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Tommy James/Shondells-"Crimson And..."

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crapfromthepast View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crapfromthepast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 2:59pm
A strange history for this song.

Mono 45 version (printed 3:23)

Released in Nov 1968, according to Wikipedia.

The commercial 45 was mono, and as far as I can tell from Discogs, the promo 45s did not include a stereo side.

The mono 45 appears on just one CD: Collectors' Choice Music's 40 Years - The Complete Singles Collection (1966-2006) (2008), where it runs 3:19.

Stereo LP version (printed 5:26)

Released in Dec 1968, according to Wikipedia.

According to Wikipedia, radio stations suggested that the group create a longer version of the song. They did just that.

The LP version adds a few seconds of studio chatter at the beginning of the song: "I'm just gonna fool around man like just do a thing you know whatever and I'll just you know."

The LP follows the structure of the 45 from 0:08 to 2:05 (corresponds to 0:00 to 1:56 of the 45).

The LP version replaces the guitar section from 1:56 to 2:22 of the 45 with a new solo from 2:05 to 4:30 on the LP version.

The LP version then returns to the structure of the 45 at 4:30 (2:22 on the 45), and follows the structure of the 45 to the end of the 45, and a bit longer (it's just instrumental at this point).

Unfortunately, the new spliced-in solo had a severe speed error, and was significantly slower than the portion before it. This speed error caused the splice at 2:05 of the LP version to be one of the most painful splices ever in the history of recorded music. It's unbelievable. If Tommy James was looking for trippy psychedelia, he certainly got it!

For all the stereo LP versions on CD, the speed error is corrected. (Info from the database; I don't have any of the stereo LP versions from a CD source.)

For all the LP versions in mono on CD, the speed error is left intact. I have what I think is a fake-stereo (E) version of the LP version (faded 14 second early) on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 4 1968 (1987). The jarring edit is intact at 1:56. Amazing.

Non-hit 1989 edit of LP version (3:23)

For the 1989 release of Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1969, either the true mono 45 was either unavailable, or Rhino wanted a stereo version of the 45 (which didn't exist).

So, Bill Inglot (or another Rhino engineer) edited the stereo LP version to attempt to match the structure of the 45. It was a really good attempt, using the guitar break from 1:11 to 1:28 of the LP version (1:04 to 1:20 of the 45) and some clever editing to replace the missing parts of the 45 (1:56 to 2:22). Close, but not perfect.

The same analog transfer as Billboard is used on:
  • Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 7 1969 (1991) - swaps the left and right channels and fades about two seconds early; avoid
  • Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 1 1969 (1991) - this disc is a repackaging of Superhits Vol. 7 1969 (1991) , so it, too, swaps the left and right channels and fades about two seconds early; avoid
Stereo 45 version (3:26)

The 45 didn't exist in stereo in 1969, when the song was a hit. The 1989 edit of the stereo LP version was as close as one could get without access to the multi-track tapes...

...until later in 1989, when Rhino acquired the Roulette catalog. Problem solved! (Thanks to Bill Cahill for posting this detail above back in 2012.) Bill Inglot (or another Rhino engineer) created a new (meaning, 1989) stereo mix of the true 45 take from the multi-track tapes.

You can tell that the panning doesn't quite match the LP mix. On the stereo LP mix, the vocals are panned hard right and everything else is panned hard left. On the new stereo 45 mix, some of the instruments are present in the right channel. Listen at 0:04 - bass and drums are present in the right channel starting on a downbeat at 0:04 in the new stereo 45 mix, but are completely absent from the right channel in the stereo LP mix.

The new stereo mix first appeared on Rhino's Tommy James Anthology (1989). The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Rhino's promotional Incredible Collections Wheel Of Knowledge (1991, PRO2 90081) - digitally exactly 0.48 dB quieter
  • Rhino's Tommy James Very Best Of (1993) - digitally identical
  • Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1969 (1993 rerelease; note that the 1988 original release of this disc had the edit of the stereo LP version)
  • Varese Sarabande's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 1 (1997) - digitally exactly 0.48 dB quieter
My recommendations

For the mono 45 version, go with Collectors' Choice Music's 40 Years - The Complete Singles Collection (1966-2006) (2008).

For the stereo LP version, all the versions on CD fixed the speed error. I can't really recommend the (E) version of the LP version faded early, which is all I have on CD.

For the stereo 45 version (knowing that it was created in 1989), go with Rhino's Tommy James And The Shondells Anthology (1989) if you want a single-artist CD, or Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1969 (1993 rerelease) if you want a multi-artist compilation.

For the non-hit 1989 edit of the LP version, if you must have it, go with Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1969 (original 1989 release).
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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TallPaulInKy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TallPaulInKy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2020 at 9:37am
There is a new Complete Roulette recordings of Tommy
James which claims to include:
CRIMSON AND CLOVER (45 RADIO VERSION) (Roulette 7028)

Was there a separate radio edit?
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eriejwg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eriejwg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2020 at 9:54am
Will the new collection finally contain the proper 45
version of Mony Mony? Any info on stereo vs. mono content
or songs with proper lengths and fades?
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Brian W. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2020 at 2:17am
Originally posted by eriejwg eriejwg wrote:

Will the new collection finally contain
the proper 45 version of Mony Mony? Any info on stereo
vs. mono content or songs with proper lengths and fades?


No info like that yet. It doesn't come out till Jan.
29th.
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