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edtop40
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 6:35pm | IP Logged
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"beat it" runs 4:17 on essential while the 45 runs 4:11 and is just an early fade of the cd version.....
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edtop40
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 7:07pm | IP Logged
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can you guys PLEASE tell me where the differences are on the lp edits versus 45 versions comments.........they sound good to me.....
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 7:50pm | IP Logged
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Man, this IS highly disappointing to hear we got gypped on several of the 45 versions. I'm glad I held off buying it long enough to read this thread. If the producers couldn't include the singles masters on this compilation, then it makes me wonder if we'll ever see the 45 mixes of "Off the Wall", "Wanna Be Startin' Something", and "Human Nature" on a U.S. CD release.
Actually, Ed's question about "Wanna Be Startin' Something" is making me hold out at least some hope for that song. Can anyone explain what differences they perceive between the version on the Essential CD and the LP version?
Edited by Todd Ireland on 19 July 2005 at 8:00pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 10:41pm | IP Logged
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If you A/B "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" on Essential and from the 45, you'll never hear the difference, because the edit points are correct and the mix is pretty much the same. However, if you cue in to around 1:10 on Essential, right at the lyric "Billie Jean is always talking," you can hear where they edited the LP version---there is a sound effect that overlaps the lyrics at this point; plus, the horns and synthesizer chop off abrubtly.
On the 45, the reverb from the horns and the synthesizer note overlaps the vocal part, and you can't hear the sound effect. So they must have remixed the single, rather than just making an edit for the 45. This is a very subtle difference, but still, if they were going to put the "45 version" on the disc, why on earth did they re-edit the LP version instead of just pulling the 45 master tape?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
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edtop40, as you noticed with "Human Nature," the 45 version has the extra overdub at the bridge with a synthesizer added in. On Essential, they matched the edits of the 45, but they used the LP version which does not have the overdub...hence the reason I was calling this an edit of the LP version. (By the way, in Brian's post of all the MJ 45 versions, he does note that the label time is incorrectly listed as 4:05.)
The same thing goes for "Off The Wall." They just matched the edits of the 45, but used the LP version. The 45 is mixed with some added reverb/delay on the vocals (and perhaps some other differences I can't recall at the moment) and it's not the same one used on the album.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 11:30pm | IP Logged
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Yes, the 45 of Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' is actually a different MIX than the album version. Note on the 45 the much louder "OOH" right before he starts into the song, and the much louder spoken "You're a vegetable" in the right ear during the bridge -- it really jumps out at you. Also, the piano during "Mama say mama sa ma ma cu sa" is mixed louder, and there is ECHO on that piano, as well as on Michael's vocal on "I know I am someone, and let the truth unfurl, no one can hurt you now..." that is NOT present on the album version. These are not simple EQ differences.
And you can hear the bad edit point on the version on "Essential" right at "Billie Jean is always talkin'" -- there's the tail end of an instrument... sounds like monkey going, "Ooh ooh ooh"... that is present on the instrumental break at that point on the LP. But that little remnant of it is totally gone in the 45 version.
The 45 mix of "Off the Wall" has the guitar track mixed much louder, almost as loud as Michael's vocal, and there is extra echo on Michael's vocal that is not present on the LP. In addition, the handclaps are completely centered on the 45 mix, while on the LP version it's like there's a separate handclap in each ear.
As Aaron pointed out, "Human Nature" is different only on the instrumental break... a different instrument is dubbed in there, sort a synthesizer "flute" sound.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 19 July 2005 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| "beat it" runs 4:17 on essential while the 45 runs 4:11 and is just an early fade of the cd version..... |
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I'll be damned, Ed! I had no idea Beat It ran shorter on the 45. Never even checked. Hmm, there was a Japanese CD3 of Billie Jean/Beat It... Also a US CD3... wonder how long it ran on those...
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80smusicfreak
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| Posted: 20 July 2005 at 7:45am | IP Logged
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Okay, so yesterday (Tuesday) I, too, broke down and
bought the new 2-CD "Essential MJ" collection, partly due
to what I'd been reading here on this message board over
the last few weeks (but before this whole new thread by
edtop40 went up)...
