GQ - "Disco Nights (Rock-Freak)"
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Topic: GQ - "Disco Nights (Rock-Freak)"
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Subject: GQ - "Disco Nights (Rock-Freak)"
Date Posted: 22 September 2010 at 4:59am
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Not sure if this is in the database; it's not in the 1996 book.
The 3:50 version of this song on 1975 - Only Dance - 1979 is missing the first 8 beats of the song, but otherwise it appears to be based on the same analog transfer used for The Disco Years Vol. 2. This probably warrants a comment in the database of missing the first 8 beats of the 45 and LP version or something to that effect. |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 September 2010 at 10:36am
| The Disco Years and Only Dance CDs have "neither" next to them. In fact, almost all CDs have "neither" next to them, and the ones I've heard have a completely different edit than the 45. Apparently, only Mega-Hits Dance Classics Vol. 3 has the correct version, but it's "considerably faster." I ended up doing my own edit using the LP version as the source. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 22 September 2010 at 6:33pm
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iTunes has the Dance Vault Mixes : Disco Night (Rock Freak) - Single on Arista with both the 45 version at the correct speed plus the longer LP version. BTW, the flip side of the vinyl 45 was GQ's version of A Taste of Honey's "Boogie Oogie Oogie." ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 8:57am
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I did a needle drop of the original Arista 45 and that's
good enough for me. Very interesting how the wrong edit keeps showing up on CD. Since Bill Inglot kind of got the ball rolling on that one, didn't he figure out that he had been using the wrong edit all those years? ------------- |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 9:31pm
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Found my 45 of this track.
It runs 3:55, and 123.2 BPM throughout with no drift (uses a click track). Not only is it a different edit than The Disco Years Vol. 2 (and a very different edit at that - too many differences to name conveniently), it's a different mix, too. For example: on the 45, after 8 beats, there's a "shuck-a-toom" guitar accent, which isn't on the Rhino version. The 45 says "Re-mixed by Jimmy Simpson", so it's possible that the Rhino mix is edited down from the LP mix (a guess). The Rhino disc version also runs 123.2 BPM throughout, so it's the same pitch as the 45, just the wrong mix. The version on Mega Hits Dance Classics Vol. 3 is the 45 mix, but running at 126.5 BPM, or about 2.7% too fast. VERY noticeable pitch difference, and mastered too loud so there's lots of clipping. The fade point is in the right place, but is off by about 6 seconds because of the pitch difference. The version on my copy of Rhino's Phat Trax Vol. 5 runs 7:55 (not the 5:06 listed in the 1996 edition of Pat's book), and also runs at 126.6. Maybe the LP or 12" version ran that fast? This mix seems even emptier than the one on Disco Years, so it can't be edited down to the 45 version. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 10:06pm
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No, the mix is 100% same as the LP version and the wrong
edit. It's those edits that are confusing you. Also, in the old days, a remix was simply the actual mix. In those days, recordings were mixed as they were recorded for economy and out of habit. ------------- |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 11:14pm
I will trust others on the board about the 45 single mix on this one.. however... The version on Phat Tracks is a pretty lousy mix of this recording, and I'm going to take an educated guess that it's the original mix, and that both the hit single mix and hit 12" were remixed by Jimmy Simpson. The rise of disco music in the late 70's led to the rise of D.J.s being hired to remix songs to have greater potential in clubs. This song was a disco hit first, and then crossed over to radio. Months later, a full length album was rush completed and issued, containing the full 12" mix of the title hit. |
The Hits Man wrote:Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 3:50am
Thanks for the heads up on this! I downloaded this version and it sounds 100% correct to my ears. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 8:42am
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The Hits Man is right that the mix is exactly the same as the LP version. I did a careful comparison of the two when creating my own edit to match the 45.
