"Kyrie" - Mr. Mister
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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Printed Date: 11 May 2025 at 6:05am
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Topic: "Kyrie" - Mr. Mister
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Subject: "Kyrie" - Mr. Mister
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 4:22pm
| According to abagon, the actual and printed commercial 45 run time of Mr. Mister's "Kyrie" is 4:10. The only reason I post this is because the vast majority of database CD appearances showing a "45 version" comment run :03 longer. |
Replies:
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 5:11pm
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How can this be?
"Kyrie" commercial single version ends abruptly cold with no reverb trail. Is there a pitch difference?? Andy |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 04 September 2008 at 5:22pm
I always wondered which version was on the commercial single. My 12" promo copy has the version with the cold ending on one side, and a slightly longer version with a fade ending on the other. I seem to recall hearing both versions on the air. |
AndrewChouffi wrote:Posted By: bwolfe
Date Posted: 05 September 2008 at 5:31am
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Were all 45's pressed on purple vinyl?
I have a picture sleeve along with the commercial copy pressed on purple vinyl. Hyyker is correct. That's how the 12 inch was pressed for airplay. 1985 was my first year in radio with "Broken Wings" and then "Kyrie". ------------- the way it was heard on the radio |
Posted By: abagon
Date Posted: 05 September 2008 at 7:25am
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I have 2 US commercial 45s of the "Kyrie". One is the purple vinyl, the other is the black vinyl. Both 45s are the same actual running time (4:10).
|
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 05 September 2008 at 8:18pm
| I couldn't pass up http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/YahShure/MrMister-KyrieGrunt.jpg - this reissue copy pressed on the wrong label stock . |
Posted By: bwolfe
Date Posted: 06 September 2008 at 6:49am
|
That's a howl!
A co-worker remembers buying what he thought was "Elenore" by the Turtles only to have "You Showed Me" instead. The wrong label was applied to "You Showed Me." I'm sure that could be a long lengthy thread concerning pressing plant mistakes. ------------- the way it was heard on the radio |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 06 September 2008 at 9:51pm
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Love the Grunt label!
The closest I've come to owning one of those is a Level 42 single ("Running In The Family", I think) that was mistakenly pressed on Mercury instead of Polydor. Saw it with my own eyes, and should have bought when I had the chance. |
Posted By: jrjr
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 5:05pm
| i love the grunt records pressing! dj promo of "kyrie" (purple vinyl) has edited 45 version which trims the ethereal keyboard and vocals and starts on synth riff... after listening to the flip side (45 version; cold ending, 4:10) doesn't sound like the edited version can be created from 45 version because of ethereal keyboard overlap... time of edit and actual time of 45: 3:38 |
Posted By: MCT1
Date Posted: 08 September 2008 at 7:30pm
I actually have one of those. IIRC, I found it in a used bin at Main Street Records in Northampton, Mass., about ten years ago. I don't think it dawned on me that it was on the wrong label until I got it home and went to file it with my other 45s by Level 42. I just pulled my copy out -- the text on the label mentions Polydor in two places (in the copyright notice and in the album credit), and it has a picture sleeve which correctly has the Polydor logo on it. My copy was pressed by RCA, and has a severe case of the label oxidation (or whatever it is) that often seems to plague RCA labels from this era. I'm guessing that RCA also pressed the "Kyrie" 45 on Grunt. IINM, the only U.S. plant that RCA still pressed vinyl at in this era was their Indianapolis facility, and it ceased doing so right around this time. Maybe quality control was lax towards the end, or they were even doing this deliberately, to get rid of excess inventory of label blanks. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 09 September 2008 at 5:51am
Probably the weirdest one I have is what appears to be a Bobby Goldsboro single on UA is actually "Never Never Gonna Give You Up" by Barry White. Clearly UA & 20th Century used the same pressing plant. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:34pm
| My laptop was out of commission when this topic first came up last fall, and I must've overlooked it while catching up. Tonight, while browsing the database, I noticed that only one version of this song is referenced. But my purple-vinyl promo 45 has both long and short versions included. One side has a non-described, listed & actual (4:10) version, which is the same as the stock 45 version. However, the other side of my promo 45, which states (Edited Version), has both a listed & actual time of (3:38), and also ends cold. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 8:20pm
| Which side of the DJ 45 did your station play, Jim? The 4:10 side, or the 3:38 side? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 9:35pm
| John, we played the (4:10) side. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 11 March 2010 at 12:53pm
| There are a handful of big hits from the '80s that I've always thought sounded like vinyl on all CDs. The 45 version of "Kyrie" is one of them. I don't hear any vinyl noise, per se, but the tonal quality sounds harsh especially toward the end. I have these same suspicions about "Rock Me Amadeus" (American Version) and "I Can't Wait" by Nu Shooz. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 11 March 2010 at 9:30pm
|
Revisited this song on my compilations, and thought I'd share my findings.
