Wondering, why an obsession about...
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
Forum Name: Chat Board
Forum Description: Chat away but please observe the chat board rules
URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=506
Printed Date: 02 May 2025 at 11:06am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Wondering, why an obsession about...
Posted By: budaniel
Subject: Wondering, why an obsession about...
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 10:24am
|
Hey all. Just curious. Why are so many determined to recreate single edits
of songs? Ever since I was a little kid, and first discovered that very often my 45s and K-tel records included EDITS of album versions (I think I first became aware of the situation when I got a full length Village People LP-- only to find my favorite hits were much longer than on my K-tel records!), my focus has always been to make sure I have the full length version of a song as it was originally recorded by the artist. Not to say single "mixes" aren't important to me sometimes (for instance, the single of "Look What You've Done To Me" by Boz Scaggs includes instrumentation not in the LP mix), but the idea of an "edit" has always made me feel ripped off! :-) |
Replies:
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 11:00am
|
<the single of "Look What
You've Done To Me" by Boz Scaggs includes instrumentation not in the LP mix)> Do you recall what other instrumentation was in that mix? I simply made an edit of the album version and THOUGHT that I had the single version! But to answer your question, having made some single edits (though not as many as some of the other people on this board), I think for many people they want to hear the version they grew up with, the version they always knew from the radio. Certainly with single MIXES, they were generally done to sound better and usually contain MORE instrumentation, but why people would want the edited versions of recordings -- I think it's familiarity. In some cases, the long versions have slowed down sections that don't "feel" like a regular part of the song, like Roger Hodgson's "Had a Dream" -- or just completely different sections. I can only compare it to visiting an old friend -- if you went to visit a friend you hadn't seen in a couple years, and all of a sudden he had a third arm, you'd say, "Get rid of that extra arm!" |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 12:05pm
|
myself.........i'm trying to get every top 40 song as it appeared on the charts in it's 45/cassingle/cd sgl version in a digital format.....just my hobby.....as far as an esthetic reason, i DO like the short songs..........my feeling is if you can't say what you have to say in 2 to 3 minutes, your wasting my time.......i have no need for 6, 7, or 10 minute songs...... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 12:19pm
| I agree for the same reasons, especially the point of familiarity that Edisonlite brings up. Also, most of us already have the longer LP versions of these songs, but we want the 45 versions, too. Like Edtop40 said, we're collectors, and some of us are just trying to "complete" our collections by having both the LP and/or 45 versions of songs. |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 1:05pm
|
by default, due to so many compilation purchases, I also have both the
single and album versions in many cases. Occasionally, an edit seems better--take for instance the LP version of Abacab by Genesis--ugh! The single definitely gets to the point! Of course, I guess part of it for me is a focus on dance music. But a lot of single edits cut out verses, vocal ad libs and things such as that--that to me goes beyond just having say an instrumental intro that's twice as long. Now, for the boz Scaggs dilemma--in the single version (which I still have on a K-tel album called The Elite--but really want on CD because the vinyl pressing was not very good), I believe it's in the break between the first chorus and the next verse, there is what I guess you could call a sort of "twanging" instrumentation that is totally missing from the album version! That's the only reason I still have that k-tel record in my collection, because every other song on it was long ago replaced on CD. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 1:34pm
I have a couple of CDs with a long version. They do feature a guitar solo during the break between the first chorus and second verse (the solo is repeated in the break between the second chorus and the reprised chorus--much of which was edited out in the single version). Does that mean that these CDs don't have the true LP version? Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing a version on the radio many years ago without a guitar solo (which was not edited). I can't add anything that hasn't already been said on your other initial question. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
budaniel wrote:Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 2:28pm
|
anyone else have the 45 who could clarify what I'm trying to say? The
instrumental break is just completely different on that version as compared to the LP version. We might have to start a separate "Look What You've Done To Me" topic to clear this one up.... |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 3:31pm
| ok, I listened at home, and at approximately the 1:50 mark on the single version of "Look What You've Done to Me", the chorus ends and bleeds into a twangy guitar. On the LP version, the chorus background vocals almost fade out into silence, and a very quiet piano then takes over. The twangy guitar finally shows up for the last few notes. |
Posted By: JMD1961
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 3:47pm
|
I'm coming into this one a little late, but felt I should comment on the single/album version discussion.
A lot of my desire to have the 45 version of a song is due to a personal project that I'm working on. Basically, I'm making my own "time-life" series, only trying to one up them, but including ALL the hits from each year. Not just the soft rock, pop, country, R&B and various other styles, but all of them together, just as they appeared on the charts. So, with the 45 versions, I kill two birds with one stone. First, I get the version that actually charted. And second, since singles generally ran shorter than album tracks, I can get the most "bang for my buck" per CD. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 4:06pm
Hmmm. As stated before, I have two CDs that Pat cites as having the LP version of that song (one runs (5:14), the other (5:12)). In both cases, that guitar solo appears in the break that you mentioned (the guitar solo is also reprised in the break that would've been excised by the single version). There's a CD with a (5:27) version, which is the Urban Cowboy soundtrack CD. I wonder if that's the version that you have on vinyl (I don't have that CD to note whether or not guitars appear, plus it's 13-15 seconds longer than the other commercially-available versions). And was there a Boz Scaggs LP that had the song that might account for the (5:1x) version (which would have spawned the (4:11) edit)? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 5:01pm
|
As far as the single edits question goes... When you're collecting Hot 100 hits, the single version is the version that charted... they didn't measure album sales. The longer version isn't what the charts are referring to.
Also, just the collector mentality... it's definitely HARDER to collect the single edits, and I suppose it's fun (and aggravating) to have a difficult goal. And because we collectors just need something to be anal-retentive about. |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 5:20pm
| Hm--the "long" version I have IS on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack! So, does that mean that the LP version on other CDs may actually be the version into which the single was edited, which includes the guitar solo? If someone can verify, I will have to pick up one of the other CDs--and that would also mean the Urban Cowboy version is indeed a different version. |
Posted By: Paul Esch
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 7:19pm
|
The version on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack is different from
what is on Hits! because there is no immediate guitar break after the first chorus; it is a different break before the second verse starts up. Also, on my vinyl 45 version, the backing vocals are different. Unlike the soundtrack version, which has female backing vocals, the 45 version has the Eagles (or at least Frey, Henley and Schmit) doing the backing vocals. The "Eagles" version is on My Time: A Boz Scaggs Anthology, although not the 45 length/edit. |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 9:12pm
| thanks so much for the info. My topic actually ended up helping me out. I'm gonna grab that Boz Scaggs anthology. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 11 November 2005 at 9:58am
Isn't that what we're here for? :) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 25 February 2006 at 10:42pm
|
Paul E writes:
<The version on the Urban Cowboy soundtrack is different from what is on Hits! because there is no immediate guitar break after the first chorus; it is a different break before the second verse starts up. Also, on my vinyl 45 version, the backing vocals are different. Unlike the soundtrack version, which has female backing vocals, the 45 version has the Eagles (or at least Frey, Henley and Schmit) doing the backing vocals. The "Eagles" version is on My Time: A Boz Scaggs Anthology, although not the 45 length/edit.> Question to Paul E and Budaniel who have this Boz Scaggs "Anthology" box (or anyone else): Can the 45 version be extracted from this "Anthology" version that has the Eagles background vocals? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 10:29am
|
Yes. Remove everything between roughly (3:40) and (4:41) of the Hits! LP version (which is what was used for the anthology) and that should give you the 45. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 10:47am
| OK -- that's exactly what I did about 5 years ago -- I used the Hits! CD version to make the edit. I thought the above info was saying that a different version was used to make the single edit (like the Urban Cowboy mix). Glad I already have the right version and don't have to buy a box set for one song (and in this case, what would end up being 3/4 of one song!) |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 26 February 2006 at 9:43pm
Well, I haven't read the other posts yet, so I don't know if it has been mentioned, but K-Tel butchered the 45 edits! They had to in order to cram like 15-18 tracks on one side! So, what you heard on those awful K-tel albums weren't even the singles! It was a rare occasion that you did get close to it. And, remember that many singles were mixed differently and sound different than the LP versions. As for single versions themselves, the 45s and radio promos, they were usually what got played on the radio, so we radio listeners got used to hearing the edited versions. And, some of those edits are superior to the long, drug out LP versions. And, lastly, it's fun to recreate or collect single versions with our software. Remember, a lot of 45 versions are rare or unique, and need to be preserved just like those LP versions. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 04 March 2006 at 8:31am
| I'd say that Grant's comments nicely sum up my thoughts on this topic as well. I try to collect DJ, 45, and LP version/lengths of every Top 40 hit. But since LP version/lengths are readily available on CD 99% of the time, it tends to shift my focus toward hunting down the 45 and DJ version/lengths. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 4:27am
|
Frankly, I'm w/ budaniel on this one - in fact, I agree
w/ almost everything he said. I've been truly amazed reading the lengths that most of the regulars here have stated they go to just to come up w/ the "45 versions" of hit songs on CD, and had often thought about asking the same question. Like budaniel, I've almost always preferred the longer album versions - my basic philosophy being, the more I get to hear of a song that I like, the better! (Yeah, sometimes 8- or 9- or 17-minute 12" versions of tunes can get a bit drawn out, but those mixes rarely appeared on the album.) I suppose my preference is due in part to the fact that when I first started buying music in the early '80s, I bypassed cheaper singles from the get-go, and always sprung the $8-$9 it cost back then for the entire album (and back in those days, doing so didn't carry nearly as much risk as it does today - nor cost as much!). Of course, it didn't help that back in '83, singles were pretty much available only in the less desirable vinyl format - I could already tell then that vinyl was on the way out, so I never even bothered w/ a turntable, and started w/ cassettes. (And wow - cassettes were also smaller, recordable, could hold more minutes of music, and best of all, were PORTABLE, so it was really no contest!) Besides, w/ very few exceptions, I didn't feel that the single versions I heard on the radio were all that different from the album versions that I ultimately invested in. And hey, I guess unlike most here, I spent just as much time listening to my collection of cassettes (w/ the album versions) as I did the radio, so those longer "LP versions" ended up being just as much a part of the soundtrack of my life during that period, and therefore, don't ruin any memories for me when I re-purchase & hear them on CD today (which seems to really be the only argument most people are making here, anyway)! :-) Also like budaniel, I invested in hundreds of V/A compilations back in the day (I primarily used them as a way of introducing myself to hits that I might've missed on the radio the first time around, or to "re-discover" past hits that I never heard on the radio anymore), so I have a fairly good amount of 45 versions from those as well. And yep, those infamous K-tel and Ronco compilations of the '70s and '80s were w/o a doubt an excellent source for me, too, and I still have 'em all to this day (including "The Elite")... Personally, I prefer to broaden my collection by digging past the top 40 (believe me, there really is a lot more great music out there from the past than just the songs that made it close to the top of the pop charts!), as opposed to tracking down the LP, 45, 12", dj edit, and Hindu-language versions of the exact same song - my fairly wide taste in music already makes this hobby expensive enough, lol. But to each their own... :-) |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 7:08am
|
my feeling is...
if you can't make your point in a 3 minute song, then you're either not focusing properly or don't have the ability to do so.... edtop40 ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 10:50am
|
Well 80smusicfreak, I hate to say it, but this may be a case of "you had to have been there", meaning you didn't live through the golden top 40 era to really appreciate singles. And, those differences between singles and LP mixes are very significant, especially when it comes to things like overdubs, mono, and sonic qualities.