Ron, the reason you don't hear the "shuck-a-toom" guitar accent on the Rhino edit is due to an editing difference of the LP version. The intro on the LP version is probably twice as long (if not longer) as the 45 version, and Rhino has just edited it incorrectly. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 9:55am
You can do whatever you want. Never mind that I grew up with this song, both the 45 and the LP, and was around whe it was riding up the charts.
Thank you, others! :) Steve Sharp, I said nothing about the extended mix, presumably the 12' single. It is apparently not the same as the LP.45 mix. Again, the terminology of "remix" used in the 70s was a bit different than it is today. ------------- |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 29 September 2010 at 10:48pm
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Is there a reason you're being hostile and condescending?
In 1979, I was an avid 16 year old record collector. I was there, too, in whatever "old days" you're talking about. If you wish to dispute any of my experiences or observations or some actual facts, let me know. Methods and usages or remixes have changed, but definition of remix has not. I stand by my post. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 6:22pm
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Steve, I was upset because of how you said you would
trust others meaning "instaed of me". That's why I quoted you. To me, you sounded hostile. I still have the original 45 that I bought in 1979. I also bought the LP soon after that, and know they are the same mix. I cannot speak for the longer version mentioned by someone else. It appears we are the exact, same age, then, and i was also an avid record collector then. The definition of 'remix" has changed. I stand by my post. ------------- |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 30 September 2010 at 11:33pm
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I said I would "trust others" about the single edit, meaning I wasn't commenting about the single version AT ALL, but would take the word of those who had studied it, including yours.
I CAN comment on the 12", the album version (which are the same), as well as the different version that appears on Rhino's Phat Traxx cd series, as I have all of them. How you managed to twist these observations into something offensive to you is beyond me. How has the definition of remix changed? What was it, at what point, and what is it now, according to you? |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 01 October 2010 at 11:03am
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I interpreted your response the way I did because you
quoted me. That's how I connected the dots. But, now that we have both explained our reactions, we can probably dismiss this. I now realize you weren't being insulting, and you know that wasn't either. I also don't think Mr. Downey, or the rest of the forum appreciate this type of exchange. So, anyway, back to the topic. I think we all know now that the 45 and LP versions are the same mix. The differences in the edit most commonly found on CD is neither the 45 or LP version. I now have to seek out the 12 version. ------------- |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 24 July 2012 at 8:43am
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There is a brand new expanded Funky Town Grooves release of the 1979 album Disco Nights which includes all eight LP tracks plus five bonus cuts. This new release (FTG 313) includes the 45 version (at the correct speed), LP version and the 12" version of Disco Nights (Rock Freak). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 27 July 2012 at 2:38pm
Just FYI, i finally got around to upgrading my disc dub of the 45 edit, but alas, the edited version on "Dance Vault Mixes" digital single is most definitely the "neither" version. :-( MM |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 28 July 2012 at 6:43pm
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With Mark's help we have determined that the brand new Funky Town Grooves disc DOES NOT have the correct 45 edit, but instead is again the same old "neither" version of "Disco Nights." I shouldn't be surprised that they labeled the song as the 7" single when it is not the hit 45 (why would they bother to finally get it right). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: musicmanatl
Date Posted: 28 July 2012 at 9:01pm
| Mark, are you sure it's not the correct single version? I just bought it because I thought it was. So sad. Maybe we'll have to wait for the CD release of the album - although the manufacturer may end up using the wrong single version as well since everyone else has. |
Posted By: musicmanatl
Date Posted: 28 July 2012 at 9:02pm
| I don't know how to delete a post - I just read Santi's message and realized that the new CD also contains the wrong version. Oh well. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 28 July 2012 at 11:19pm
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Yup, wrong edit again, Frank.