The LP version (fade out) was the first to appear on CD, on the full Welcome To The Real World CD that I don't have, on Nipper's #1 Hits 1956-1986 that I don't have, and on the Realm compilation (from Columbia House) Gold And Platinum Vol. 3 (1987, where it may be a slightly early fade). The first appearance of the cold ending on CD was most likely in the TM Century library, which I don't have. What I do have is the version used on The A List Disc 34 (1994), which runs 4:10. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a very clean transfer from vinyl, most likely from the promo 12". It runs about 89.8 BPM on The A List, in case anyone wants to compare it with the vinyl. The first time the cold ending appeared on a commercially available CD was on Rhino's Billboard Top Hits - 1986 (1994, runs 4:13). It actually runs a little slower than The A List (about 89.1 BPM), but has a longer run time because the opening synthy loop doesn't fade in (as it does on The A List) - it just starts at full volume on Billboard. Sound quality is very nice, although it's mastered really loud and clips quite a bit. Other CDs that use the same analog transfer as Billboard are Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties - 1986 (1994), Warner Special Products' 2-CD Sweet Love (1996), Time-Life's Modern Rock - 1986-1987 (1999, digitally exactly 2 dB quieter than Sounds Of The Eighties). The cold-ending version on Rhino's 7-CD Like Omigod is excessively loud, and would be considered maximized. Avoid. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 9:03am
| I just listened to this track from the Best Of on Rhapsody and it runs 4:10. To me, it has signs of being a vinyl transfer. Is that possible? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 11:49am
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John, I've always suspected that this song (at least the 45 version) was
mastered from vinyl. It just doesn't sound clean to my ears, especially toward the end. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 12:00pm
What's interesting about the A List Disc (and I presume the TM Century disc, too) is that they used the LP version up until the very end. Then, they spliced on the cold ending from the vinyl. The way you can tell is that there is an ad lib of the word "night" on the LP version, whereas it is missing from the 45 version. The ad lib starts on the A List Version and then switches to the 45 ending. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 9:17pm
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You bring up an interesting question, Aaron: is the same ad-lib also on the Billboard release, meaning we DON'T have the 45 single version on CD? Or is it accurate (even if it may be a vinyl drop)?
Incredible info as always, all of you! Thanks for sharing this information. ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 September 2011 at 10:05pm
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Billboard disc is correct (and I would presume the others are correct, too)--no ad lib. This is just a case of TM trying to create the 45 version and getting it wrong. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: prisdeej
Date Posted: 15 January 2012 at 9:22pm
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Was the ad lib on the 3:38 edited version? ------------- DJ L. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 8:42am
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To Prisdeej:
No. Andy |
Posted By: Fetta
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 9:09pm
| Heard Sirius/XM play what sounded like the promo version? Does this exist on CD anywhere? |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 08 February 2013 at 4:43am
|
I think I'm asking what Fetta was asking last Fall: is the 3:38 version available on CD? ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 08 February 2013 at 9:52am
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Not that I know of, Gene. Check your email, though. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 August 2019 at 2:00pm
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As I was listening to the promo 12" this afternoon, I fully expected the "Fade End" version to be the LP version/mix. To my surprise, this is actually the 45 version/mix, but it has a slightly longer ending that fades out (similar to the LP version). The main difference between the two versions is that the 45 mix has a tambourine throughout, whereas the LP version does not. Also, the ethereal keyboard opening starts at full volume on both mixes of the 12" single, but it fades in on the LP version. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 24 August 2019 at 9:12pm
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Nine and a half years later, it's time to revisit "Kyrie".
"Broken Wings" was the first single from Welcome To The Real World. If I recall correctly, the album was released before the second single, "Kyrie". The first version of the song to appear anywhere was the album version. LP version (printed 4:24 on LP label and CD) The LP version fades in with the warbly keyboards. The first piano chord is at 0:07. The first sung note is at 0:08. The bassline kicks in at 0:33. The bassline is the only instrument behind the vocals in the first verse, from 0:44 to 1:06. The LP version fades from 4:06 to 4:25. (Times are from the Welcome To The Real World CD.) The first CD with the LP version was on RCA's Welcome To The Real World (1985). It sounds fine here, with a huge dynamic range, about 2 dB of headroom, a reasonable EQ, and no evidence of noise reduction. It runs at 89.9 BPM throughout, with no drift. The same analog transfer is used on an RCA sampler called Super Sampler (1986). It has the same fade points, also runs at 89.9 BPM throughout, and has about 6 dB of headroom. There's a different analog transfer on Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 3 (1987). It runs at 89.4 BPM, has the fade points at the same places in the song (no early fade), and has about 2 dB of headroom. Sound quality is about the same for all three of these CDs. 45 version (printed 4:10, called "Acapella End" on B-side of promo 12 inch single, unlabeled on A-side of promo 45) The 45 was on purple vinyl, which was pretty cool. "Sara" by Starship was on blue vinyl. RCA had fun in 1985. The 45 is a different mix than the LP version (added tamborine and splashy percussion effects starting at 0:32). The 45 version starts with the warbly keyboards at full volume. The first piano chord is at 0:07. The first sung note is at 0:08. The bassline kicks in at 0:32. There is a tamborine and some other splashy percussion effects over the bassline starting at 0:32 and continuing through the first verse. I think the tamborine continues throughout the song, but it's easiest to hear from 0:32 to 1:10. The 45 structure matches the LP version until 4:07, with an a capella ending from 4:07 to 4:12. (Times are from the Billboard Top Hits 1986 CD.) The 45 version showed up first on Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1986 (1994). It sounds a little odd here. Brittle EQ, extremely fast transition to silence after the a capella ending, possible turntable rumble under the a capella ending (listen for three low-frequency rumbles, which may correspond to the same location on a record as it rotates). I noticed a small drift in tempo from 89.0 BPM to 89.1 BPM - not significant by any means, but it's real and it's not present on the LP version. All of this points to the Billboard disc possibly taking the song from vinyl. The following CD all use the same analog transfer as Billboard Top Hits 1986:
Promo 12 inch single version (printed 4:31, called "Fade End" on A-side of promo 12 inch single) Aaron noted that the promo 12 inch single version is not the LP version, as one would expect. I found what I believe to be the promo 12 inch single version on a fairly obscure compilation, The Number Ones The '80s (Simitar 55612, 1998). This version starts with the warbly keyboards at full volume, and follows the structure of the LP version with a fade at the end from 4:07 to 4:28, which is past where the LP version ends. It runs at 90.0 BPM on this CD. But, it's not the same mix as the 45! Listen to the splashy percussion in the first verse, from 0:44 to 1:06 - it has no reverb in this version. In the 45, the splashy percussion has a huge amount of reverb. My guess is that this mix was the first attempt at a 45 mix from the LP version. It does punch it up with added percussion, but keeps the same song structure as the LP version. My hunch is that someone at RCA wanted to punch it up even more, by adding effects on the added stuff and adding a very cold ending. All just a hunch; I have no way to confirm. Promo 45 version (printed 3:38, called "Edited Version" on B-side of promo 45) We know that it starts with the bassline, and likely uses the same mix as the 4:10 45 (can't confirm). Doesn't exist on CD. LP version with grafted-on 45 ending This didn't exist in 1985. I found this on swaitek's The A List Disc 34 (1994). The first 4:06 uses the same analog transfer as Welcome To The Real World, with the absolute polarity inverted (insignificant). It runs 89.8 BPM throughout. The 45 ending is from 4:06 to 4:10. I can't tell where the 45 ending came from. I'm 99% certain this was an in-house edit at TM Century, but can't confirm. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 25 August 2019 at 9:51am
I'm doing an A/B between the Billboard 1986 disc and the Number Ones of the '80s (Simitar) disc, and the mixes sound the same to me. The Rhino disc runs about 1% slower and has a much brighter EQ, though, which is why I think the percussion doesn't "punch" as much on the Simitar disc. This obscure compilation you found does, indeed, have the promo 12" version, which is the 45 mix but without the acapella ending. EDIT: Ron pointed out the difference I should've been listening for, and I do hear what he's talking about. There's a "thwack" sound effect on the word "mountainside." It's dry on the promo 12" version (and Simitar CD) and has heavy reverb on the 45 version w/acapella ending. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 25 August 2019 at 9:58am
For years, I've thought the same thing, but after hearing the "Fade End" version from the Simitar disc, I no longer think so. I think it's a combination of how the song was mastered originally and the EQ choices of the Rhino disc. The three low frequency noises you hear during the acapella ending are not turntable rumble at all. In fact, they are the boomy drums bleeding into the vocal. These drums can be heard at the 3:02 mark of the song, which is possibly the segment of the vocal that the engineer used for the ending. Also, the promo 12" vinyl ends exactly like the Rhino disc with an extremely fast transition to silence. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 25 August 2019 at 11:48am
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I found a good example: Listen for a splashy percussion sound at the end of the phrase "mountain side" at around 0:46. On the BB disc, it's really reverb-y. On the Simitar disc, it's still there, but it lacks the reverb.