Those K-Tel and Ronco LPs are a valuble resource for hearing music, but in no way did they ever represent the actual singles or even radio dj versions. And, don't forget, many times the LP versions were "incomplete", with the songs only fully realized on the single, as with Three Dog Night's "Joy To The World" or "An Old Fashioned Love Song". If you have been concentrating on the LP versions, you have NOT heard the songs! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 1:19pm
|
<Besides, w/ very few exceptions, I didn't feel that the
single versions I heard on the radio were all that different from the album versions> I think this is where you differ from a lot of people on the board. As a comparison, I know people that listen to greatly remastered CDs and poorly mastered (muffled) CDs and truly cannot hear any difference between the two. It all sounds the same to them, and they have no problem with the dull, muffled CDs. I hear a BIG difference between bright CDs and muffled CDs. The same can be said about two mixes of a song. I think why you feel different than many of the people who post on the board is your statement above (that you don't hear much of a difference). I hear a BIG difference between the single mixes and album mixes. You don't (with few exceptions). When I purchase these CDs, and there's instrumentation and/or vocals MISSING, it just sounds wrong to me. So I seek out the version I remember. Since I played my 45s a lot over the years, I still continued to hear (and remember) the single mixes. Since you never bought a turntable, the single mixes you heard on the radio are probably things you haven't heard in 20 years and therefore those recordings hold no little or no value to you. The only other comparison I can make is -- if you bought the DVD of the "Wizard of Oz" and it showed Dorothy's yellow slippers, the wicked witch of the west looked like Marilyn Monroe, and you saw Dorothy go through the forest with her friends -- the duck, the giraffe and the turtle (and her white cat Whitesnake), you might wish to seek out the other DVD ... OK, that's not a perfect comparison since the other version of the movie doesn't exist, but hopefully it shows the reaction we have when we buy a CD and say "Huh? What's this? This isn't the way I remember it going!" |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 1:31pm
|
i definitely am a huge proponent of having the single version if it's a
radically different mix than the album version. But many times the posts here say "how can I EDIT the album version to make the single version?" We're talking about cutting out verses of songs, specific instrument solos, etc. In these cases, the way the song was written, recorded, and intended by the artist is the way it is presented on the album. In order to jam more hits on the radio, the music biz has those works of art butchered. That's like saying, "let's cut the corners off these Picasso's, Michelangelo's, etc....so that we can fit more paintings in the art gallery." Saying it in more than 3 minutes leads to masterpieces from the likes of Jim Steinman and Pink Floyd. On the other hand, I'd agree that I don't want to hear more than 3 minutes of, say, Mambo No. 5 or the Macarena...in fact, 3 seconds is enough. My goal is to hear and own each song the way the artist intended it....and to also own the completely altered, completely remixed dance versions that sound nothing like the original... tee hee! I'm such a hypocrite... But, no matter what version you're after, we must give thanks to Pat for making it possible for all of us to find that version we seek on CD. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 March 2006 at 6:30pm
| Well, that's the whole nature of collecting, to collect something very specific. Yeah, it is a little insane, but collecting ANYTHING just for the sake of collecting it is a little insane. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 12:41am
BUT, those edits became the "master" recordings in and of themselves. We can't always say that the long LP versions are what the artist intended. We just can't know this inevery case. In fact, there are many artists that prefer the single versions of their hits. They just sound tighter, more to the point. They don't noodle around.
Not all music is classic rock. Not every type of music benifits from long, extended jams or pieces of abstract art. There is also such thing as a song being stretched out too long without a purpose. That describes a lot of songs. I couldn't bear to hear "Layla" or "Stairway To Heaven" chopped up, particularly if I never heard them any other way, but I also have no time for the long version of "In-a Gadda Da-vida". I want the version I heard on radio and bought on singles. And, I want them in digital form. So, I do what I have to do to get it.