Well, one clue in all this is that the actual 45 master is either mis-filed or gone. Since the "neither" edit is on the digital single from the label itself, it's obvious the label itself has that file stored as the "single version" and anyone requesting it will get that. A simple case over all these years of cd compilations where everyone receiving this master just took it on faith it was the single, being it runs the correct time. So at least for now this single master is in the land-of- the-lost with so many others. MM |
Posted By: musicmanatl
Date Posted: 29 July 2012 at 7:17am
| Thanks, Mark. Maybe someone can help Varese or Rhino put the correct version on an upcoming CD, like Varese did with "Knock On Wood"? |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 30 July 2012 at 4:08am
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Now from 1979, I have the K-Tel complilation "Starflight", and the track is included. If anyone also has it, can they verify that it's the true 45-rpm version?
------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 30 July 2012 at 8:09am
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I just bypassed all of this and did a needledrop of the 45
and was done with it. Here's a YouTube vid of the 45 I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYCsquroC80 The single can be reconstructed from the album version. ------------- |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 5:00pm
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Not to beat a dead horse, so to speak... but i really
wanted a sound upgrade on this. So (thanks to Santi) i was able to reconstruct the correct 45 from the CD LP version. Yes, i could have asked Aaron for his copy, as his recreations are always perfect, but i would have denied myself hours of fun trying to get this thing right. To do these re-constructions correctly, i always compare the tracks in my editor as mono files, one in left channel and one in the right. I've found for me it's the only way to really be sure. This way, even your cut is off by one beat, it jumps out at you. Well, i'll tell ya, they picked some WEIRD places to make the cuts. It's no surprise to me that no one over at BMG ever tried to really duplicate it (since i assume their old master is long lost.) There are no less than 3 edits that are *in-between* drum beats - very unusual, and lots of them are on snare beats instead of the obvious places you's expect. Just had to share that. Anyway, thanks Santi and Ed for the help with it! MM |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 10:54pm
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Well, I have the 45 you could have used.
Anyway, Mark, I often encounter cuts that are made on the snare hit. In a lot of cases, it makes sense. The trickiest edit I ever had to reconstruct was the second to the last cut on Teddy Pendergrass' "Close The Door". To this day, i'm not sure how I did it. It was purely by accident, but I nailed it, and this is when I first started editing on, believe it or not, a cassette deck using the pause button! The trick in those days was to get the feel for the mechanical pause button. When I got into digital editing, I just transferred that cassette to DAT, and later copied the DAT onto a computer for archiving. To this day, my 45 edit is that original cassette copy, as I haven't found the need to redo it with software. ------------- |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 21 December 2014 at 8:43pm
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You are all well aware that the version on Rhino's The Disco Years Vol. 2 (1990) is an incorrect attempt to recreate the 45, or at least create a short version of the song. It does sound great, though, and runs at the proper tempo of the 45 (123.2 BPM).
There are a whole lot of CDs that use the same analog transfer of The Disco Years Vol. 2:
------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 25 July 2016 at 7:04pm
Hmmm, four years later, and it seems it's time to re-visit this one again, at least for those seeking the correct U.S. 45 version (and at the correct speed)... I was just doing some "looking ahead" on-line regarding new releases currently scheduled to come out next month. The 2012 expanded edition of GQ's 1979 album, Disco Nights, on the U.K.-based Funky Town Grooves label - which Santi Paradoa originally detailed above - has been out-of-print for at least a couple years now. So enter FTG's chief competitor in '70s & '80s r&b CD re-issues, the U.K.