For starters, just let me say that you guys are certainly
doing an amazing job of dissecting this one - keep up the
good work! :-)
However, it seems that no one has yet to mention one
other error/problem w/ this collection, at least on the
copy I bought: On another thread, there was a debate
about whether or not the U.S. edition would include the
Jacksons' 1981 hit, "Can You Feel It" (always a personal
fave of mine). So I found the new collection at my local
Best Buy, and sure enough, the song was listed on the
back insert as track #14 on CD 1. But then I noticed
something strange - the yellow promo sticker on the front
of the plastic jewel case stated, among other things, "37
TRACKS ON 2 CDs!" Yet the back insert listed 21 tracks on
CD 1 and 17 on CD 2, and that of course does not equal 37
- and I immediately knew the conflict must have had
something to do w/ "Can You Feel It"...
Nevertheless, I went ahead and bought it anyway, and when
I removed the shrink-wrap after getting home, I
discovered that "Can You Feel It" was NOT listed on the
CD (Disc 1) itself - it shows only 20 tracks (along w/
their individual timings)! At that point, I had given up
hope that the song was included...
But lo & behold, when I played Disc 1, I was relieved to
discover that "Can You Feel It" is indeed on there, and
yes, it's track #14, just as the back insert states.
(Pat's review from last week indicates that his copy - an
advance promo, I assume - has the song tacked on to the
very end of Disc 1, w/ a running time of 3:41; it clocks
in at 3:49 on my copy. Yet another difference???)
So does anybody else's copy of "The Essential MJ" omit
"Can You Feel It" from the track listing on the CD
itself, and/or have the erroneous sticker stating that
the collection features only "37 tracks"???
It appears the song must've been a last-minute inclusion,
and probably explains why the original street date was
bumped to July 19...
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 20 July 2005 at 9:05am | IP Logged
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It sounds to me like "Wanna Be Startin' Something" could be best described with a comment like: (edit of the LP version that closely resembles the 45 version but is not the 45 version).
"Off the Wall" and "Human Nature" both probably qualify for the following comment which Pat occasionally uses: (edit of the LP version in an unsuccessful attempt at recreating the 45 version).
Edited by Todd Ireland on 20 July 2005 at 9:09am
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EdisonLite
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Todd writes: <If the producers couldn't include the singles masters on this compilation, then it makes me wonder if we'll ever see the 45 mixes of ...>
This makes me wonder if his single master tapes were lost or destroyed. Let's face it -- doing all these edits on all these songs to "approximate" the single versions is a LOT more time consuming (and expensive) than pulling the singles tapes from the vaults when you're pulling the album tapes!
I know sometimes album versions or alternate versions are accidentally used, but clearly in this case the producers of this project were attempting to include single versions, and since they didn't use the true single versions, I wonder what the story is here -- does anyone know if Sony lost or trashed the tapes?
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 20 July 2005 at 1:06pm | IP Logged
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Well, I'm going to find out... I just sent a letter to the producer and the mastering engineer today... We know they had tapes in Japan in the late '80s...
I'm still an toying with the idea of buying the import versions of this, especially the Japanese, to see if they could possibly have used the real versions. It DOES happen sometimes...
For example, the UK edition of Very Best of the Jacksons contiains almost all single edits of their Epic hits. (Did you guys know that? I've been meaning to post that.) But the Australia/New Zealand version, which has exactly the same cover and exactly the same track listing, uses the album versions for the most part.
Edited by Brian W. on 20 July 2005 at 1:07pm
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 22 July 2005 at 3:48am | IP Logged
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Okay, I've done some A/B comparisons for some of the "Essential" tracks now with the original CD singles.
Who is It, Another Part of Me, and In the Closet are all the exact 45 versions. I A/Bd the wave files for all of them with the promo CD singles.
But I noticed something strange about "Way You Make Me Feel." It was getting out of sync quite quickly with the the original US CD single. Then I noticed another very slight difference, and realized that "Way You Make Me Feel" on "Essential" is NOT the exact 45 version. They again "recreated" it... I think from the mix on "HiStory," which I'd always thought was simply a longer version of the 45 mix.
Not so... on the line, "Ah cha ooh" at around 2:05, right before the instrumental break, there is a FINGER SNAP type sound on the word, "Ooh" on the original single, but it's NOT THERE on "Essential." And the snap is also missing from the "HiStory" album remix. So appears they just edited that down to match the 45 length.
In addition, right at the fadeout at 4:25, "Essential" dubs in another part of the song... "Give me some time..." You'd never be able to hear that normally, but try listening through headphones with the volume way up. You can hear the bad edit at the tail end of the fadeout, which is NOT present on the 45.
So "Way You Make Me Feel" is yet another "recreated" 45 version here for some mysterious reason.
Edited by Brian W. on 22 July 2005 at 3:53am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 22 July 2005 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| "smooth criminal"...the version from the cd "bad" IS the 45 version (with the heavy breathing) but it fades out to the 4:10 mark |
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Actually, as Brian points out in the "Michael Jackson 45 versions on CD" thread, the 45 of "Smooth Criminal" is a shortened version of the Dance Mix. If you listen carefully, the drum beat has more "punch" on the 45, and right before the first verse starts, for example, there's some extra drums that aren't on the LP version. Also, I believe the 45 is pitched up quite a bit, when compared to the LP version.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 22 July 2005 at 2:42pm | IP Logged
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Pat, Aaron and I noticed that you have "Can You Feel It" listed as the last track on disc one in your review, when it's track 14 on the commercial CD... also that you haven't altered your review or chimed in on any of this... Any possibility that you received a different pressing that used the correct single versions???
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 22 July 2005 at 3:37pm | IP Logged
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No I will alter the review this weekend as I have been out of town and trying to apply the cattle prod to my contract labor to get the electronic version of Top 40 Music On Compact Disc up and running. I do appreciate the input from the contributors that will be reflected in the new edition.
I am sure that I have the same cd that is being commercially sold. The reason I listed "Can You Feel It" last was that since it was not a top 40 hit, I failed to enter it in my handwritten notes and caught the deletion when I counted the tracks to be sure I reported the correct number of tracks and at that point simply entered the track after my previously entered data.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 July 2005 at 12:15am | IP Logged
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edtop40 wrote:
| "beat it" runs 4:17 on essential while the 45 runs 4:11 and is just an early fade of the cd version..... |
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Update: I actually do have this version on my old UK Michael Jackson Tour Souvenir Pack CD set, but it plays a hair slower than my 45, which runs just barely 4:12... the one on Tour Souvenir Pack runs 4:14, but it fades out at the same point.
Hardly a difference between it and the album version though... it fades right on the final "whoo hoo," ending on "Just beat it (beat it)..." The final five (barely audible) seconds of the album version are omitted: "...beat it (beat it), no one wants to be deafeated..."
Edited by Brian W. on 24 July 2005 at 12:17am
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 24 July 2005 at 8:11am | IP Logged
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For anyone who has a copy of Essential...
Is "In the Closet" the only 45 version on this 2-CD set that's not an edit of the LP version? In other words, I'm wondering if nothing but LP version masters were used for this compilation other than the one exception?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 24 July 2005 at 9:22am | IP Logged
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No, "Another Part Of Me" is not an edit of the LP version---it's a remix. "Black Or White" is slightly different than the LP version right at the beginning. Supposedly, the version of "Dirty Diana" is a remix, but I've never compared the LP version with the one on Number Ones or Essential.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 24 July 2005 at 9:53am | IP Logged
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The true 45 edits/mixes on "Essential" are:
Don't Stop Till You Get Enough (actually, they just faded this one to match the 45 length, but they did a really good job)
Rock With You
Another Part of Me
In the Closet
Dirty Diana
Black or White
You Are Not Alone
Who Is It
Will You Be There
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aaronk
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I have a question about "The Way You Make Me Feel." On the Bad cd, does this include the same mix as the 45 version, but just longer. There's been so much typed on this subject, I can't keep it all straight. I seem to recall someone saying that the same thing happended with this track as "Rock With You." They replaced the original mix with the "remix" used for the 45, but it is the unedited remix on the Bad cd. Is that correct?
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: michael jackson 2 cd essential