I've been seeking out single versions since the 70s, whe I realized that the stereo mixes weren't the same songs that I remembered as a kid. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 12:43am
|
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 6:00am
It sounds like you're looking at only half the song - i.e., the lyrics. To me, instrumentation counts very much toward a song's appeal, too, and certainly in the case of dance music, could be argued as even more important than the lyrics. Can one's attention span not exceed three minutes??? I agree w/ budaniel's point that some artists' styles are more suited for three-minute songs, while others may need ten or more (and still be quite enjoyable, if you give it a chance). And what's wrong w/ variety??? :-) |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 7:16am
While I don't deny that my personal collection of singles (all formats) pales in comparison to albums (again, all formats), singles were certainly still a major seller and presence in stores during my childhood and teen years of the '70s and '80s. Most kids and teens my age were definitely still buying singles when I started in the early '80s, and I admit that I took a route (i.e., going straight to albums) that was different from most, even then... Let's face it, most of us choose to collect (or certainly favor) the music of our child and teen years, and it definitely sounds like you're a little older than me, so for you to prefer the music of the late '60s/early '70s is certainly understandable. Fortunately, most of the music I collect/prefer doesn't fall in that era when there were stereo/mono issues, and differences in "sonic quality" were greater (my focus is primarily the mid '70s to late '80s)...
Yes, I agree that the Ronco collections in particular were butchered! But not as much w/ K-tel - and as budaniel apparently agrees, my only real complaint was the sound quality (and it didn't matter which format you bought them on - i.e., vinyl LP, 8-track, or cassette). But I also bought hundreds of V/A compilations from the majors, which in most cases did contain "unbutchered" versions of the hits - but I always felt those darn K-tel and Ronco collections offered the best snapshot of top 40 music from any given time, and I rediscovered many past favorites by buying them, so to this day, I still have a soft spot for 'em... :-) As for "45 versions", there are definitely some artists that are high enough on my list of personal faves where I do make the effort to go beyond owning just the "LP versions" of their hits. And while I certainly enjoy Three Dog Night as well (and have long owned a couple of their hits collections), they admittedly aren't one of them; in their case, the LP versions suit me just fine (but that's not to say some of their "45 versions" weren't superior)... |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 7:54am
|
I think the styles of music we're talking about here are what lend
themselves to our tastes in song lengths. 80smusicfreak and myself didn't grow up in the golden age of the single...we grew up in the golden age of the MAXI single. While I totally agree that the long version of In Gada is something I don't want to sit through (but still want to own along with the 7" version for completist's sake), when i hear, let's say, "We Are Family" by Sister Sledge, or any of the Donna Summer/Giorgio Moroder synth masterpieces, I want to hear those full length album versions, because the songs just start getting good at the point where the single fades out! As 80s dance music took over 9and even "rock" music was dance music at that point), the "extended remix" was pretty much planned from the start and was usually the better version...For instance, I listen to any Dead or Alive album version, and I feel totally cheated because there is so much more going on in the extended remixes--the singles are actually all out boring to me. Songs of the 50s and 60s, most often, just don't lend themselves to extended or long versions--although, I still get all giddy when I look in the database under, say, The Supremes, and see "15 second longer fade than any previously released version." The thought of hearing 15 more seconds of ad-libbed fade by Diana and the girls never heard before--- AWESOME. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 10 March 2006 at 8:47pm
I am in my 40s and started collecting records in 1968, at the age of five! I listen to all kinds of music, so I am well-rounded. But, it was usually the singles for me. Whe I started buying albums in 1973, I still bought many more 45s. More music that way. In many cases, I like and have both or all versions. About "We Are Family", I had the 45 first. Then a year later I got the LP. I apreciate both versions for what they are, and listen to both. But, I prefer the version of the Rhino-Atlantic CD because it is at the slower, recorded speed. Even in the late 70s, there were many times major differences between singles and LPs. Some people may not care to much about differences, but I do, right down to the fade! I once went through several CDs looking for the full-length version of "Everybody Plays The Fool" by the Main Ingredient. I finally found it. lol! I also keep the Billboard Top Hits 1975 around because it is the only CD I have that contains the full-length version of Elton John's "Philadelphia Freedom". If you have any EJ comps, you just don't have it. They all fade the song too early. All the more reason to seek out single versions. Sometimes they are longer than the album versions. More music to gear! Right? |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 09 August 2020 at 9:01pm
|
Did anyone comment on the details of the Three Dog Night, "Joy To The World?" I have to admit I only skimmed this thread.
What I remember about this song was that there was certainly a radio version that had a sweet guitar solo in the bridge that other versions didn't have. I also had a more album oriented approach to collecting until I started doing DJ work. At that point, it was clear that folks didn't want to hear the album cuts at parties as often as the single, or radio 45 versions. The 45 versions often were brighter and easier to keep a dancing group's attention with. So I had to start re-collecting songs I already had. Somewhere, I posted a comment about Chuck Mangione and the song, "Feels So Good." Though I'd never play it except maybe for a dinner selection, I still prefer the whole album cut. Same with Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida. (To me), some songs just shouldn't have had a 45 version. If you were there you knew those songs in long play because many FM stations were happy to play whole album sides. I had to put "To me" in parentheses, obviously others won't agree with that comment. When "Oxygene" made it's debut on STL radio, I was there and waiting for the complete album experience. Later, "Part IV" became a hit from the album. I have no idea if there was an actual 45 version or not. I'm sure I could go to the books and check that one. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 10:03am
|
Welcome aboard, Dave! I, like a few here over the years,
began a career in radio. I started in my teens and remained in the radio business until 1997 (23 years.) While in the radio business, I also began to mobile DJ. First, in many bars and clubs, then moving into weddings in the mid-1990s. I began subscribing to music services for DJs, first with Hot Hits, then Top Hits USA, then PrimeCuts, and now Promo Only. I always was aware of radio edits and single versions (or 45 versions), but it didn't really hit me until around 2007 when I realized client music requests of older songs I was getting were way longer than they would have been when released. Case in point, Tupelo Honey from Van Morrison. I then did a Google search to figure out differences in lengths and versions. I came across a site with an article including information from a James Abbott, who I discovered through further links was a regular contributor to this site. This led me to become a subscriber to Pat Downey's online database and following the posts. This led to a huge light bulb going off in my head that my perception was correct. There were differences. That led me to start asking questions, buying a turntable after many years and dubbing 45s and recreating single edits. Jim Abbott has since passed away but had I not found that article where Jim described the differences between several songs, some DJ short edits etc., I would not have parked myself here for the last 13 years and counting! In reference to "Joy To The World" from Three Dog Night, the 45 version has made it to CD but fades a few seconds early to hide vinyl noise. It really is the superior version vs. the LP version. Enjoy your stay, I'm sure you'll become as addicted about finding the 45 version and DJ edits much like I have. And, I'm still DJing at weddings and events, though this year has really proved challenging at best. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 2:49pm
|
Hey John!
