Starbuck-"Everybody Be Dancin’"
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Topic: Starbuck-"Everybody Be Dancin’"
Posted By: jimct
Subject: Starbuck-"Everybody Be Dancin’"
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 7:57pm
| Although not in the database, this song peaked at #38 in BB, back in 5/77. My commercial 45 has a listed time of (3:42) and an actual time of (3:44). FYI, a (3:45) version of this song appears on Vol. 24 of the Rhino "Super Hits Of The 70s: Have A Nice Day" series. |
Replies:
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 8:43pm
|
Jim,
Isn't the dub on the Rhino CD from noisy vinyl in MONO (when the actual 45 was stereo). I'm at work so I can't access the disc, but I do remember it sounded horific on that CD. Andy |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 11:02pm
| Yes, Andy, upon further review, it does appear in mono on that disc. It doesn't sound as bad to my ears as it does to yours, but I would agree it is a vinyl dub, same as many other recordings released we've found on CDs originating from the two 70's labels, Sussex and Private Stock. We've discussed before here on the Board that master tape warehouse fires took their toll on those company's audio output. However, the good news is that I just checked my Starbuck "Moonlight Feels Right" CD (Music Club 50145), and luckily, "Everybody Be Dancin'" is one of five "bonus tracks" added to the original 1975 LP. It is in stereo, runs (3:46), and sounds far better to me than its Rhino CD appearance. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 6:29am
|
Jim:
Thanks for the heads up regarding the Starbuck Moonlight Feels Right import CD. I believe Music Club is a U.K.-based record label, so it's possible they may have utilized master tape dubs that could very well still exist in Europe! |
Posted By: bwolfe
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 6:49am
|
I was always disappointed by the vinyl use on the "Have A Nice Day" series.
There has to be at least a dozen tracks taken from vinyl. I never knew about the warehouse fire. You learn something new everyday. Thanks for the info. ------------- the way it was heard on the radio |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 9:15am
| I have the domestic Starbuck "Moonlight Feels Right" CD which, like the Rhino Super Hits CD, uses vinyl, albeit it is cleaned better than the Rhino CD. The Starbuck CD also includes the #43 hit, "I Got to Know", which though from vinyl, you can barely tell. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 9:39am
|
Todd Ireland wrote:Posted By: rnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2008 at 7:41am
| For anyone interested I just purchased from Japan the first 2 Starbuck LPs on mini LP CDs (issued separately) Moonlight feels right and Rock'n roll rocket (which includes the BB top40 Everybody be dancin') They sound as they have been mastered from tapes (not vinyl. Label is Muskrat records and the series called Bittersweet America. I have not been able to find any info in the internet about this reissue label. I purchased it from an internet store in Japan. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 07 June 2008 at 11:32pm
| It's quite possible they were mastered from vinyl. There's a UK import of Starbuck that sounds pretty good, but to the trained ear, it's clearly from vinyl. Still, Japan could have had access to the tapes used in Japan as masters. That would be great if this really was from vinyl. |
