Steve Miller - Jungle Love
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
Forum Name: Chat Board
Forum Description: Chat away but please observe the chat board rules
URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8464
Printed Date: 18 May 2025 at 1:37pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Steve Miller - Jungle Love
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Subject: Steve Miller - Jungle Love
Date Posted: 03 November 2015 at 8:44pm
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I discovered that the (expensive) DCC gold disc version of Greatest Hits 1974-78 has a mastering error on it. The left and right channels are out of synch by about 2 samples. This is enough to screw up the soundstage, and is enough to kill the high end when you sum the left and right tracks to mono.
The ubiquitous Capitol version of Greatest Hits 1974-78 has no such error. The high end remains fully intact when you sum to mono. If you need to look for yourself, zoom in on the waveform for the attack of the very first drum hit, at 0:14.712 on the DCC, and at 0:13.987 on the Capitol. Avoid the DCC for "Jungle Love". ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Replies:
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 03 November 2015 at 9:51pm
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Steve Hoffman mastered the DCC Greatest Hits 1974-78 disc, and he should know better than to let a mastering error like this go out the door.
The gorts on the Steve Hoffman board delete any posts that disparage any DCC discs, so naturally they deleted my post of the above info. I've had it with the Hoffman forum... ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 8:23am
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Dear Mr. Hoffman:
After nearly eleven years and 1,628 posts on your forum, I'm calling it quits. I'm disgusted with the censorship of posts that dare to question the quality of anything affiliated with your name. On a forum dedicated to mastering, on which members routinely debate how two digitally-identical CDs can sound different and cables can require a break-in period, it's tragic that you and your gorts routinely delete posts that deal with actual mastering issues on the Audio Fidelity CDs that you've mastered. I've discovered that AF's version of Stevie Wonder's "Innervisions" uses the same analog transfer as the '80s-era Motown version, with some additional EQ. I've discovered that AF's version of Gerry Rafferty's "City To City" uses the same analog transfer as the '80s-era UK EMI version, with a small EQ adjustment on one track and no EQ adjustment on everything else. I've discovered that "Jungle Love" on AF's version of Steve Miller's "Greatest Hits 1974-78" has a tape azimuth error that desynchronizes the left and right channels by about two samples - enough to screw up the soundstage and wipe out most of the high end when summed to mono. I've discovered that virtually all the tracks on your Razor & Tie collections use the same analog transfers as earlier, existing CDs. Your forum would have provided a perfect outlet to discuss and address these issues in a respectful, highly technical setting. Instead, you've instructed the gorts to shut it all down. So like Jamie Tate and Barry Diament before me, I'm leaving SH.tv. I'll be on the Pat Downey board, where we routinely discuss mastering errors without offending the mastering engineer who committed them. And I'll be on the air, hosting the radio show that I've hosted for nearly twenty-four years, and routinely committing and laughing at my own mistakes. Please deactivate my account. Ron Gerber, crapfromthepast ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 8:43am
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Ron, you're one of the most knowledgeable musicologists on Earth, and I have yet to read a malicious post written by you. It's a sad day when SH.tv has angered you enough to make you leave for good. It most certainly is their loss. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 8:53am
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It just makes me appreciate the healthy environment we've cultivated around here that much more. I'm starting to think this forum is the exception, rather than the rule! ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 9:38am
------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
crapfromthepast wrote:Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 12:13pm
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Ron, as I said on your radio show, this is the most polite forum on the internet. I also can't think of a more knowledgeable group of regulars.
I've read the Hoffman forums from time-to-time and don't know how anyone could possibly keep up, let alone wade through the chaff to get to the wheat. IMO, you've made a wise decision. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 5:24pm
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I'm a little confused, Ron. I was under the impression you sought out the pressings that would sound the worst on the air and thus better represent the name of your show. ;)
I heartily applaud your decision. The first CD I bought with Steve's name on it in the '80s, The Mamas & The Papas - 16 Of Their Greatest Hits should never have been issued with "Creeque Alley" out of phase, although I'll admit to having thoroughly enjoyed hearing the resulting "no vocals" playback on a new format competitor at the time. That CD still gets the occasional "superb" or similar accolade on SHtv, but you'll find nary a mention of that "Creeque Alley" blunder over there. As one of the rare individuals who usually listens to his music collection summed to mono, information like your DCC "Jungle Love" finding matters a great deal. I've seen more than a few posters over there essentially roll their eyes at a number of similar, non-DCC or AF-related glitches you uncovered and posted on SHtv. I did see your "Jungle Love" post last night and knew it was just a matter of time before it "disappeared." Thanks for the great detective work you've done and will continue to share here. It is very much appreciated! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 November 2015 at 6:27pm
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Thanks for all the support here. It's been 9 years and counting for me here, and I consider all of you my music family.
If only our real-world families were this polite and civil! ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 05 November 2015 at 6:09am
I would add the BSN forum to the "polite forums" list. A different crowd and focus than this, but there is some overlap, tends to be very civil and it's rare that threads get deleted. I never joined the Hoffman forum, but will occasionally visit. It never felt very welcoming for whatever reason. |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 05 November 2015 at 10:49am
Probably a good call, Hykker. I got flamed in my very first SH posting for asking about the source of the cover art from Peter Gabriel's "Security" album. And this was in a forum where you could read pages and pages about people discussing their favorite Beatle hairstyle... |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 05 November 2015 at 11:52am
Don't feel bad. I got flamed in one of my very first posts as well, by no less than the host himself, when I expressed surprise that Boz Scaggs' "Jojo" on Cosmopolitan Vol. 5 (1992) was digitally identical to the version on Columbia's Boz Scaggs collection Hits. I asked, doesn't mastering involve a new analog transfer from a master tape? Especially for someone as esteemed as the host himself? After some rude comments to me, he said that it sounded great on Hits, so why duplicate the effort, or something to that effect. I was not impressed. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 05 November 2015 at 12:14pm
Mike, so which is your favorite Beatle hairstyle? ;) I'm glad you brought that up. The Beatles are still my favorite group. There's a Beatles calendar hanging on the wall just above my monitor screen. The Sgt. Pepper's Franklin Mint "keepsake" sits atop the bookshelf next to the monitor and just behind me is the "now available on compact disc" Sgt. Pepper's poster a dealer gave me that I had framed. Sounds like Fabs Central, right? Well, no. I buy wall calendars after Christmas markdowns and clearances and what's typically left are 4,278 assorted cat calendars and one Beatle one. Sgt. Peppers isn't even my favorite Beatles album. I don't play their music all that often anymore, even though I like the band a lot. But good lord, the obsession with that band over on SH is off the charts. It's the musical version of fantasy sports. They've got armchair quarterbacks insisting that this track or that track should have been left off this Beatles album or that Beatles album, when those ships already sailed half a century ago! And yet some of those same people snicker at the attention to detail we pay over here? Whatever. Sorry, I'll get off the soapbox now. Just as soon as I finish canonizing the Monkees. ;) |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 05 November 2015 at 1:26pm
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Let's take a poll to decide which is best pressing for the Monkees theme, sung in Italian...
(That really exists, by the way - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxQcD7DMNlw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxQcD7DMNlw ) ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 05 November 2015 at 2:49pm
| If this was Facebook, I'd be "liking" every post on this thread! |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 06 November 2015 at 1:03am
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I learn a lot more here than I do at SH.tv. ------------- |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 06 November 2015 at 12:00pm
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I've been a member at Hoffman's boards for a few years and have close to 700 posts, but honestly, I've probably opened less than 2% of the threads. There's just too much posted there everyday.
There are some really interesting threads there once in a while - like the one in progress where the guy's playing all of his 45s and posting picture sleeves and label scans - I love stuff like that! I agree about their obsession with the Beatles - it's a bit much. Anytime the Beatles are in a thread it will get 800 views and 100 replies within a few hours, where other threads could sit there for days before anyone responds. Frankly, I'm not impressed. They also have a "for sale" and "wanted" board there - I've posted lists of my wanted 45 and picture sleeves a few times but never had any luck at all. I don't know where all the 45 collectors have gone... |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 06 November 2015 at 7:07pm
------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 07 November 2015 at 3:47pm
I think I need to know where people are buying 45s (and picture sleeves) these days. I know there are record shows, online dealers such as Val Shively and e-bay, but so many places have closed down it's getting harder and harder to find them now. It's frustrating always contacting the same handful of people and they never seem to have the ones you're looking for - they've got to be out there somewhere and I don't know where else to look. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 08 November 2015 at 1:12pm
I hear ya!! All the online dealers I've had good experiences with over the years seem have folded their tents in the last couple years. All I seem to see now is dealers who are asking very high prices for ordinary stuff. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 08 November 2015 at 4:29pm
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Crap,
There is a free plug-in/standalone app I use to correct files that need azimuth correction, and it works great. This will aid you in your projects and to help get your archives in shape. http://www.stereotool.com/download/?1447024768 Try it and tell me what you think. I checked the DCC "Jungle Love" and it is indeed off by about two samples, but I corrected it. ------------- |