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sriv94
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| Posted: 12 November 2014 at 7:15am | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
What Ed sent me matches the 45
here.
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Indeed. So it's the short 45 that has the drum underneath the "Her name was Lola" lyric, while the "Even Now" vinyl LP version does not (and it
runs six seconds longer, with two extra "Copacabana" background vocals near the end).
Good. Thanks, John! (And Ed!)
Edited by sriv94 on 12 November 2014 at 7:17am
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 12 November 2014 at 7:36pm | IP Logged
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I'm very confused by all this. How many versions of "Copacabana" are there, and how many were done in 1978? Are there two slightly different versions that clock in around 3:48, one with kick drums on the opening "her name is Lola" and one without? And was the 3:48 original 45 version DIFFERENT from the 3:48 original LP version (which was later replaced by the longer disco mix)? And these "Dance Vault" mixes that people are referring to here - were these released (and made) in the '90s or '00s? I believe there were some 1993 remixes of "Copa" (and "Could It Be Magic", too.)
As you can you see, I'm utterly confused now :)
Maybe someone can explain all the different versions and where each one can be found on CD. Thanks.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 12 November 2014 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
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As far as I remember, there were three English versions in 1978--the (3:58) "short" 45 version, the (4:04) "Even Now" vinyl LP version and the (5:46) "long" 45 version (aka the "disco version," which replaced the vinyl LP version on CD copies of "Even Now" and almost every other Barry Manilow hits CD since). (IIRC, the (5:46) version was the B-side of the (3:58) version.)
The "Even Now" vinyl LP version has at least three differences from the short 45--no drum in Barry's opening "Her name was Lola" line, and six more seconds of Lady Flash singing "Copacabana" twice after Manilow's second "don't fall in love" lyric (at about the (3:34) mark). The same drum difference also happens on Barry's "His name was Rico" lyric (present on the 45, not present on the "Even Now" vinyl LP). The mixes are slightly different as well. Otherwise, they're the same. Obviously the long 45 is way different.
The long 45 is the most common version out there. The short 45 can be heard on some pressings of the 1978 "Greatest Hits" CD. The "Even Now" vinyl LP version has not actually appeared in its correct form on CD, but does appear on both the "Madagascar 2" soundtrack and the "Complete Collection And Then Some" box set with the demo version overlapping the opening bongos (the demo version is complete on "Collection" and edited on "Madagascar 2"). You could conceivably graft the opening bongos from the short 45 onto the two (4:04) versions to create the correct "Even Now" LP version, but I'm not sure how different the mix is at that point.
Have little knowledge of the 1993 and "Dance Vault" versions.
Edited by sriv94 on 14 November 2014 at 12:01pm
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 13 November 2014 at 2:59pm | IP Logged
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Wow, that's so interesting. I had no idea there were 2 versions that clocked in around the 4:00 point. I always thought there was just the one, plus the 5:46 long disco version.
So, if I understand you, the short 45 has appeared on a few CDs (like the early pressing of "Greatest Hits" CD), but the original "Even Now" LP version appearing on "Complete Collection" but with its beginning overlapping with the prevous track. What is "Madagascar?" I'm working on a number of Sony Reissue projects including Barry Manilow. Maybe we can get this rare version of "Copa" on one of them. Is there no import that anyone here knows of that has the true original "Even Now" vinyl LP version on CD?
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 13 November 2014 at 4:12pm | IP Logged
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"Madagascar" is the film and OST for the film.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 14 November 2014 at 1:27am | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
So, my question is, was the 2008 Dance Vault radio
download a new edit in an attempt to match the 45?
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Hmm, I wonder if it's an edit of the 4:05 vinyl LP
version in an attempt to match the 45.
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 14 November 2014 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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Still trying to sort through this. Excluding the long disco version for a moment, and concentrating on the shorter versions, the database says this:
(S) (3:54) Intrada 88 O.S.T. Foul Play (this is the short 45 version)
-this seems to be the only CD that has the true 45 version (albeit 3 seconds faded early)
But then for the early version of the 1978 "Greatest Hits" CD, it says this:
(S) (3:58) Arista 8039 Greatest Hits (edited 45 version;
What's the difference between the short 45 version and the "edited" 45 version?
Now, as far as the 4:04 original "Even Now" LP version, this has never appeared on CD in its proper form, because all the 4:04 versions that appear on CD (and there are 4 of them), all have the first 6 seconds incorporating the fade of the previous track (the demo version of "Copa") which overlaps with it. I can understand that "Complete Collection" would have the overlap because it was prefaced with the demo of "Copa" - but this "Summer Breeze" comp and "Madagascar" soundtrack puzzles me. Do they also use the 1:32 demo version on these 2 CDs (preceding the released version of "Copa"), or do they just start cold where "Copa" would normally start but with overdubs of a faded version that doesn't even exist on these CDs? (That must sound weird, if so.)
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aaronk
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| Posted: 14 November 2014 at 11:29am | IP Logged
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVnEfDH_kkE
It appears that "Madagascar 2" soundtrack used the "Complete Collection" CD as its source, so yes, the end of the demo version can be heard fading out over the intro.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 14 November 2014 at 11:57am | IP Logged
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EdisonLite wrote:
But then for the early version of the 1978 "Greatest Hits" CD, it says this:
(S) (3:58) Arista 8039 Greatest Hits (edited 45 version;
What's the difference between the short 45 version and the "edited" 45 version?
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I think it's just semantics with the way Pat made the entries. The only difference between the 1978 "GH" short 45 version and the "Foul Play" OST version is the fade.