Posted By: abagon
Date Posted: 10 June 2008 at 8:56am
|
2 Starbuck's cds are released by "VIVID SOUND CORPORATION" of indies and rerelease label in Japan.
http://vividsound.co.jp/index.php - http://vividsound.co.jp/index.php I don't know about those master sources. however "Rock'n Roll Rocket" is written "the world's first rereleased CD in the world" in Japanses on the web site. As EdisonLite remarks, I echo, because there is "the ELP laser turntable" in Japan. http://elpj.com/ - http://elpj.com/ I want it but it's so expensive. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 12:27am
|
I was doing some research and came across a very intriguing discovery at Starbuck's official website ( http://www.moonlightfeelsright.com - www.moonlightfeelsright.com ). The site has a CD for sale called The Official Starbuck and contains the following description:
The first and only Official Starbuck CD digitally mixed and mastered by Bruce Blackman, the producer, lead singer and writer of Starbuck. This CD contains the best of all three Starbuck albums on one CD (1976's Moonlight Feels Right, 1977's Rock and Roll Rocket and 1978's Searching For A Thrill) along with rare bonus tracks. This CD is the first ever official Starbuck release of these classic albums... The Starbuck name has been plagued with bootleg and fake recordings, but this is 100% the real deal from the man who created it. You can listen to samples of each CD track and purchase the disc by clicking http://www.moonlightfeelsright.com/moonlight_feels_right_online_store.html - here . To my ears, the songs all sound crystal clear on the web page's audio samples and leads me to believe that Bruce Blackman may have had access to the master tapes for this compilation! I sent an e-mail through the website asking if master tape sources were used and I will report back when I get a response. Also, on March 24, there is a Starbuck UK/European 2-fer CD scheduled to be released on the Cherry Red label which will feature the band's entire first two albums, Moonlight Feels Right and Rock 'N' Roll Rocket and will also include a few rare bonus tracks. I don't know anything about the Cherry Red label, but the http://www.amazon.com/Moonlight-Feels-Right-Rock-Rocket/dp/B001NE81A8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237705227&sr=1-1 - product description on the Amazon website reports that this "is 100% the real deal". |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 8:37am
Todd, I knew nothing about Cherry Red, either, until I purchased their Now Sounds subsidiary's http://www.amazon.com/Half-Past-Midnight-Staccatos-Beyond/dp/B001CC7FZS/ref=sr_1_2/183-4410861-2204409?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1237732290&sr=1-2 - Five Man Electrical Band - Half Past Midnight: The Staccatos And Beyond reissue a couple of months ago. This CD features nine Staccatos Capitol and Tower singles, along with the entire 1969 Capitol LP, The Five Man Electrical Band, at which point, The Staccatos adopted the album's title as their new name. The Now Sounds CD's sound quality on the earliest Staccatos singles is a definite improvement over other recordings of similar vintage that EMI Canada had previously released on the now-out-of-print Staccatos Initially CD. The eleven FMEB tracks sound great. Steve Stanley, the reissue CD's producer, did a great job on the liner notes, and the booklet is packed with photos. The back cover of the original Capitol FMEB LP is reproduced on the back of the booklet. And, just as a cherry tops off an ice cream sundae, the http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/YahShure/FiveManElectricalBandCD.jpg - CD's label incorporates the old Capitol color band logo for a nice finishing touch. (Edit: While I'm very happy with this CD, Bruce Blackman's remarks about Cherry Red in Todd's following post do make me more leery of them. The FMEB reissue was apparently done with the band's support.) |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 12:52pm
|
I checked my e-mail this morning and was delighted to have received a very informative response about The Official Starbuck CD by none other than lead singer Bruce Blackman himself! Here's what he had to say:
It is true that the Starbuck stereo mixes were destroyed in a fire. The CDs they talk about on your site came from practice mixes that were in mono. These mixes were sent to Larry Uttall just so he could hear the songs. Most of these came from my original recordings that were made in my basement on a Tascam 1 inch 8 track. Others were simply taken from vinyl. Every single Starbuck CD ever released is bogus. Currently a company out of Holland has the mono mixes and is licensing them out to these labels. We're contacting all of them but as soon as we get rid of one, another pops up. They are all total ripoffs. The double CD that is listed on Amazon (not available yet) is one of these. The label is Cherry Red and I've had dealings with them before. They released CDs on my first group, Eternity's Children and after a lot of legal work, they were forced to pay us retro to the first sale. If they