Elton John - Your Song
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Printed Date: 05 May 2025 at 12:39am
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Topic: Elton John - Your Song
Posted By: davidclark
Subject: Elton John - Your Song
Date Posted: 16 May 2016 at 10:54pm
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I have two stereo mixes of this track - one with the drum track split left and
right (my source: "Elton John" - remastered 1999, w/ Bonus Tracks), the other with it in the centre (my source: "Greatest Hits" 1987 CD issue of 1974 LP). Anyone know which is the original (I suspect the split version) and when the remix first appeared (I suspect on 1974 "Greatest Hits" LP)? ------------- dc1 |
Replies:
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 17 May 2016 at 6:35am
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To davidclark:
I don't know the answer to your question, but I pulled out my old vinyl copies of both US albums and they BOTH have Barry Morgan's drums panned thusly: Snare to the left, hi-hat to the center, kick to the right. Andy |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 17 May 2016 at 6:45am
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Thanks, Andy. My vinyl copy of "Greatest Hits" is long gone, so I am glad to
know you have one. So, maybe the remix came in the CD era. ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 17 May 2016 at 2:37pm
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The 95/96 reissues were all remixed by Gus Dudgeon from the master tapes; though he tried to remain loyal to the original mixes there are subtle changes. This may date the change.
Wish we had the mono 45 mix available. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 17 May 2016 at 8:00pm
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David, that remix you describe with the drums in the
center dates back the to the 1983 European album "The Superior Sound Of Elton John 1970-1975" on DJM records. I bought it on import vinyl in 1985. The top of the cover says "remixed from the original multi-tracks into a new dimension of sound." Later on a buddy graciously burned me a copy of the CD. Some of these remixes have since leaked onto other CD's..particularly "Daniel" which was presented in its original form, without the re-editing that was done for the hit release. I didn't know "Your Song" also appeared elsewhere. The sound quality is amazing but overly "crisp" .. they really topped out the hi-end, I think to demonstrate how well these tracks were engineered. I particularly enjoy the remix of "Funeral For a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding." RE: Your Song MONO 45 mix .. this should have been a bonus track on the album re-issue. Thanks to Jim I only just recently heard the mono mix for the first time. It's quite different! The strings are mixed differently and the most noticeable thing is added reverb on his voice. Then starting with the words "I sat on the roof" .. they cranked the reverb up to high so it has a very "60's" feel to it. That now leaves me curious about his other few mono 45's. My next one to seek out will be "Tiny Dancer". [Edit: thanks to Jim I now know "Tiny Dancer" had no mono mix, not even on the promo... so nothing to report there] MM |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 18 May 2016 at 12:23pm
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I notice that the database listing for this song doesn't show any version
designations. I take it the policy is that the mono/stereo difference between a 45 and a LP version (especially between 1968 and 1975 when it happened all the time) doesn't warrant a note in the database. But the mono 45 version here has a ton of reverb compared to the stereo LP version as well. Just curious where the line is on LP/45 version designations when the primary difference is mono vs stereo, but there's no different vocals or instrumentation. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 20 May 2016 at 10:57am
| This "Your Song" issue was just called to my attention recently and after comparing the mono 45 vs the stereo LP I do detect some noticeable reverb on the 45 so after mulling over whether this should be a LP mix or LP version for several days now I have decided to classify every entry as LP version. Like Mark, I am surprised that this song has yet to appear in the mono 45 version on compact disc yet. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 21 May 2016 at 4:29am
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I believe that the song "Friends" has similar
differences. The mono 45 features reverb not heard on the stereo mix. Although the stereo mix had OTHER problems. The parent album was screwed up, it sounds like for the movie soundtrack "Friends", Paramount (the label) didn't notice that the song was recorded with dolby.. so the LP mix sure sounds like the result of a recording mastered WITHOUT the decoding. Very splashy with odd compression. This was corrected in the CD era. If this warrants further discussion we can start a "Friends" string, I didn't find one. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 21 May 2016 at 5:09am
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To Bill Cahill:
The stereo version of "Friends" with the undecoded Dolby WAS actually issued in the US in 1985 on the MCA Elton John CD 'Love Songs'. Sounding terrible, but reasonably faithful to the Paramount vinyl. The first issue of the song "Friends" in the US with properly decoded Dolby was on the CD 'Rare Masters' released in 1992. Andy |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 May 2016 at 5:10am
The Gus Dudgeon remasters were not remixed. This was in the liner notes for all of them: "All the tapes used to create these new masters are the original mixes. However, due to the fact that many of the tapes are at least 25 years old, they have been "softened up" to varying degrees. So, the sound has been passed through the most up to date digital processing equipment, at 20 Bit Resolution; namely The Sadie Digital System and Prism Super Noise Shaper. The effect is purely to "enhance" rather than "colour" the sound." |
Indy500 wrote:Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:12am
rephrase this question...does the lack of a version designation in instances where the LP was in stereo but the 45 was in mono indicate that the mono version of the 45 is merely a fold-down of the stereo version? Or is that not necessarily the case? |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 9:20am
| I do not use a "version" designation unless there is a rather significant mix or instrumentation difference between the LP and 45 version. A good example is the "Your Song" situation where I felt there was significant enough reverb added to the 45 to warrant a 45 version comment. Of course now you are going to ask how I define "significant" and there are no hard and fast rules that I apply -- it is always subjective. Are you an attorney by trade by any chance? |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 1:45pm
You're right about that quote but I swear I remember an interview in ICE magazine with Gus that he went back to the master tapes and, using his original mixing notes, mixed the albums again. I can tell you that the live album Here An There has small differences like the kid yelling "Elton" at the beginning of Funeral For A Friend almost disappearing from the CD remaster. Anyway I'd bet "The Superior Sound of Elton John" is actually the source of the alternate mix of Your Song. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 3:33pm
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I agree that "Your Song" was lifted from "The Superior Sound of Elton John" for the Elton John Greatest Hits CD. The original Elton
John Greatest Hits vinyl was equalized very hot on the high end, and that master was probably deemed unacceptable for CD release. My money is on Steve Hoffman (although not credited) mastering "Greatest Hits", and he grabbed the "Superior Sound" mix of "Your Song", just like he did with "Daniel" on that Dunhill compilation. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 3:52pm
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Any idea if his 2 other Uni songs, "Levon" and "Tiny
Dancer" were dedicated mono mixes? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 4:21pm
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John, Mark edited his post above to add that no mono version exists for "Tiny Dancer," even on the promo 45. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 May 2016 at 4:27pm
We all wish it were that simple! Unfortunately, there are many cases in the database where a dedicated mono mix does not prompt a "45/LP version" designation if there is no "significant difference" (which is, as Pat says, at his subjective conclusion) between the mono and stereo. In a nutshell, there has to be something added to or subtracted from the mix, or an edit within the song, to get a "version" designation. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 24 May 2016 at 4:43am
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Levon is clearly a dedicated mono mix on the 45. But I don't hear anything that is added or missing in the 45 mix in comparison to the stereo mix. The
single features the piano boosted here and there, as well as other instruments adjusted up and down, it's a more aggressive mix in general which gives the single more "punch". No extra reverb. Anyone want to start an Elton singles thread? |
Posted By: Fastphilly
Date Posted: 24 May 2016 at 10:25am
I have a good many of EJ's promo 45's and the Uni promos I have are all stereo. Though my "Tiny Dancer" does contain a shorter edit that I believe to be promo only. The only mono promo I have is "Crocodile Rock" b/w Elderberry Wine" both sides are mono. Ever stock copy I have seen are mixed in stereo |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 24 May 2016 at 1:16pm
You must be missing some of his UNI promo 45s then, Fastphilly, because although both my U.S. promo 45s for "Border Song" (UNI 55246; BB #92, 8/70) and the earlier U.S. 45 issue for it, (as Congress 6022, in 4/70) both state and are stereo, "Friends" (UNI 55277) and "Levon" (UNI 55314) are both in mono. UNI stock 45s for all three songs mentioned in this paragraph were issued in mono. Also, mono on at least one promo 45 side were included on the non-UNI promos "Lady Samantha" (DJM 70008) (12/68) & (Congress 6017) (3/70) and "From Denver To L.A." (Viking 1010) (5/70). And although "Crocodile Rock" (MCA 40000) is the only mono-only promo 45 that I know of on that label, I do also own mono/stereo MCA promo 45s for "Daniel" (MCA 40046), "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" (MCA 40148), "Step Into Christmas" (MCA 65018), "Bennie And The Jets" (MCA 40198), and "Philadelphia Freedom" (MCA 40364). I have also pulled/checked all my other Elton John MCA promo 45s up to and including 1980 (in addition to the 1975 Polydor PRO-002 promo of "Pinball Wizard"), and they are all stereo only. |
Posted By: Fastphilly
Date Posted: 24 May 2016 at 2:30pm
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Yes I am missing a few of his Uni and Congress promos.