-based Big Break Records/Cherry Red label... BBR/Cherry Red has currently scheduled not one, but TWO new CD releases in the coming weeks that will feature multiple versions of "Disco Nights (Rock-Freak)" on both. First is the 2-CD retrospective, Standing Ovation: The Story of GQ and The Rhythm Makers (1974-1982), on August 5. Although I couldn't find any timings to help determine exactly which versions will be included, the two on this one are described as the "long version" (disc one, track 1) and a "remix" (disc two, track 15). Page for this upcoming release on Cherry Red's official web site http://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/standing-ovation-the-story-of-gq-and-the-rhythm-makers-1974-1982/ - here . Page on Amazon (won't have until August 12, apparently) https://www.amazon.com/Standing-Ovation-Story-Rhythm-Makers/dp/B01HD34Q9W/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1467038491&sr=1-5&refinements=p_21:Audio+CD,p_33:Cherry+Red,p_n_date:1249114011&linkCode=ll1&tag=10e634-20&linkId=c05fd1c252fd1b630634fb7e6a234e0b - here ... Then there's also going to be another re-issue of the 1979 Disco Nights album, this time an expanded edition w/ SEVEN bonus tracks, for a total of 15. Also due August 5, like the 2012 FTG release, this one will feature three versions: the LP version (track 1), what's currently labeled as the "single version" (track 9), and the 12" version (track 13) - but again, I couldn't find any additional info to help determine if they're correct. Page on Cherry Red's official web site http://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/disco-nights/ - here . Page on Amazon (again, won't have until August 12) https://www.amazon.com/Disco-Nights-GQ/dp/B008EOQVCU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1467478108&sr=1-71&refinements=p_n_date:20160812&linkCode=ll1&tag=10e634-20&linkId=ac8ad8e04d39147500167aad620472cd - here ... So, Santi or Mark: Perhaps one of you guys could contact BBR/Cherry Red via phone or e-mail, and tell them the story about the true 45 version of "Disco Nights (Rock-Freak)" and how it's never appeared on CD - and if what they intend to use is NOT correct, while I admit it's a long shot, perhaps the label may even care enough to "stop the presses" and track down the right master tape after all these years??? :-) |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 26 July 2016 at 12:11pm
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Well, I wrote a nice letter to Cherry Red asking about
the single version of "Disco Nights" and explaining the issue. But, unfortunately if they did issue the wrong version on this release it's likely much too late for them do anything about it. With an August 5th release and the 12th for Amazon, those CD's should already be manufactured and in cases ready to ship to distributors. This requires weeks of lead time. But I have high hopes. Cherry Red and their associated labels have been doing excellent work so hopefully the producers didn't overlook this important detail. I'll post here if I get a reply. MM |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 26 July 2016 at 8:19pm
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I have a big problem with Cherry Red/Big Break (bbr)CDs
because they been hard-limiting and boosting the bass on their CDs to the point where they are unlistenable. The good thing is that the true single can be edited from the album version. ------------- |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 26 July 2016 at 11:31pm
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Hits Man, maybe somebody at BBR/CR got the memo about the
loudness wars. The Kool & Gang track I just posted about in the other thread was actually beautifully mastered. Level peaked out about -2 DB with full dynamic range and clean, clear EQ like it sounded in the 80's..no boosting of hi's or low's. I bought a couple of disco album reissues from them earlier this year and they are also superbly mastered. This may depend on who is producing the project also. MM |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 July 2016 at 6:50pm
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Thanks, Mark. It would be nice to know exactly which BBR
CDs are mastered without the compression and EQ boost. ------------- |
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 30 June 2017 at 9:00am
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Has anyone been able to confirm that last year's Cherry Red release contained the actual 45 version?
Even the "Flashback" Arista re-issue 45 is the "neither" version. I must have purchased it around 1988, which means it is likely not a Bill Inglot edit. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 30 June 2017 at 10:17am
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I never bothered to purchase the Cherry Red CD release. Maybe they did get it right but I doubt it. The incorrect edit that has been issued many times before has the vocal starting at the thirty second mark. The correct 45 edit has the vocals starting at the 27 second mark. I gave up looking for the correct edit five years ago when Funky Town Grooves got it wrong. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 July 2017 at 10:12am
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Like Mark, I recreated the 45 version myself. I may have
used the YouTube video as a source, who knows. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 July 2017 at 10:13am
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Sadly, it's only a small segment of the population that
truly cares to have a proper 45 version or DJ edit in our libraries. The late James Abbott, in 2007, really helped get me started on the right path to get the right versions. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 03 July 2017 at 7:49am
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It sure would be nice if someone from in the industry
could comment on this fiasco. ------------- |