S. 45?
__________________
John Gallagher
John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment
Snapblast Photo Booth
Erie, PA
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Vanity Fare - Hitchin’ A Ride
