a couple of Turtles comments
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Topic: a couple of Turtles comments
Posted By: davidclark
Subject: a couple of Turtles comments
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 6:15pm
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thanks for your responses as usual Pat.
I listened to "Elenore" and can't find a difference bewteen the stereo and mono versions. What makes them LP vs. 45 version (other than the mix)? Also on "You Showed Me", I believe this warrants versioning, as the stereo (from Rhino Greatest Hits, assuming this is the stero LP version) is longer and has drums before the :11 second mark. The mono (from Sunshine Days Pop Classics of the '60s Volume 1, assuming that's the 45) is shorter and does not have the drums (or it's so buried I can't hear it). ------------- dc1 |
Replies:
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 9:14pm
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From my notes, Elenore is classified as a 45 version due to the difference in reverb between the 45 and LP.
Now for the song "You Showed Me", I don't hear drums prior to :11 on the stereo version but I do hear a hi hat prior to :11 on the stereo versions. When I fold the stereo down to a mono signal I lose the hi hat completely in the resulting mix so I will toss this one out to other chat board members as to what they think about this issue. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 10:05pm
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That's very interesting, Pat. Here's what I can share about why this phenomenon happens...
Imagine you have two identical, mono wave sound files. On one of the sound files, you invert the waveform. In other words, since the wave has an axis that it continually crosses back and forth over, you can "flip it vertically" over the axis (so that anything on top of the axis is now on the bottom). What happens when you sum the two wave sound files together (one inverted and one not) is that they cancel each other out. Of course, I'm talking in terms of how we view it on a computer screen, but the same thing happens when you reverse the negative and positive wires of an audio cable. If you have the exact same audio going throuh two channels, except that one is hooked up in reverse, and then you sum the audio together (in other words, mono it), the result is that they cancel each other. In the case of this song, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is that the hi-hat, which was in both channels, somehow got inverted in one channel. (Perhaps the sound engineer had the positive and negative wires reversed in one channel when mastering the hi-hat.) Therefore, when you fold down the two channels, they cancel each other out. I'm no sound engineer, so this may not be the case, but it's at least what I do know about why sounds can mysteriously disappear when stereo is folded down to mono. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 13 May 2006 at 9:45pm
| You Showed Me was not mixed well in stereo. I think all the instruments are there on both versions, it's just that the mono mix sounds significantly better sonically. Has more punch. Probably doesn't deserve a "single version" mention. Elenore does because of the gobs of reverb added to the single. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 12:29pm
| I had a chance to listen to both the original White Whale 45 copy of "Happy Together" and the version that shows up on CD in mono on Varese's Best Of compilation. While I cannot remember which one is the faster of the two, there is a significant pitch difference between the 45 and CD versions, even though it's the same mix. There is currently no notation in the database regarding this CD, but a pitch comment should probably be added. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 2:43pm
| Aaron, my commercial 45 for "Happy Together" has a listed time of (2:50), but an actual time of (2:56). |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 6:29pm
| On Happy Together I've noticed at on the mono hits lp that there is very little reverb on the song, at all, until the couple of piano notes after "invest a dime". Those piano notes are almost buried in reverb. So that's significantly different than the stereo mixes. I don't have the original 45 though to hear if that matches with the mono LP version. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 7:14pm
| Is this a song that deserves a "45 version" and "LP version" designation because of reverb? Given Jim's information, it would appear that the 45 runs slower than the mono version on Varese. |
Posted By: PaulEschen
Date Posted: 27 August 2016 at 3:51am
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Has anybody else bought the most recent Turtles CD release, All The
Singles (FloEdCo/Manifesto MFO 48040)? It sounds great, but the only Turtles 45 I have to compare is "She'd Rather Be With Me", but it sounds the same, with the shorter 2:08 time. I'd be interested to see how the other pertinent singles match up. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 27 August 2016 at 8:28pm
On my copy of Varese Vintage's "Then:Totally Oldies 4", the stereo "Happy Together" runs an actual time of 2:52. On the new mono "All The Singles", it runs and actual time of 2:54. Just thought i'd throw that out there. ------------- |
jimct wrote:Posted By: PaulEschen
Date Posted: 28 August 2016 at 4:22am
| You mean 2:54? |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 August 2016 at 5:17pm
I'll correct that error. ------------- |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 08 February 2020 at 11:51pm
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I have two different stock copies of It Ain't Me Babe
on White Whale (one listed as WW 222, the other just as 222). Both have a listed time of 2:10. WW 222 is a styrene pressing pressed at Columbia's Terre Haute, Indiana (CTH) pressing plant. It runs 2:11. The other is a vinyl pressing with a monarch stamp and delta number 57574 in the deadwax. This pressing runs slightly slower at 2:13. Putting the two side by side digitally, they run out of sync almost immediately. They both fade at the same spot in the song, so the time difference is only the pitch, with the vinyl pressing running slightly slower. ---- My promotional copy of Happy Together, White Whale WW 244, is a Monarch pressing, double A side copy, with delta 64971 in the deadwax. It lists the time as 2:50 but runs 2:54. I do not have a CTH pressing to compare it against. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 13 February 2020 at 3:37pm
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There is more than one stereo mix of "Happy Together".
The original LP, a remix made in the 80s, and an alternate remix that snuck out (perhaps by accident) on a recent Manifesto Records vinyl reissue of the Happy Together album. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |