air supply "making love..nothing at all"
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3444
Printed Date: 04 May 2025 at 11:17pm
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Topic: air supply "making love..nothing at all"
Posted By: edtop40
Subject: air supply "making love..nothing at all"
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 7:40pm
my commercial 45 of air supply "making love out of nothing at all" issued as arista 9056 states a run time on the label as 4:29 but actually runs 4:54
 ------------- edtop40 |
Replies:
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 7:44pm
| I hereby nominate Air Supply as the group who issued the MOST 45s with incorrect run times, in the history of Top 40 music. Nice job with all of these, Ed! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 7:48pm
| The 45 version of this song is on the UK import disc that Todd eluded to in another Air Supply thread. Making Love...The Very Best Of Air Supply. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 7:51pm
|
jim....yes....i agree.....they are 11 for 11 with incorrect run times versus actual times....and...not even close on a few of them.....who was running the show at arista during this time......how could they be so careless in their attention to detail? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 12:44am
| I believe in this case the time was deliberately under reported, to make the single more palatable to radio. Jim Steinman (who wrote it) has a penchant for writing these long, epic dramas. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 4:29am
|
I'd have to really check but I always believed that a couple of labels, RSO, Arista, would often not include the intro in the song's time.
Although I never actually tested that theory. |
Posted By: abagon
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:15am
| I knew the existence of this LP version for the first time when I bought the Pat's book "8th edition". Because the japanese issue vinyl LP "Greatest Hits" includes the 45 version at that time. Good things of my life, this is the "Top 40 Music on Compact Disc" |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:29am
You're making me feel old. I knew of the LP version because I heard my radio station play it when it came out in 1983. :) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
abagon wrote:Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 10:27am
| Someone commented earlier that Air Supply is the artist/group with the most WRONG printed run times. I don't think this was so much an Air Supply trend as it was an Arista trend. I'd bet Manilow, Manchester, etc. have many wrong times as well. But an interesting theory is presented in this post -- that the intro times are not included in the Arista listed times. It would be interesting to see if that theory holds. Maybe it's a trend that started in the '80s or late '70s, because in 1975 "Could It Be Magic" clearly indicated the intro time AND the remainder of the song's time. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 11:34am
| I think you're right about this, Gordon. Arista has the worst track record when it comes to getting their printed run times accurate. We've indeed seen this with a number of Arista artists, including Barry Manilow, Melissa Manchester, Alan Parsons Project, Ray Parker Jr., Thompson Twins, among others. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:25pm
|
I think Arista holds the record for the most 45s with the *printed time* of 3:58.
(Actual running time of 4-something) j/k Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 9:14pm
| While it may have something to do with airplay, as mentioned above, I've looked into song licensing recently, and this may also be a reason. Licensing for a song up to 4:00 is done at a rate, today, of 9.1 cents per copy (the charge to the producer of the disc), whereas if it's longer than 4:00 the rate increases. I don't know what that means for the artists, but if it ties together, then perhaps it was a way for them to pay fewer royalties to the artists. Perhaps an insider (i.e. Gordon) can shed some light. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 10:32pm
|
Yes. Actually, the time in question, however, is the 5:00 mark. Anything over 5:00 gets a higher rate than the standard statutory rate of (currently) 9.1 cents per song. Luckily, I've had one cut that fit in this category -- it was 5:03, and I did receive a higher royalty rate. This rate, has nothing to do with artists royalties, though. It's what the songwriters and publishers get paid from the record labels.
If a 5:00+ song is wrongly listed as under 5 minutes, this may have been done by the record label to save on the amount of money they pay to the publishers/writers, but if the publisher/writer is savvy enough to realize their song is over 5 minutes, they would/should be able to get the higher rate, because the actual time is what counts here and not the printed time. In fact, when the licenses are drawn up between the label and publisher, the 45 hasn't been printed yet, so the incorrect listed time shouldn't even be a factor at that point. Plus, my guess is that those shorter times were really done to get more radio stations to play their singles. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 May 2008 at 7:45am
| Thanks for the info, Gordon. It probably is likely, then, that it had much to do with airplay. Well, it's probably so that programmers would even LISTEN to the song, because it would become quite obvious the actual length when they went to time it for airplay or put it on a cart. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 10 May 2008 at 10:40pm
| Nice picture sleeve, Ed! Thanks! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 22 February 2009 at 2:22am
| I just noticed in the database that this song is designated by a "version". I always thought this song was just an early fade. So where is the edit in this 45? I'm surprised no one's ever brought this issue up. Is the edit somewhere in the outro? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 22 February 2009 at 2:29am
| While on the subject of this 45, does anyone know if the non-LP B-Side "Late Again" has been issued on CD, either here or overseas? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 22 February 2009 at 9:26am
I do believe the edit is somewhere around the (4:06) mark. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: abagon
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 12:57am
The "Late Again (live version)" has been issued on CD in Japan. I possessed it temporarly. The CD title is "It's Not Too Late - The Best Of Air Supply". The market prices in used CD sellers are under $10 in Japan now. The track list: 9 songs from the "Greatest Hits" plus "Late again (live version)", "It's not too late ", "I'll never get enough of you". "Making Love Out Of Nothing At All" is the "45 version" and another top 40 hits are all the "LP version". --abagon |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 2:51am
| Thanks for the info. |
Posted By: prisdeej
Date Posted: 04 August 2011 at 2:45pm
|
Bumping this back up. I have this one on TM Century & Rhino's Billboard Top Hits - 1983. They both run 4:58, but the version on Rhino sounds pitched up.
I believe their is an edit around 4:08, the piano sounds slightly louder, following an entirely different note on the Rhino version. On the TM Version, it doesn't sound to be edited at that point. I'm thinking this may have been another homemade edit by TM. Was the 45 pitched up? ------------- DJ L. |
Posted By: vinyljay69
Date Posted: 31 March 2017 at 12:50pm
|
I have found multiple inaccurately recreated edits on TM, and consequently don't trust their discs. So while I can't speak to their edit in this case, I can say the recreated edit on BBTH83 is incorrect.
The single has only 2 edits - both of which are muffed on BBTH83 - and an early fade. Cut the passage from 3:56 to 4:10 on the word "love". With what remains, cut from 4:10 to 4:23 on "making love". Fade from 4:42 to right at 4:54. There doesn't seem to be a significant pitch difference, if any. Rhino's first edit comes at 4:06, so they use the wrong piece of the chorus - the vocal inflections are different. Their second edit comes at 4:11 on "out of nothing", so they miss a drum accent between beats 2 & 3. Their fade begins at 4:44 and lasts through 4:59, so while the edit is technically fine, it's not the true single edit. Pat's database lists a handful of CD's running 4:58 or 4:59 - they could all be sourced from the incorrect edit. There are also a handful that run 4:53 - the runtime looks correct, but I don't about the accuracy of that edit. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 31 March 2017 at 3:22pm
|
The source of my file of the 45 version says it comes
from Lost In Love (Disc 2). I don't remember if I recreated it or if this is the actual 45 version. I hope it is and not one of the apparent incorrect edits. :) |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 12:44am
|
Good ears again, VJ! You're on a roll!
LP version (about 5:40) I have the LP version on four CDs, two of which are the only (non-soundtrack) multi-artist compilations that include the LP version. The two compilations are Cema's Greatest Hits Of The 80's Vol. 5 Power Ballads (1994) and Madacy's Rock On 1983 (1996). Both discs are from the same analog transfer, and both sound pretty good. The LP version also appears on Arista's Air Supply Greatest Hits (1984), which has a dull-sounding EQ. And it's on Arista's Air Supply Definitive Collection (1999), which is a little loud and has a boomy-sounding EQ. I use Rock On 1983 in my own library. 45 edit (4:54) Using the timings from Rock On 1983, here are editing instructions for creating the 45 edit: Segment 1 Extends from 0:00.0 to 3:57.7 of both the LP version and 45 edit Ends on a tamborine hit Remove the 16 beats from from 3:57.7 to 4:11.6 of the LP version Segment 2 Begins on a tamborine hit Extends from 4:11.6 to 4:24.4 of the LP version Extends from 3:57.7 to 4:10.6 of the 45 edit Remove the 16 beats from 4:24.4 to 4:37.8 of the LP version Segment 3 Extends from 4:37.8 to 5:21 of the LP version Extends from 4:10.6 to 4:54 of the 45 edit Fade Fades from 5:10 to 5:21 of the LP version Fades from 4:43 to 4:54 of the 45 edit Your mixdown will have edits at 3:57.7 and 4:10.6, and will fade from 4:43 to 4:54. The true 45 edit does exist on CD, on Madacy's Rock On 1983 Sweet Dreams (1998) and EMI's Rock 'N Roll Relix 1982-1983 (1998; digitally exactly 1.371 dB quieter than the Madacy disc). The Madacy Rock On series does have some pleasant surprises, including the true 45 versions of "Footloose" and "On The Loose". And now, we can add "Making Love Out Of Nothing At All" to the list! The version on Arista's Arista's Perfect 10 (1984) has the edits in the right place (I think), but omits the fade and runs out to the LP version's fade, making it 24 seconds longer than the 45. This version also runs too slow and sounds like mud. You can do better for this track. Incorrect edit from Billboard Top Hits 1983 The true 45 versions that I noted above don't sound as good as the LP version, because they're one generation higher than the lowest-generation tape source. I can see why Bill Inglot (or someone working with him) attempted to re-edit using the LP version's source tapes. The version on Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1983 (1992) keeps 0:00.0 to 4:06.4 (downbeat), deletes 16 beats from 4:06.4 to 4:20.2, and picks up at 4:20.2. I didn't continue beyond 4:20, since this version didn't exist when the song was a hit in 1983. Great sound quality, but incorrect edit. The same analog transfer is used on:
------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 11:26am
|
Thanks for the heads up, Ron. Turns out, I had one of
the incorrect edits. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 December 2017 at 11:35pm
|
I missed the update to this thread earlier this year. Nice catch on discovering the incorrect Rhino edit! Splitting hairs a bit (but that's what we do here), the first edit point is at 3:56 on the word "love," exactly as VinylJay describes. Ron lists it as being on the tambourine, but you can clearly hear the tape splice on the Rock On 1983: Sweet Dreams copy, especially in headphones. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |