Barry Manilow-"Copacabana"
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3369
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Topic: Barry Manilow-"Copacabana"
Posted By: jimct
Subject: Barry Manilow-"Copacabana"
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 10:11am
| Just wanted to add to Pat's existing database notation for this song. The "long version" side of my commercial 45 has a listed time of (5:46), but an actual time of (5:43). FYI, I remember in the mid-to-late 90's, the PD of my station asking me specifically to bring in this "long version" (as you might expect, I was always the station's "auxiliary music library"), as they wanted to "spike it in." I did, but I was certainly a bit taken aback by both his request, and the song's apparent "oldies renaissance!" We CERTAINLY weren't in the business of spinning a whole lot of Barry Manilow tunes at this time - none, in fact! |
Replies:
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 12:54pm
|
So if I understand this and some previous posts on the subject correctly, all CD copies that run (3:58) are the short side of the 45 and all CD copies that run (5:43) are the long side of the 45. I think we had established a long while back that the (4:04) version is the Even Now vinyl LP version of "Copacabana" (yet CD copies of Even Now all use the long side of the 45 instead).
Am I close? Not that there's anything wrong with spinning a Barry Manilow song or two. :) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 10:53pm
More than five and a half minutes of Barry Manilow on a Top 40 station in 1997-ish? Wow! That is certainly odd. |
sriv94 wrote:Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 29 April 2008 at 7:47am
|
Didn't realize Jim's station was a CHR at that point. I was envisioning a station like WPLJ in New York, which was more Hot AC but had some occasional CHR moments. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 29 April 2008 at 9:05am
| Doug, the station I worked at was an AM/FM, "Mom And Pop" owned combo, back in the day. In the very late 70's, ownership reluctantly decided, at the behest of our AM's Program Director, to flip-flop our "Top 40/CHR" format, from the AM station over to our FM sister station. He kept the existing airstaff (lucky for me!), axing the "elevator music" that had been on the FM (which "Pop" owner loved!!!) in the process. (Ironically, we had the highest ratings in the AM's then-30+ year plus history, during that VERY last book; not very many AM Top 40's ever "went out on top.") Our FM "successor" remains CHR, to this day, through at least 4 ownership changes. So, between both the AM & FM, my station (which I retired from last year) has been playin' the Top 40 hits, non-stop, since 1958 (now in its 50th consecutive year!), and is among the VERY longest "continuous providers" of the Top 40/CHR format in the country. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 25 May 2008 at 1:13pm
|
A note: The 3:58 version was on first pressings of "Even Now" and the 45. Later pressings of the single and "Even Now" have the 5:43 Disco version. The original 3:58 version I have never seen on CD anywhere yet. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 May 2008 at 6:49pm
The US single had the 3:58 version on one side and the 5:43 version on flip. The 3:58 version was issued on early CD pressings of his "Greatest Hits," and is also available as a download: http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Vault-Mixes-Copacabana-Copa/dp/B00136Q7AM/ref=sr_f3_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1211766692&sr=103-1 - Copacabana - Dance Vault Mixes |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 7:49pm
|
Going through some 1978 tracks, and found an odd thing...
I have Arista/Legacy's The Essential Barry Manilow (2005), and for the most part, I really like the sound. (Mastered by Mark Wilder, who did a lot of the great-sounding CBS/Sony box sets from the early '90s - EWF, Chicago, Aerosmith I think...) The one track that I don't like on this CD is "Copacabana", which is much more compressed/limited than masterings on other CDs. Compare it to GH2, and it sounds like it has the life sucked out of it. Specifically, listen to the cowbells in the break at 3:23 - they sound spacious on GH2, and sound completely lost in the mix on Essential. The reason I revisited this thread is to point out something weird in the Essential mastering of this song. At 5:29, following a short drum fill, there's a drastic change in sound quality. Apparently, the last 16 seconds of the song uses a different tape source than the first 5:29 of the song. This is like the Whitney Houston 45 that grafts on the ending from a different source (don't recall those details off the top of my head.) Anyone else with Essential that wants to comment? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 18 June 2009 at 7:55pm
|
I see a (4:06) version as being available on the Madagascar 2 OST, but I'm not able to determine whether it's the Even Now vinyl LP version. Anyone want to give it a go? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 6:30pm
| Does anyone know if a US 45 of this existed, where the B-side was the Spanish version "En El Copa (Copacabana)? I could have sworn I'd seen and bought such a 45 back in 1978, though I don't have it now. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 01 October 2010 at 7:36am
Did we ever figure out whether the version on the Madagascar 2 OST is the Even Now vinyl LP version? The catalog number for the soundtrack is Interscope 001226402. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 October 2010 at 9:30am
Gordon, I don't think there was a 7-incher. I settled for the http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/YahShure/BarryManilow-EnElCopashortversion.jpg - 12-inch 45 which had the long Spanish version on the flip [listed time: (5:45).] We played "En El Copa" a lot at the station I was with, but it was probably from the 12-inch promo single. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 09 June 2011 at 7:46pm
------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 10 June 2011 at 7:25am
|
I just figured it out. It's the Complete Collection version (with the last seconds of the demo version tracking over the intro--the demo version itself is not included). ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 11 November 2014 at 3:22pm
|
So, 6 1/2 years after the Dance Vault mixes of
"Copacabana", all along I thought I had the true 45 version, running 3:58 with the release of the (radio) download. Come to find out, after hearing a 45 on YouTube, the intro of the radio download doesn't match the intro of the 45. Ed was kind enough to email me a wav file which matches the 45 dub on YouTube exactly. So, my question is, was the 2008 Dance Vault radio download a new edit in an attempt to match the 45? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 November 2014 at 3:36pm
|
Yeah, I wondered that, too. I don't know what that Dance
Vault version is, but I immediately noticed it was different. The version on some pressings of the original "Greatest Hits" album is the true Short 45 version. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 11 November 2014 at 7:09pm
|
OK, now I'm confused. Based on Ron's post in the Manilow "Greatest Hits - Different Versions" thread, he said something about the true 45 not having a bass drum in Barry's opening "Her name was Lola. . ." lyric. My short 45 version from the 1978 "Greatest Hits" CD does have a bass drum in the lyric.
So does the 45 Ed sent you have any drum in the opening line, John? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 11 November 2014 at 9:07pm
| I will send you a file for evaluation, Doug. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 11 November 2014 at 9:12pm
|
What Ed sent me matches the 45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkavl7nqfmA - here. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 11 November 2014 at 9:47pm
|
I'm pretty sure, after a quick evaluation, that the
Dance Vault Radio version eliminates the bongos in the beginning and may be the 4:05 version but starts :10 in, thus making it 3:56 or so. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 12 November 2014 at 7:15am
Indeed. So it's the short 45 that has the drum underneath the "Her name was Lola" lyric, while the "Even Now" vinyl LP version does not (and it runs six seconds longer, with two extra "Copacabana" background vocals near the end). Good. Thanks, John! (And Ed!) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 12 November 2014 at 7:36pm
|
I'm very confused by all this. How many versions of "Copacabana" are there, and how many were done in 1978? Are there two slightly different versions that clock in around 3:48, one with kick drums on the opening "her name is Lola" and one without? And was the 3:48 original 45 version DIFFERENT from the 3:48 original LP version (which was later replaced by the longer disco mix)? And these "Dance Vault" mixes that people are referring to here - were these released (and made) in the '90s or '00s? I believe there were some 1993 remixes of "Copa" (and "Could It Be Magic", too.)
As you can you see, I'm utterly confused now :) Maybe someone can explain all the different versions and where each one can be found on CD. Thanks. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 12 November 2014 at 8:29pm
|
As far as I remember, there were three English versions in 1978--the (3:58) "short" 45 version, the (4:04) "Even Now" vinyl LP version and the (5:46) "long" 45 version (aka the "disco version," which replaced the vinyl LP version on CD copies of "Even Now" and almost every other Barry Manilow hits CD since). (IIRC, the (5:46) version was the B-side of the (3:58) version.)
The "Even Now" vinyl LP version has at least three differences from the short 45--no drum in Barry's opening "Her name was Lola" line, and six more seconds of Lady Flash singing "Copacabana" twice after Manilow's second "don't fall in love" lyric (at about the (3:34) mark). The same drum difference also happens on Barry's "His name was Rico" lyric (present on the 45, not present on the "Even Now" vinyl LP). The mixes are slightly different as well. Otherwise, they're the same. Obviously the long 45 is way different. The long 45 is the most common version out there. The short 45 can be heard on some pressings of the 1978 "Greatest Hits" CD. The "Even Now" vinyl LP version has not actually appeared in its correct form on CD, but does appear on both the "Madagascar 2" soundtrack and the "Complete Collection And Then Some" box set with the demo version overlapping the opening bongos (the demo version is complete on "Collection" and edited on "Madagascar 2"). You could conceivably graft the opening bongos from the short 45 onto the two (4:04) versions to create the correct "Even Now" LP version, but I'm not sure how different the mix is at that point. Have little knowledge of the 1993 and "Dance Vault" versions. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 13 November 2014 at 2:59pm
|
Wow, that's so interesting. I had no idea there were 2 versions that clocked in around the 4:00 point. I always thought there was just the one, plus the 5:46 long disco version.
So, if I understand you, the short 45 has appeared on a few CDs (like the early pressing of "Greatest Hits" CD), but the original "Even Now" LP version appearing on "Complete Collection" but with its beginning overlapping with the prevous track. What is "Madagascar?" I'm working on a number of Sony Reissue projects including Barry Manilow. Maybe we can get this rare version of "Copa" on one of them. Is there no import that anyone here knows of that has the true original "Even Now" vinyl LP version on CD? |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 13 November 2014 at 4:12pm
|
"Madagascar" is the film and OST for the film. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 1:27am
Hmm, I wonder if it's an edit of the 4:05 vinyl LP version in an attempt to match the 45. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 10:06am
|
Still trying to sort through this. Excluding the long disco version for a moment, and concentrating on the shorter versions, the database says this:
(S) (3:54) Intrada 88 O.S.T. Foul Play (this is the short 45 version) -this seems to be the only CD that has the true 45 version (albeit 3 seconds faded early) But then for the early version of the 1978 "Greatest Hits" CD, it says this: (S) (3:58) Arista 8039 Greatest Hits (edited 45 version; What's the difference between the short 45 version and the "edited" 45 version? Now, as far as the 4:04 original "Even Now" LP version, this has never appeared on CD in its proper form, because all the 4:04 versions that appear on CD (and there are 4 of them), all have the first 6 seconds incorporating the fade of the previous track (the demo version of "Copa") which overlaps with it. I can understand that "Complete Collection" would have the overlap because it was prefaced with the demo of "Copa" - but this "Summer Breeze" comp and "Madagascar" soundtrack puzzles me. Do they also use the 1:32 demo version on these 2 CDs (preceding the released version of "Copa"), or do they just start cold where "Copa" would normally start but with overdubs of a faded version that doesn't even exist on these CDs? (That must sound weird, if so.) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 11:29am
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVnEfDH_kkE
It appears that "Madagascar 2" soundtrack used the "Complete Collection" CD as its source, so yes, the end of the demo version can be heard fading out over the intro. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 11:57am
I think it's just semantics with the way Pat made the entries. The only difference between the 1978 "GH" short 45 version and the "Foul Play" OST version is the fade. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 2:28pm
| Not true -- the Intrada versions is faster than the 45 and Greatest Hits version. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 8:04pm
I stand corrected. However, the (4:04) versions that aren't on the Complete Collection box (and aren't rerecordings) I don't believe should have the "previous selection tracks over the introduction for :06" notation. On Madagascar 2 the previous selection ("Foofie") does not track over the intro of "Copacabana." And remember, what was on the Even Now vinyl LP isn't what's on the Even Now CD. I'm 99.9% sure the (4:04) versions are the Even Now vinyl LP version, just with the end of the demo version over the opening. If you took the short 45 opening and grafted it over the first eight seconds of the (4:04) versions, you'd essentially have the correct version of the vinyl LP. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 16 November 2014 at 8:28am
|
To EdisonLite, yes the Madagascar 2 soundtrack version does sound
weird, listening to the song starting like that. Just goes to show you how sloppy and unknowledgeable most CD compilers are. Granted, this song has had a very complex release history that only the members of this board can get to the bottom of! To sriv94, yes if you graft the beginning of the 45 over the first six seconds of the "weird" version, you can essentially make the "Even Now" LP version. I did that the other day. I now have the version that I have been missing since the 70s (and remember hearing back then). ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 16 November 2014 at 11:09am
But rather than taking the beginning from vinyl, couldn't you take the first six seconds from CD - from the 3:48 single version that appears on some CDs - and graft that on to the "4:04 weird version" in place of the "Overlap" section? Wouldn't you then have the original LP version fully from CD? Or does the 1st 6 seconds of the "original LP short version" differ from the 1st 6 seconds of the "short 45" version? (I thought the only differences were the drums under the "Her name was Lola" verse parts, and the extra vocals at the end of the song due to the longer fadeout. |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 16 November 2014 at 6:13pm
|
sorry EdisonLite, i wasn't specific enough. I should have typed "short
45". Yes, I used the first few seconds from the Greatest Hits CD that features the short 45 version. ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 16 November 2014 at 7:04pm
And to be further technical, I clocked it at about 8.5 - 9 seconds instead of six before the cowbell/triangle/glockenspiel/whatever it is comes in. Easier to make a clean edit from there instead of trying to figure out where the demo version falls out (and my file still ends up at (4:05)). ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 November 2014 at 10:12am
| Thanks. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 November 2014 at 12:06am
|
Managed to hear a few Manilow LPs on vinyl.
Discovered that the original pressing of the 1978 Greatest Hits on CD exactly matches the double LP from 1978, right down to the spoken word ("Fabulous"?) at the end of the live version of "Daybreak". "Copacabana" is the 5:46 disco version on that LP and on the first pressings (non-RE-1) of the CD. Got to hear a rerelease of the Even Now vinyl LP, with an RE-1 in the matrix number. It has the 5:46 disco version of "Copacabana". These are not essential details, but I wanted to post them somewhere before I forget them. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 24 December 2014 at 12:05pm
|
Yes, the 5:46 Disco version of "Copacabana" replaced the
original LP version from second pressings of the "Even Now" LP from then on to the end of vinyl. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 12:45am
|
I've read through the 2 Copacabana threads and my head is spinning quite a bit. I'm doing research on unreleased (to digital & CD) Barry Manilow versions - for Sony. Excluding the 5:46 version from this conversation (as it's easily available), I'm confused about the 3:48 and 4:04 versions. Some CDs have the demo version overlapping with the intro. Pat says the Intrada version is faster. I know one version isn't a fade of the other, as was stated here once. (One version has 2 extra "Copa" lines by Lady Flash, more drums on 2 opening verse lines, and a slightly different mix). So which of the following 2 versions are available on CD (or iTunes) in their proper mixes, without a demo version over the intro, no wrong tempos (and if so, what CDs):
3:48 single version 4:04 original "Even Now" LP version For some reason, I can't access the song when I get into Pat's database. Have the 2 versions been released on CD/digitally without any problems? :) |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 1:16am
| OK, I just accessed the database - but I also noticed that Barry did a re-recording of this song for a CD called "Songs in the Key of Red". Apparently, there are 5 other top 40 hits on the CD, but this one is the only re-recording. I had no idea Barry ever re-recorded one of his hits years later. That's something he rarely does. Does anyone know anything about this, like is this done in a country style, for example? I wonder what the "key of red" refers to. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 4:35am
"Songs In The Key Of Red" was a collection of love songs released for Valentine's Day (hearts, red, get it?). I don't own the CD, so I'm not sure what that version of Copacabana sounds like or why it was a new recording. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 10:38am
| This version is a drastic remix with a psychedelic introduction. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 11:48am
| Thanks Paul and Pat for your answers. There are so many dance remixes of this song, especially from 1993 onward. I'll have to check my CDs to see if one has a psychadelic intro. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 11:52am
|
Pat's database indicated that the Varese Sarabande version of the "Foul Play" soundtrack CD has the true 4:04 original "Even Now" LP version (unlike the Intrada label version of the "Foul Play" soundtrack CD, which I have, and has the 3:48 single version.)
Has anyone checked the Varese Sarabande version to make sure to make sure it's the right mix, no extras on the intro, not an early fade of the long version, etc.? If so, it's the only version on CD. I'll probably buy from ebay or a 3rd party amazon seller, but even then, they could easily accidentally sell the Intrada CD, so I'll have to be careful and hope they can check first. The fact that 2 "Foul Play" soundtrack CDs have 2 different versions makes me wonder - which version was on the LP?? |
Posted By: Ron S
Date Posted: 25 October 2018 at 2:16pm
|
The album on iTunes only has the short 45 version of the song. It doesn't show
the LP version. Glad I was able to find the 45 version. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 09 December 2018 at 12:53pm
|
Update to my recent post: I bought the Varese Sarabande CD ("Foul Play" soundtrack) recently, and it does indeed have the original "Even Now" LP version - a longer version than the single version, but mostly the same mix, and not at all like the disco mix that eventually came to be the version used on Even Now LPs and all Even Now CDs. Ironically, the Intrada label version of the "Foul Play" soundtrack CD just has the single version. Does anyone know which version was on the original Foul Play LP? I wonder if Varese Sarabande or Intrada got it right.
I believe this is the only CD worldwide that has the original "Even Now" LP version. Until "Copa" came out as a single, this was the only version anyone (with the Even Now LP or Manilow fan) knew :) |