I'd like to figure out the source of the mastering for the Simitar disc. Based on the playing time, I suspect that it's RCA's Nipper's #1 Hits 1956-1986. I'll be happy to do comparisons if someone sends me a CD rip. Nice catch on the drums bleeding into the vocals. I wasn't sure what to make of it. And it would be a little weird if Rhino, in 1994, couldn't get tapes for a common hit, from a big label, from just eight years earlier. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 25 August 2019 at 9:09pm
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Thanks to Aaron, I can confirm that the Simitar CD uses the same analog transfer as RCA's Nipper's #1 Hits 1956-1986 (1989). I'd also guess that any discs in the database with a run time of 4:27-4:29 are also the promo 12 inch single version, rather than the LP version.
And the sounds in question on the 45 mix are thwacky synthy percussion sounds, a lot like the hard-to-describe sounds in the rhythm track in "Broken Wings". There's one that starts on the downbeat immediately following the end of the phrase "mountain side" around 0:46. On the 45, it starts in the left channel and echoes into the right channel. On the promo 12 inch single, it's dry (more of a thud) and entirely in the left channel. I think we have everything covered for this song for now. We'll revisit in another nine years! ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 26 August 2019 at 5:19am
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Does anyone out there have a dub of the A-list / TM Century version that I could hear?
Thanks, Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 August 2019 at 7:42am
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Andy, I think Ron may have already sent this to you, but I'm 100% positive this is a TM Century in-house job. They had the right idea but the wrong mix. My guess is that when they first issued it on GoldDisc, the Rhino disc had not yet come out, and someone tried to create the hit version by tacking the acapella ending onto the LP mix and didn't notice the mix difference nor get the edit point correct. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 August 2019 at 9:39am
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Has anyone determined the reason for the :03 difference
between the actual 45 and the 45 versions in the database? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 August 2019 at 9:44am
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Does the 45 have the vocal echo at the end? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 August 2019 at 10:51am
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The :03 difference is because the CD runs about 1% too slow.
I'm not sure what you mean by "vocal echo," but the US stock 45 has the acapella vocal ending. There's no echo or trailing reverb on the vocal. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 8:15pm
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Revisting this for me!
I have 2 dubs from the 45 and both have the cold vocal ending. When I heard this in 1985, this was the version I heard on radio with no fade out. I also assume the radio edit starts with the syth playing after the eerie vocal. Just want to make sure got it right. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 10 June 2020 at 9:43pm
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The only version I heard was with no fade out on the radio edit and the cold vocal ending. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: promojunkie
Date Posted: 02 July 2021 at 7:35pm
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I wish the edited version would make it to cd. I've
searched high and low for a decent promo 45 for the edited (3:38) version. After purchasing 2 45's that were hard to clean up due to pops and scratches, does anyone have a clean version they can send? I would be most appreciative. ------------- Rick |
Posted By: davidlg1971
Date Posted: 02 July 2021 at 8:59pm
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I remember hearing the edited intro version on the radio in Northern California, back in 85/86. Based on this thread, last year I tracked down a NM promo 7"(RCA PB-14258)
and ripped it myself. And despite my cheap-ish gear, it came out okay. I also grafted the unique intro to a CD-source of the single version, so it's less than 20 seconds of vinyl, then the rest is CD. And then later on I found the 'Edited Intro' on two TM Century discs: https://www.discogs.com/Various-GoldDisc-133/release/16090425 - GoldDisc 133 https://www.discogs.com/Various-Golddisc-919/release/11040048 - GoldDisc 919 The version on GoldDisc 133 is definitely a vinyl rip, and it has a seriously shrill EQ - as if they were trying to mask the source of the audio. The version on GoldDisc 919 sounds better. If it's a vinyl rip, it's a pretty good one.
Sure thing - I'll send you a PM. |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 03 July 2021 at 9:30pm
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David, would like to hear the gold disc edit also.
Thanks in advance. |
Posted By: kaqueno
Date Posted: 04 March 2022 at 7:59am
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In 1999 in Argentina, FM Aspen 102.3 edited the CD called
"Aspen Music", which included "Kyrie" in the 45 promo version, with the edited intro and the cold ending, with an approximate time of 3:40, the sound it's pretty good. If you want a copy to listen to just let me know. https://www.discogs.com/release/11911727-Various-Aspen- Music-1023-Fm-Aspen the cd also includes edited versions of: - Foreigner– I don't want to live without you - Jude Cole - Tell the truth Cheers. ------------- Marcelo - Argentina https://www.mixcloud.com/marcelo-guzman4/ - https://www.discogs.com/user/kaqueno/collection |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 24 February 2025 at 11:51am
In my opinion, you're not hearing turntable rumble on the acapella ending but rather some headphone and room "bleed" that exist on the (many) vocal tracks. It's likely that when they were tracking all those stacked vocals that they didn't originally intend for them to be isolated so they weren't too concerned with ambient leakage. If you listen close, the rumble only occurs in spots that the drum beats would be happening. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |