hipsway "the honeythief"
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Topic: hipsway "the honeythief"
Posted By: edtop40
Subject: hipsway "the honeythief"
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 11:06am
my commercial 45 issued as columbia 06570 of hipsway "the honeythief" starts with the intro all the way in the right side channel.....while the cd i have from the cd below
(S) (3:09) EMI 32694 Living In Oblivion - The 80's Greatest Hits Volume Five
has the intro all the way on the left side channel....question is.....are ALL the cd's in the db like this or do ANY have the propoer 45 version on them......meaning the intro on the right side channel.....
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edtop40
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Replies:
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 11:27am
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Ed, I have the Hipsway CD and the intro is in the left channel too.
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Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 7:25pm
ok...as they say in football.....upon further review.....it's ONLY the 0:02 intro that is reversed...the 45 has the 0:02 intro in the right channel, but the cd version i have and that john has, has the intro in the left channel......everything else is the same...
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edtop40
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 8:27pm
I reviewed the CDs I have with "The Honeythief", and it appears that these CDs have the proper intro, which is a significant "whoosh" sound primarily in the right channel, leading to a drumbeat/guitar strum primarily in the left channel, with the guitar riff following primarily in the left channel:- Greatest Hits Of The 80's (3-CD set, Realm A3H 26222, 1996)
- Pop & Wave Vol. 7 - The Sound Of The 80's (Sony Music Germany 487589 2, 1997)
- Hits On CD Volume 5 (Phonogram W. Germany 816336-2, 1986; about 1.4% too fast at 112.6 BPM; true tempo is 111.0 BPM)
Note that two of these CD have improper punctuation in their titles. This doesn't affect the sound, though.
The following CDs actually have a dropout in the right channel during the intro, rather than a channel reversal:- Living In Oblivion - The 80's Greatest Hits - Volume 5 (EMI 32694, 1995)
- Another Lost Decade: The '80s: Hard To Find Hits (Time-Life M19133/B0004959-02, 2005; digitally identical to Living In Oblivion)
Note here the proper use of the apostrophe in the Time-Life title, albeit with the excessive use of two colons.
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Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 8:38pm
another thing that is unusual is that my vinyl 45 states on the label "7" version".....but it seems to be identical to the full length cd/lp version...go figure...
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edtop40
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Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 04 February 2011 at 6:25pm
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Despite Crapfromthepast's note above that points out the "woosh" sound effect intro, the database does not make a distiction between any of the "Honeythief" CD appearances. I just picked up the Hipsway self-titled CD (Columbia 40522) and can confirm that it also has the "woosh" effect. Based on edtop40s comment, it would appear that the 45 version includes this effect as well. Accordingly, shouldn't all of the database entries without the "woosh" effect be labeled "neither the 45 nor the LP version"?
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 25 July 2022 at 8:47pm
45 and LP version (about 3:10)
As far as I can tell, the 45 and LP versions are the same. Both are produced by Gary Langan, with "Additional production and mix by Paul Staveley O'Duffy and Hipsway". I myself have only heard one 3:10 version of the song. I suspect that the 12" needed to give a name to the 3:10 version, and the album might not have come out yet so it couldn't be called an LP version. I think something similar happened with Taylor Dayne's "Tell It To My Heart". It seems a little redundant to have 7" Version be part of the title of the song on the 7", but I suspect that it's there to indicate that it's the same 3:10 version that's on the 12".
The opening attack fades in in both channels, with the initial fade-in whoosh being louder in the right, and the attack sound being mostly in the left. This is an important detail for later.
The band was signed to Mercury worldwide, but Columbia in the US. It's still weird for me to see the Mercury label for the Hipsway releases.
The song first appeared on CD was on the Mercury release of the Hipsway CD (1986 release, outside the US). The opening fade-in whoosh is entirely on the right, with nothing at all in the left channel until the attack sound. After the attack sound, the right channel fades quickly to zero, so that the opening repeating guitar line is just about entirely in the left with nothing going on in the right channel. It sounds just fine here, with the tail of the fade running out to 3:10. The song uses a drum machine and runs at 111.1 BPM throughout. The same analog transfer is used on:- Sony Germany's 2-CD Pop And Wave Vol. 7 (1997) - digitally exactly 2 dB louder
In the US, the song first appeared on the Columbia release Hipsway CD from 1987. The intro seems to have been mixed very slightly different. Here, the opening fade-in whoosh sound fades in in both channels (although much louder in the right), and the attack sound seems to have some reverb on it so that it doesn't decay nearly as quickly over the opening repeating guitar line. Maybe the soundstage is narrowed here, because there's a bit of the opening repeating guitar line in the right channel that is much quieter on the Mercury release. Otherwise, it sounds basically the same as the Mercury release, but a teeny bit slower at 111.0 BPM throughout. The same analog transfer is used on:- Sony's Don't Touch My 45's (1994)
- EMI's Living In Oblivion Vol. 5 (1995) - Something's wrong with the intro. I think the right channel intro is run through a gate, because it has silence until the first attack (instead of fading in), then retreats quickly with a static-y transition to a low volume. Avoid.
- Realm's mail-order 3-CD Greatest Hits Of The '80s Vol. 1 (1995) - differently EQ'd digital clone of Don't Touch My 45's
- Sony's Hits Of 1987 (1999) - digital clone
- Time-Life's Another Lost Decade Hard To Find Hits (2005) - digitally identical to Living In Oblivion Vol. 5, so also has same problem on the intro as that disc. Avoid.
Any of the above sound just fine, except the two I labeled as "avoid". Grab whatever you can get your hands on.
One outlier: A Dutch multi-artist compilation on Mercury, manufactured in W. Germany, called Hits On CD Vol. 5 (1986). It runs much too fast here, at 112.6 BPM throughout. But it also seems to have the narrowed soundstage on the intro, like the Columbia version.
If you want the versions released in the US (exact same intro), go with the Columbia Hipsway CD (1987), Sony's Don't Touch My 45's (1994), the Realm disc, or Sony's Hits Of 1987 (1999).
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Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 25 July 2022 at 9:21pm
The 2016 Hipsway 2xCD deluxe edition (UK only) is a good source for the non-US version, and it also contains the Extended Version and Galus Mix, all with great EQ and dynamic range.
As for the musical differences between the US & non-US versions, if I understand correctly, it seems to just boil down to the U.S. version having added or just louder-mixed reverb which is only noticeable on the intro & outro.
And then aside from that, there are these mastering issues:
• the botched Living in Oblivion/Another Lost Decade intro, mainly muting the right channel "woosh"
• the left & right channels being swapped, like on the U.S. album (so the intro woosh is on the left)
• some European compilations play it slightly fast
• some compilations cut off the beginning of the "woosh", fading it up (too) quickly
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 27 July 2022 at 1:53pm
Thanks to Chuck M, I can post comparisons between the 1986 Mercury Hipsway CD (outside US) and the 1987 Columbia Hipsway CD (US):
Track 1 ("The Honeythief") on the Columbia release has a slightly narrowed soundstage compared to the Mercury release. It's most noticeable on the intro. The narrowing seems to have been done in the analog domain, because the Mercury and Columbia releases run at slightly different speeds (111.0 BPM vs. 111.1 BPM - insignificant to anyone not doing an A/B test). This is a really small difference, and I'm not surprised that no one noticed it for 35 years.
Track 2 ("Ask The Lord") is drastically overhauled on the Columbia version.
The Mercury release includes the original version of "Ask The Lord", which has a jittery drum machine track throughout. The original version was the second Hipsway single in the UK (after "The Broken Years"), and dented the bottom of the UK pop charts in September 1985.
The Columbia release includes a new version of "Ask The Lord", which has a live drummer playing throughout. I can't tell if it's a rerecording or just a drastic remix. The new version was the fourth Hipsway single in the UK (after "The Honeythief"), and dented the bottom of the UK pop charts in May 1986.
Tracks 3-9 are essentially the same on the Mercury and Columbia releases. All are digital clones, but some fall slightly out of synch about 30 seconds before the end of the song. The Columbia release hastens the fades on most of the tracks by a relatively insignificant amount, most by less than a second.
The Mercury CD includes three additional tracks 10-12, which are extended versions of the three singles from the album. These aren't on the Columbia CD at all.
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Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 27 July 2022 at 3:18pm
The 1986 album is all that's available on Qobuz. The album
isn't even available on iTunes.
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