I have only "Tiny Dancer", "Honky Cat" and "Rocket Man". I have most of his MCA promos and none of them contained shorter promo only edits. First time posting on this site. Love it!! |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 24 May 2016 at 6:15pm
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Welcome to the board, Fastphilly. Anyone who collects old promo 45s is OK
in my book! I just wanted to note here that the promo 45 scan for "Tiny Dancer" on 45cat has the listed (3:45) "short version" on one side, and the stock 45 flip, "Razor Face" on the other. Whereas my "Tiny Dancer" promo 45 copy includes short/long versions of the hit side, so two different UNI 55318 promo 45s were pressed up for it back in the day. |
Posted By: Fastphilly
Date Posted: 24 May 2016 at 10:17pm
Thank you Jimct!!! My promo copy has "Razor Face" on the flip. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 10 January 2019 at 10:24pm
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For "Your Song":
Mono version It's a dedicated mix that never showed up on CD. Buy a 45. Stereo version This mix will likely sound wrong to your ears. The drums are panned pretty drastically, in a manner that may not quite feel familiar to you. (I'll explain below.) I don't have the original MCA CD release of Elton John (copyright 1970, original CD release on MCA in 1987), but it's a safe bet that this is the earliest CD release of the original stereo mix of the song. What I do have is Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 2 1971 (1989), where it sounds quite nice. Excellent dynamic range, no clipping, nice EQ, hissy fade, and no hint of noise reduction. Because some later Elton John CDs use this same analog transfer, I would guess that this is likely a digital clone of the original MCA release Elton John, but can't confirm. The same analog transfer is used on:
Non-hit 1983 remix The CD The Superior Sound Of Elton John 1970-1975 (1983) is made up entirely of fresh new mixes from the multi-track tapes. All the tracks sound crisp and clean, but all are modernized in some manner, whether it's increasing the dynamic range, or centering some elements that were more panned in the original mix. Ultimately, you can't really recreate the magic of the original hit mixes, so we'll label this disc as a fantastic-sounding curiosity in the Elton John catalog. "Your Song" was one of the songs on Superior Sound, and the new mix centers the drums, rather than pans them drastically as in the original mix. Amazingly, there are differently EQ'd digital clones of The Superior Sound Of Elton John 1970-1975 on MCA's Greatest Hits (copyright 1984) and Polydor's Greatest Hits (copyright 1974)! Yes, the world's most common Elton John CDs include the non-hit 1983 remix! If the centered-drums version is the one that you're used to hearing, that's almost certainly due to its inclusion on the Greatest Hits CD (originally on MCA, rereleased on Polydor). Oldies radio likely plays the centered-drums version, also because it turned up on Greatest Hits, which all program directors own. I'm kinda shocked that I never realized this, until 48 years after the song was a hit. Others There's a live version that was released as a single in the UK in 1987. It turns up on the West German compilation Hits On CD Vol. 8 (1987, Mercury). There's a demo version on MCA's 4-CD To Be Continued (1990). ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 16 January 2019 at 9:52pm
| I find it fascinating that the mono 45 of Elton John's Your Song has basically been forgotten on CD. We all now seem to accept the stereo version, as it has appeared hundreds of times on comps and Elton John's own collections. Of course if choosing one, there is no comparison, I would much rather hear Your Song in Stereo. |
Posted By: Tom Daly
Date Posted: 05 March 2019 at 8:55pm
The promo 45 of "Tiny Dancer" is an early-faded 3:48 (according to the label) abortion, and the UNI stock single is the same as the LP version with a label time of 6:12. Both are stereo.
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Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 12 January 2025 at 11:55am
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I noticed the database doesn't current notate the presence of the 1983 remix on the Greatest Hits CDs. Can this be changed?
Also a little tidbit, I recently came across a recording I made off air of oldies 107.5 KLDE-FM in Houston from the early 2000s and they were playing the 1983 remix of "Crocodile Rock"(!). ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 16 February 2025 at 10:49am
Glad to see you new here in 2016! ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |