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Cash Box chart question |
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Brian W. ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 13 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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I agree. Especially with revelations in recent years that the director of the Billboard charts in the late 1970s/early '80s, Bill Wardlow, flat-out accepted bribes to get a record on the chart. (Wardlow was fired by Billboard in 1983, apparently, over his chart-fixing.) Ran across this tidbit online. The info is apparently taken from a book, though I'm not sure which one:
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jimct ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 07 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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This is a theory meant for entertainment purposes only. Please treat it like
a UFO sighting. I think I saw something in the late 70s, but I am not sure. First off, I am not looking to sling mud on any person, or any trade magazine here. (I also ask my friend Paul Haney for permission to cite some "menusha chart specifics", from my RR books. I try to do this only rarely. But, to me, citing some specific chart-run-facts handy here is necessary to my theory. There are many reasons why I always buy all the RR books - the info it provided me here is just the latest instance why I'm so glad I do. So whether BB or CB is your trade mag choice, RR, Mr. Whitburn & Paul Haney now hook us up either way!) :) Brian, I really enjoyed your last post. I found Al Coury's "four #1 BB 45s in a row written by Barry Gibb" mission totally fascinating. It was all new information to me. And it really helped me to better understand the extremely unusual hit journey of the second of the 4 songs, and 4th in the 6-string of consecutive RSO #1s (How Deep Is Your Love/Baby Come Back/Stayin' Alive/(Love Is) Thicker Than Water/Night Fever/If I Can't Have You): Andy Gibb's "(Love Is) Thicker Than Water". It's always puzzled me. His first single, "I Just Want To Be Your Everything" debuted in April, was a 4-week #1 in July/August in the summer of 1977. Million seller. It spent over 30 weeks on the Hot 100. His debut LP, "Flowing Rivers" came out in July '77. Trust me when I say that it is highly unusual for the all-important second single, for a new hit act, to not come until 3 months after the first hit has peaked, and is on the way down the charts. Even more so when the follow-up track (....Thicker....) has already been long ready to go, just sitting there on his album. Finally, it debuts on 11/5/77, and at a way- less-than-impressive #89. During the final 8 weeks of 1977, here's the song's Hot 100 progress: 78-67-53-43-39-37-32. In 12/77, one month after "...Thicker..." comes out on 45, "Stayin' Alive" does the same. To no one's surprise, the latter quickly flies up the chart, replacing RSO's "Baby Come Back", and begins its 4-week run at #1 on 2/4/78. And guess which 45 debuts on BB in that very same issue? "Night Fever". It's in the Top 20 just two weeks later, the Top 10 the next, and begins its 8-wk run at #1 just 3 weeks later, on 3/18/78. It turns out that there was just a two-chart-week window between the two Bee Gees #1 hits from SNF - 3/4/78 and 3/11/78. It's safe to say that RSO knew that Night Fever" would hit #1 BB, 6 weeks after its 45 release, from the moment they put it out. It was very unusual to see another Bee Gees 45 be put out as soon as "Night Fever" was. "Stayin' Alive" was nowhere near over yet. It had just started its full month at #1. But can you say "RSO Master Plan?". And can you say "could we (RSO) possibly thread the needle?" Let's go back to "...Thicker...". Historically, the first week of a new year is an especially good time to successfully promote tracks to radio. In part, because "superstar" releases were always issued in time for holiday consumer buying. And it was coming off of the only, generally accepted "It's OK to freeze your station playlist for a week or two" time of the year: Christmas/New Years'. So it was always a major week for all in the industry, to get "back to the grind". Only a handful of "secondary" Top 40 stations had added "...Thicker..." in its first 9, 1977 weeks (in Idaho, S Carolina, Hawaii, for example.) Looks like just barely enough stations played it for the song to keep its essential BB "bullet", which was usually around a 10-place upward move, if below the Top 40. Check back to the end of my fourth paragraph for its progression. That's exactly what happened. Once 1978 began, the song had just finally cracked the Top 40. Suddenly, markets like Detroit, Kansas City, Washington DC, and Hartford/Springfield kicked in, and finally added the now over two-month old 45. Why now? Why not earlier? Didn't radio know who Andy Gibb was until then? Not likely. All I do know for sure is that all it would take for stations to *not* add a record that week would be if the RSO rep would say to us "You know, _____, we're just not 100% sure about the Andy Gibb record yet. Hey, you and I are friends. And I'd hate to ask you for an add on it until I'm totally sure." Now record reps were usually a million % behind every single song they wanted us to add that week. But they also knew that it helped their credibility with us if, on occasion, they'd share some "off the record" info with us. (wink wink.) Even though it was 100% a game, at both ends. Labels want to sell records the most. Radio wants high ratings the most. So we both always tried to co-exist, as cordially as possible, all the while knowing that we have very different ultimate goals. Bottom line? They needed us, and we needed them. During January of 1978, "....Thicker...." had begun on BB at #32, and ended it at #10. And now I'm hearing it move up big on AT40 each week. And on my favorite Hartford Top 40 station as well. But, by 2/1/78, the song has still not been added at my station. I was a bit surprised. Now, I had only just started interning there then. And I had very little, if any, contact with the music department. All I was trying to do was to make a good impression. They had no idea then, that I was basically a walking Top 40 music encyclopedia, collector, and deep historian of the station, as best as I could be, being just a 20-year-old, loyal listener. I also remembered that the station had also never played another recent hit on RSO, 1976's "Love So Right", for reasons still unknown. And were extremely late to add RSO's "Disco Duck", as well. Well, as always, I tuned in to the on-air reveal of the new, weekly Top 30 survey. Wednesday nights, at 7PM. Guess what song debuts that week (2/5/78) at the unheard-of, high position of #14? You guessed it. "(Love Is) Thicker Than Water". More than three months after it first came in. By 2/1/78, with "...Thicker..." now in the national Top 10, I'll bet the # of remaining, BB-reporting Top 40 "holdouts", that had still not added the song, were in single digits. So why do I get this feeling in my gut, that earlier this very same week, RSO's Al Coury had asked his secretary for a list of stations where "...Thicker..." was either not being played at all yet, or was "underperforming", as to its low ranking on a survey. (This info would be easily "gettable" for a guy in Coury's position.) As a reporting station, my local station surely appeared on it. Then, within just a couple of days, the record is suddenly added at #14. After it had been collecting dust there for more than 3 months? Now I am not privy to anything that happened with the song that week, between our then-MD and the station's RSO record rep. All I can say is that RSO must've made a *very* persuasive case to the MD/PD! I honestly have no recollection. I was still in college, and really wasn't there all that much yet. But I can surely see something like a "free Saturday Night Fever soundtrack giveaway weekend", or even Andy Gibb himself calling in for a quick, on-air "phoner", as things RSO could've dangled at us, in exchange for a quick, sky-high "...Thicker..." add. Especially if RSO is trying to "thread the needle", and position the song as a viable #1 BB candidate in between a possible "Stayin' Alive" and "Night Fever" #1 gap, just 5-6 weeks later. And while that Wardlow guy at BB could surely get away with some chart liberties outside the Top 10, even he would have to know, at least back in 1978, that when he ranked a song as #1, he'd better have both the nationwide station airplay and sales data to justify it to his bosses. Hey, I'm certainly not trying to throw my own station under the bus here. I'm sure any other straggler Top 40 stations got a similar "impassioned" call from RSO. All history now shows us is that "(Love Is) Thicker Than Water" did manage to occupy the #1 spot for both of the two weeks between "Stayin' Alive" and "Night Fever". Neither "...Thicker..." nor "If I Can't Have You" seems to have had reached #1 on more than a handful of local station surveys, based on info I can browse now. So that may have been why Coury wanted to take advantage of every in-person meet-up he could possible get with Wardlow, at this key time for his label, and for his immediate #1 goal, if you will.... Thanks for indulging my wild imagination. A little numerical data can be a very dangerous thing! :) Edited by jimct |
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musicmanatl ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 22 June 2011 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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This is such a great discussion! I think the reason that many of us regard the Billboard charts as definitive is because those were the only charts that we had access to for a very long time. However (as was noted earlier), how we can be certain that the Billboard charts were the most accurate? We each were only able to listen to the top 40 stations in our local market, which may or may not have reflected the same amount of popularity as Billboard's weekly charts. Was "Sail On" really a #1 hit and "Pop Muzik" wasn't? We'll never really know. All we can tell now is what the consensus of the three weekly charts was.
As I read Jim's projection about "(Love Is) Thicker Than Water" and "If I Can't Have You", I had to laugh at my reaction. I'm just so used to thinking of them as #1 records that it's almost difficult to think of them as making #1 because of favors or money. I heard both records so often in Cleveland that they seemed like #1 records - or does my memory think I heard them that often because I have known they were #1 hits in Billboard for the past 35 years? Thanks for all of these thoughtful comments! |
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musicmanatl ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 22 June 2011 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Oh, and thanks, 80smusicfreak, for the tip about the highest charting song in Cash Box that didn't chart in Billboard (not including the Wayne Newton oddity). I've never heard of it before, but I'm going to seek it out now. Very interesting...
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AndrewChouffi ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 24 September 2005 Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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To Jim:
Great story featuring the late Al Coury! Even Paul McCartney has extolled the virtues of Mr. Coury's promotional strategies, as Al was to become very involved in the promotion of LP 'Band On The Run' and its latter two singles. Coury was of course one of the top national promo guys at Capitol before he became a principal at RSO. (Search YouTube for the interviews.) John Lennon was apparently also impressed with Coury's handiwork; Coury helped create a #1 & a #9 (Dream) off of Lennon's 'Walls And Bridges'. Andy |
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cmmmbase ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 04 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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The Wayne Newton song "The (Elvis) Letter" (the way it is
titled on the cd) is on the promotional cd single Curb 1008. |
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Paul C ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 23 October 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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In The Billboard Book Of Number 1 Hits, Fred Bronson quotes comments made to Dick Clark by Andy Gibb himself about the chart progress of "(Love Is) Thicker Than Water":
"It slowed down...we were all a little scared. There's lots of points where all the record people at RSO said they were a little worried that it was stopping. It didn't lose its bullet, but it really heavily lost its jump in sales activity. And then, for an equally strange reason, it just picked up and nothing stopped it. So it was not predictable..." |
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Paul Haney ![]() Music Fan ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 April 2005 Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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The problem with Cash Box in the late 1980s/early 1990s is the songs that were obviously hits that didn't even make their Top 100 chart. Some examples: "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" by Spin Doctors, "Nothin' To Hide" by Poco and "You Could Be Mine" by Guns N' Roses (although that one, at least, hit #104 on the "Looking Ahead" chart).
Speaking of the "Looking Ahead" charts, we're now done with the weekly research and will be putting the new book together. Hopefully it'll be out this summer. There are well over 3,500 non-Billboard hits from that chart and yes, we're including EVERYTHING that peaked on that chart, not just those non-BB hits. BTW, "Walkin' The Fence" by Couchois also hit #85 in Record World. Edited by Paul Haney |
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