Edited by sriv94 on 14 November 2014 at 12:04pm
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 14 November 2014 at 2:28pm | IP Logged
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Not true -- the Intrada versions is faster than the 45 and Greatest Hits version.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 14 November 2014 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
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Pat Downey wrote:
| Not true -- the Intrada versions is faster than the 45 and Greatest Hits version. |
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I stand corrected. However, the (4:04) versions that aren't on the Complete Collection box (and aren't rerecordings) I don't believe should have the "previous selection tracks over the introduction for :06" notation. On Madagascar 2 the previous selection ("Foofie") does not track over the intro of "Copacabana."
And remember, what was on the Even Now vinyl LP isn't what's on the Even Now CD. I'm 99.9% sure the (4:04) versions are the Even Now vinyl LP
version, just with the end of the demo version over the opening. If you took the short 45 opening and grafted it over the first eight seconds of the (4:04) versions,
you'd essentially have the correct version of the vinyl LP.
Edited by sriv94 on 14 November 2014 at 8:07pm
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davidclark
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| Posted: 16 November 2014 at 8:28am | IP Logged
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To EdisonLite, yes the Madagascar 2 soundtrack version does sound
weird, listening to the song starting like that. Just goes to show you how
sloppy and unknowledgeable most CD compilers are. Granted, this song
has had a very complex release history that only the members of this
board can get to the bottom of!
To sriv94, yes if you graft the beginning of the 45 over the first six
seconds of the "weird" version, you can essentially make the "Even
Now" LP version. I did that the other day. I now have the version that I
have been missing since the 70s (and remember hearing back then).
Edited by davidclark on 16 November 2014 at 8:29am
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 16 November 2014 at 11:09am | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
To sriv94, yes if you graft the beginning of the 45 over the first six
seconds of the "weird" version, you can essentially make the "Even
Now" LP version. I did that the other day. I now have the version that I
have been missing since the 70s (and remember hearing back then). |
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But rather than taking the beginning from vinyl, couldn't you take the first six seconds from CD - from the 3:48 single version that appears on some CDs - and graft that on to the "4:04 weird version" in place of the "Overlap" section? Wouldn't you then have the original LP version fully from CD? Or does the 1st 6 seconds of the "original LP short version" differ from the 1st 6 seconds of the "short 45" version? (I thought the only differences were the drums under the "Her name was Lola" verse parts, and the extra vocals at the end of the song due to the longer fadeout.
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davidclark
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| Posted: 16 November 2014 at 6:13pm | IP Logged
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sorry EdisonLite, i wasn't specific enough. I should have typed "short
45". Yes, I used the first few seconds from the Greatest Hits CD that
features the short 45 version.
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sriv94
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| Posted: 16 November 2014 at 7:04pm | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
sorry EdisonLite, i wasn't specific enough. I should have typed "short
45". Yes, I used the first few seconds from the Greatest Hits CD that features the short 45 version. |
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And to be further technical, I clocked it at about 8.5 - 9 seconds instead of six before the cowbell/triangle/glockenspiel/whatever it is comes in. Easier to
make a clean edit from there instead of trying to figure out where the demo version falls out (and my file still ends up at (4:05)).
Edited by sriv94 on 16 November 2014 at 7:14pm
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 17 November 2014 at 10:12am | IP Logged
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Thanks.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 22 November 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged
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Managed to hear a few Manilow LPs on vinyl.
Discovered that the original pressing of the 1978
Greatest Hits on CD exactly matches the double LP
from 1978, right down to the spoken word ("Fabulous"?) at
the end of the live version of "Daybreak". "Copacabana"
is the 5:46 disco version on that LP and on the first
pressings (non-RE-1) of the CD.
Got to hear a rerelease of the Even Now vinyl LP,
with an RE-1 in the matrix number. It has the 5:46 disco
version of "Copacabana".
These are not essential details, but I wanted to post
them somewhere before I forget them.
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KentT
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Yes, the 5:46 Disco version of "Copacabana" replaced the
original LP version from second pressings of the "Even
Now" LP from then on to the end of vinyl.
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EdisonLite
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I've read through the 2 Copacabana threads and my head is spinning quite a bit. I'm doing research on unreleased (to digital & CD) Barry Manilow versions - for Sony. Excluding the 5:46 version from this conversation (as it's easily available), I'm confused about the 3:48 and 4:04 versions. Some CDs have the demo version overlapping with the intro. Pat says the Intrada version is faster. I know one version isn't a fade of the other, as was stated here once. (One version has 2 extra "Copa" lines by Lady Flash, more drums on 2 opening verse lines, and a slightly different mix). So which of the following 2 versions are available on CD (or iTunes) in their proper mixes, without a demo version over the intro, no wrong tempos (and if so, what CDs):
3:48 single version
4:04 original "Even Now" LP version
For some reason, I can't access the song when I get into Pat's database. Have the 2 versions been released on CD/digitally without any problems? :)
Edited by EdisonLite on 24 October 2018 at 12:49am
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EdisonLite
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OK, I just accessed the database - but I also noticed that Barry did a re-recording of this song for a CD called "Songs in the Key of Red". Apparently, there are 5 other top 40 hits on the CD, but this one is the only re-recording. I had no idea Barry ever re-recorded one of his hits years later. That's something he rarely does. Does anyone know anything about this, like is this done in a country style, for example? I wonder what the "key of red" refers to.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Barry Manilow-"Copacabana"