Thanks for dropping in and giving me that mini-bio of how you got here. I find all that kind of stuff fascinating! I wonder, does the mod allow a single thread to have us describe ourselves? It sure would be cool to hear a number of stories about all the in and ex-radio folks that still hang out just for the fun of it. Of course, I also know there are some who like to keep all the radio and production stuff private too. I never did actually make it on-air. Though I had a year and a half at the STLMO based "Broadcast Center." It was kind of like a trade school for on-air wanna bees. It also had a valuable format of having local radio and TV folks to mind the students along with a fair amount of self study. I had plans to jump directly into the metropolitan market to bypass all the small station startups, which wasn't really a smart way to start. I think the original guy who started the school was Gephardt. Later, his son I believe carried on the management. Geez! was that really forty years ago? I did however meet a lot of folks in the industry. All with stories of stations and music. I guess that was plenty of value to me right there as it was. There's a lot more to those stories but, I guess I have to jab about a single here to keep this post legit! I have to re-check but, I think there is also another one that I sometimes hear in single form by the band Looking Glass. "Brandy You're a Fine Girl" has some instrument differences between single and album versions too, if I'm not mistaken. I'll have to go figure it out or, more than likely it's been covered in an old thread. I'm glad to have found this forum! ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 3:16pm
|
Yes, there are differences between the 45 and Lp versions
of Brandy as well. The CD's that contain the 45 version are documented in the database. There was a radio DJ that worked here in the 1970s, later leaving for Philadelphia, Birmingham and some other cities eventually ending up in St. Louis. Not sure if you ever worked with him but his name is David Craig on-air, real last name is Lankford. His air name here in Erie, PA in the 1970s was "Smokey Burns." ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: dacs2000
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 5:22pm
|
Wow! this thread is really up my alley, as I'm almost
finished compiling a complete digitisation of Australia's entire Ktel Compilation run from 1974 to 2000. This subject wasn't really relavent as for being a kid in the late 70s and 80s, I would just tape much of the stuff off radio, Sydney getting it's first FM stations in April 1980, this was a real thrill. But as much as I used my father's hi fi cassette deck in combination with TDK AD and Maxell UD tapes to get the best results, it kind of lacked something, and just when I started buying my own music, CD came out, so I was kind of straight into CD from the get go. Finishing school and my part time jobs here and there, I started earning better dollars and with that in 1988 and 1989 started buying many more CDs, and the very first thing that really punched me in the stomach harder then a kick up the behind was Paul Youngs "No Parlez" CD; completely different from the record. "Come back and Stay" was unrecognisable, "Love of the common people" was stretched to insanity, and "wherever I lay my hat" was just going on, and on, and on, and on, and on, you get the idea. The next one shortly after was Dead or Alive's "Youthquake". "Lover come back" and "you spin me round" sounded fine, but "In to deep" was what the hell? Whatever happened to that big huge Synth intro, instead was just a solo rhythm guitar, this album version really really sucked. 1990 I started getting into community radio, and it was at this time that the ducks started aligning, the people at the record store I regularly visited, HMV Mid CIty, started appreciating that I was a regular customer, and gave me a few perks. One of which was being able to return and swap CDs without the hassle if I didn't have the docket. I guess some would have used this opportunity to buy CDs, record them to a good tape, and return the CD back, but this wasn't my intention at all. CDs were still very expensive back then, and it was often a purchase of AU$25 to $30 for a disc, for getting one or two songs. If these were the wrong versions, I felt that I was shafted, and luckily with this they were many albums I had to return and swap, just because they DID NOT have the correct single version. At the same time, they were suddenly an abundance of greatest hits and best of compilations appearing under budget labels, and 1990 and 1991 were the two years that saw not just a huge boost to my CD collection, but finally starting to get many correct single versions and edits. For the next several years I worked at various community stations in Western Sydney, and then from the late 90s established my own internet radio station, hoping to get broadcast spectrum. With the rise of automated playout systems and computers, I digitised my entire CD collection. By 2010 I had around 16,000 tracks, and it was at this point that the penny dropped that compiling the entire Australian Ktel series was a serious possibility. In 2012 I researched some australian websites, and eventually discogs and with the relavent info, compiled quite a few hundred ktel comps. They were still several tracks missing. This is where second hand record fares, torrents, lossless streaming hosts like deezer and tidal, and a few UK digital flac stores came in very handy. One DJ service I would like to recommend on this board, but don't know if it's outside of the rules, specialised in hosting WAVs of every UK charting hit from the 50s onwards. But with me, I am a singles version maniac, but as my era of music is the 70s, 80s, and 90s, the length of an average single was around 3:30 to about 4:45, and this is really the absolute attention span of me enjoying a song, album versions do make me sleepy, as I actually do drift off. THey are a few album versions that do stand out as being great: Billy Ocean - When the going gets tough Michael Jacksons - Thriller Far Corporation - Stairway to heaven Jon Bon Jovi - Blaze of glory Elton John's - Chloe (full ten minute version) Abba - Summer night city Roxette - It mut have been love But again, these are few and far between and with this most importantly the one thing that was often understated was that single edits had over dubs, extra instruments, slightly different configurations in the instrument mix that just made them sound more appealing. I don't know about others on here, but aside from finding the right single edit, I'm also trying to find such versions without them being dynamically smashed to pieces - many record labels today seem to be hell bent on destroying every piece of head room and nuance that's contained within a track. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 5:35pm
Pat and I are the only mods, and I’m fine with that. I haven’t asked Pat, but I feel he would be okay with it, too. We are all excellent about staying on topic, so one thread that doesn’t talk about top 40 music on CD is not an issue IMO. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 10 August 2020 at 5:51pm
|
I can't seem to recall if David Craig spent any time on air here as "Smokey Burns." However, the name David Craig sure does sound familiar.
One guy I used to listen to back in the '60s I believe was Mort Crowley on KXOK-AM. I was surprised to find out that one of my classmates in grade school was actually his daughter. Though she almost never spoke about it much. Later, I was watching a documentary on bands and stations in Chicago, and his name popped up there too. I'm guessing he and the old sports caster "Harry Carey" traded cities. I ought to see if I can find some info online about him sometime. The '70s were wild here for top-40 radio. It was a mixed bucket of just about everything pop or country. The big rock station KSHE seemed to cater to more of the Led Zepplin, Black Sabbath etc. Rock stations didn't seem to have the "Single" in mind when they programmed the day, but they did stick to repetition on a lighter scale than the top-40 stations did. I still remember a night when a friend and I got bored after work and called into the FM pop station, KSLQ. After talking to the DJ for a while, (This was late at night after we both got off work at the local Steak n Shake), we got an invite to hang out with the guy on-air. It was a blast to sit in the booth as a teenager and see how stuff was actually done before automation came along. I have no idea who the DJ was anymore, but it sure was a good way to spend an hour or so watching him work. One thing that stuck with me from broadcasting school was the voice training. I was told numerous times that I ought to do parties in the late '80s, so I tried it out and was entrenched for two decades! I also held down a regular 9-5 job at the same time. Times were pretty good for a guy who moonlighted as a Mobile DJ here. Also, I expanded my knowledge of music and genre while doing it. I hope to read a number of stories here of folks in other cities who did likewise. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 07 November 2020 at 12:40am
Because those edits encompass the versions on the radio we all knew and grew up with. The LP versions don't need recreations most are out there somewhere on CD, and if they are not you can buy a nice vinyl LP and listen. Sometimes the edited versions make a song. I know for me Peter Gabriel's Sledgehammer at 4:02 is a tight song, compared to the almost 5-6 minute 45 version. For me, the edit wins everytime. Where you have Layla by Derek and the Dominos, the 7 min version is sacred and the 2-3 min edit is what it is. You may have asked the question 14 years ago, but the newbies on the board have no idea how bad most of our OCD is concerning single versions, radio edits and 45 commercial versions are... ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 07 November 2020 at 2:02pm
|
Very wide range of thoughts on this topic.
Being in my 60's, I grew up with Top 40 radio in my blood. Lived outside of New York in the 60's so WABC was my teacher, so to speak. When we moved to Ohio the local Top 40 stations WCOL and WNCI-FM furthered that education. I have been one who for the most part would consider the single as the version of a song most would be familiar with. At least most of my friends from those days would say. Example: Closer To Home (I'm Your Captain) from Grand Funk Railroad 1970. To me 10 minutes of that song is a bit much even today. Back then rambling on and on in a song was what bands had to do to be hip. Usually with the exception of some rare cases, a waste of vinyl. Of course, some longer songs do work better than even the single of that song, Light My Fire from the Doors being a case in point. So if the label tightens up a song to garner airplay and bring revenue to the band and label, it can be a win win. Thoughts from a single edit collector! |