actually release the Starbuck CD, they'll be in for another surprise. They are not aware that Eternity's Children essentially became Starbuck. And the CDs out of Japan of the first two Starbuck albums are ripoffs as well. We get no royalty of any kind and they don't even bother to get HFA licenses. It's difficult to chase down these foreign companies but we are going after them. I got so tired of all these bogus releases that I decided to go ahead and do the real thing. (It took me over two years to complete this one). The "Official Starbuck CD" is the only real one. And yes, I own the masters and will be releasing all of the Starbuck material over time (about 50 songs). Bruce Blackman I sent Bruce a reply informing him that I plan to support his band's work by purchasing The Official Starbuck CD from his website, and I'd encourage anyone else interested to do the same, especially if you're also looking to obtain Starbuck's music in the best possible sound quality currently available. Since Bruce confirms the band's stereo mixes were all destroyed in a fire, I wonder if this means then that all stereo CD appearances of "Moonlight Feels Right" are dubbed from vinyl? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 4:49pm
| One step ahead of you, Todd. Around Noon today, I ordered the CD from the link you provided. If the online samples are any indication, then this CD will sound FABULOUS! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 23 March 2009 at 11:23am
|
A couple weeks ago, I asked David McLees (of Rhino Records fame) if Rhino used a tape or vinyl source for "Moonlight Feels Right" on their "Have a Nice Day" series. He said he was almost positive it was a tape source. I asked how, since the Private Stock tapes were all trashed. He didn't know the specifics, but recalled that Bill Inglot would sometimes find locations in the midwest that might have had, say, 2nd generation tapes of songs ... for instance, manufacturing plants in the midwest where in the '70s they were making copies of an album for that part of the country. This would explain why "Moonlight" sounds like it's from tape.
As far as this Bruce Blackman release, he's not really clear. He admits that the master tapes were destroyed, but so then, what are these? 2009 recordings? Mono master tapes from 1976? new mixes from the multi-track tapes? |
Posted By: MPH711
Date Posted: 23 March 2009 at 1:36pm
| I clicked on the Starbuck link a few posts up to listen to samples of "I Got To Know" and "Moonlight Feels Right" and they both sound very clean...however, to my ears it sounds like they added new drums to both of the tracks. Although the songs are the original hits, to me, the drum beats are different. Anyone else hear it like I did? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 23 March 2009 at 4:34pm
|
I just clicked on that link and listened, too. I played their 3 biggest hits: Moonlight..., I Got To Know, Everybody Be Dancin'
All are remixes. Not just tweaking of the old mixes, but it does seem like new instrumentation was added, too. The lead vocals on "Everybody Be Dancin'" seem like newly recorded vocals! What a shame. It seems like the Cherry Red release would be a better choice than buying the "Official" release, in terms of possibly getting the original mixes from tape. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 23 March 2009 at 4:41pm
|
Does anyone have a website address or email address for the Cherry Red label?
Also - I was re-reading the earlier posts here and with regards to the Japanese reissue of "Rock 'n Roll Rocket", I never reported back but I DID buy that CD, and it was taken from vinyl! So I guess not even the Japan record labels saved their master tapes of Starbuck! |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 23 March 2009 at 10:17pm
I highly doubt these would be 2009 rerecordings since, according to the Starbuck website, the band dissolved in 1980 and Bruce Blackman has been working independently on other business ventures. And Bruce couldn't have used mono masters on the "Official" CD because the audio samples available on the website are definitely in wide stereo. I took his e-mail to mean that even though all the stereo mix tapes were destroyed, he still owns the original session tapes and therefore was able to create new stereo mixes from them. That's the only scenario that would really make sense to me. I just ordered the CD, but I'll be disappointed if it turns out the music isn't faithful to the original mixes. |
Posted By: maciav
Date Posted: 24 March 2009 at 6:19am
|
Here is the link to the Cherry Red website.
http://www.cherryred.co.uk/ I have bought some of the Osmonds CDs from this label, and they all sound great! In fact, they just released some of the Marie Osmond albums that were out of print, if anyone is interested. And all are orginal versions / mixes as far as I can tell. ------------- Mike C. from PA |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 24 March 2009 at 6:56am
|
First, "Moonlight Feels Right" definitely sounds like it's from tape on the Rhino Have A Nice Day disc, and in stereo.
"Everybody be Dancing" on the same series sounds like it's a needle drop to me. I never paid attention to how mono it is, and I do not use headphones. What Bruce Blackmon has are the multitracks. That's how he was able to remix everything. It is the original stereo mixdown tapes allegedly burned up in the fire. Various Private Stock material has been turning up on tape, like Cyndi Grecco's "Making Our Dreams Come True". As noted by someone else, there are most certainly tape copies in existence that pressing plants used back in the 70s. In the absence of the first generation mixdown tapes, using the copies is preferable to me, as I have no interest in new, revisionist mixes. Latter day mixers always tend to leave some sort of personal stamp on their work, or change something. Suffice it to say, they never sound the same as the originals. ------------- |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 24 March 2009 at 6:56am
|
Hi People,
I don't own the new Bruce Blackman mixed 'Official Starbuck' CD, but I do plan on buying it. For what it's worth, to my ears the samples DO sound like the original tracks (nothing re-recorded to my ears). It's just that whenever 8, 16 (or more) tracks are remixed 3 decades later it is difficult to get the exact sound of an old (creamy, murky) mix - or maybe Mr. Blackman wanted to get the mixes as crisp as possible without sounding totally revisionist. It just seems to me that reverb levels aren't exact, kick drum is more punchy, etc. making these mixes not clones of the 70's destroyed stereo mixes (which is normal). When I buy the CD I will do a more thorough comparison of the tracks and report, if other people don't beat me to it... Andy |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 March 2009 at 8:59am
|
<http://www.cherryred.co.uk/
I have bought some of the Osmonds CDs from this label, and they all sound great! > Actually, those Osmonds CDs are on the 7T's label, which is a subsidiary of Cherry Red. I've bought a dozen 7T's releases and all are from tape sources (with the odd exception of an occasional bonus cut that had to be taken from vinyl, e.g. a couple Drifters non-LP singles). That said, the people at 7T's clearly do their best to get tape sources, but the people who run Cherry Red are not the same as the people who run 7T's, so I don't really know if they are that conscientious about getting hard to find tape sources. If anyone buys their Starbuck CD, please report back here as to whether vinyl was once again used. I have the "Moonlight Feels Right/Rock'n Roll Rocket" 2-fer that came out in the U.S. - a good vinyl cleaning, but vinyl nonetheless - the easiest way to tell is to listen to the fades of songs on headphones, turn up the volume a bit, and see if there are any vinyl indications in those last few seconds. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 March 2009 at 9:07am
|
<First, "Moonlight Feels Right" definitely sounds like it's from tape on the Rhino Have A Nice Day disc, and in stereo. "Everybody be Dancing" on the same series sounds like it's a needle drop to me. >
The main reason why the same care did NOT go into finding a tape (from the same source location) for "Everybody Be Dancin'" is that this song was a last minute substitution when that last batch of 3 CDs (of "Have a Nice Day") was being put together. I know because Rhino was 5 songs short when completing these volumes and they called me to pick substitutions - I gave a list of about 15, and 5 of them were the last-minute substitutions - "Everybody Be Dancin'", "Get Used To It", "Save Your Kisses For Me", "Did You Boogie (With Your Baby)" and "Street Corner Serenade". (I also was involved with other selections that had earlier been chosen for those volumes (e.g. "Love Really Hurts Without You"). |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 24 March 2009 at 9:15am
|
<Various Private Stock material has been turning up on tape, like Cyndi Grecco's "Making Our Dreams Come True".>
Seriously? WHERE is that song on CD from a tape source? That would be incredible. Is it the single mix or the 30-second (or 60?) tv theme version? Also what other Private Stock songs have finally showed up from tape sources in recent years? <In the absence of the first generation mixdown tapes, using the copies is preferable to me, as I have no interest in new, revisionist mixes. > I agree with that assessment completely. There have only been a couple occasions where I'll go with the new mix over the old mix. One was the Supremes' "The Happening" and the other was the Rubinoos' B-side "As Long As I'm With You". In both cases, the new engineers were keeping in mind the original mixes, and I think the Supremes one just sounds better, clearer. The Rubinoos song had been only available on vinyl -- or this newer mix on the Varese Sarabande CD. The mixer in the Rubinoos camp tried to match the original mix - although the background vocals were unfortunately a bit lower - and he added some bell/chimes near the end of the song that either weren't there before or buried too low to ever hear. So it was choosing either that version, or my very distorted 45s (as they all were, and I had about 5 of them.) |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 25 March 2009 at 11:02am
Does this mean all five of these tracks are mastered from vinyl on those Rhino discs? Or is it just Everybody Be Dancin' plus Did You Boogie (With Your Baby)? ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 25 March 2009 at 12:25pm
|
Amazingly, just 2 days later, I've received the Starbuck CD ordered from the Starbuck CD.
First observations are that Moonlight Feels Right is not the original, or is a different take. The vocal inflection sounds different than from the Rhino CD. Besides that, on the Starbuck CD, Moonlight runs 4:10, :35 longer than on Rhino. "Everybody Be Dancin'", to my ears, sounds really close to the original, but I thunk there was remixing involved. I'll send some music out to the experts on the board and hopefully they can report back. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 25 March 2009 at 6:41pm
|
I just listened to a full-length dub of "Moonlight Feels Right" from the 'Official Starbuck' CD.
It does go on longer than the 45, it does sound very crisp; even the mix is not too far off from the 45. BUT...as MPH711 suggested, there is ABSOLUTELY a new drum track on this mix! (With just the 30 second sample I wasn't so sure.) The easiest way to tell it's a new drum track is to listen to the intro; there are no 'fills' on the drum track on the remix, where there are on the 45. Andy |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 25 March 2009 at 6:49pm
|
I just listened to a full-length dub of "Everybody Be Dancin'" from the 'Official Starbuck' CD.
The mix, while crisp, does not sound much like the 45. As MPH711 suggested, the drum track sounds new (it is possibly a 'triggered' drum track). Andy |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 25 March 2009 at 7:47pm
That's where I noticed it, too. The five-beat fill just before and onto the opening words "the wind" are AWOL on the new remix. Also at that same spot, you can now hear (and see) the intro level being potted down just prior to the vocal on the remix. The fills on the original mix masked that. The little stingers following "moonlight" and "feels right" during the hooks are also mixed differently, being split wider between the channels now. When summed to mono, they are way down in the mix. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 25 March 2009 at 8:56pm
| Gentlemen, thanks for your reviews. I've decided to list my CD on eBay. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 8:56am
|
<Does this mean all five of these tracks are mastered from vinyl on those Rhino discs? Or is it just Everybody Be Dancin' plus Did You Boogie (With Your Baby)? >
Just those 2. In the case of the other 3, the master tapes were easily and quickly found. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 10:55pm
|
Never trust the artist to remix or remaster... ------------- |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:43am
| I listened to all 3 top 50 singles (thanks to John G) on the new Starbuck "Official" CD. Clearly, Bruce Blackman had the multi-track master tapes in his hands but he chose to remix the songs, adding new instrumentation and sometimes even new lead vocals, instead of trying to match the original mixes. I would have preferred he (or a professional mixer) listen closely to the original mixes and match them exactly but that would take time, effort & money. I guess we'll have to listen to our cleaned vinyl sources (except for "Moonlight" which luckily was always from tape) if we prefer to hear the songs the way we remember hearing them. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 10:51am
|
I received my copy of the Official Starbuck CD in the mail and, while the sound quality is outstanding, I share in the disappointment that the songs aren't 100% faithful to the original stereo mixes. It appears Bruce may have been more concerned about getting the recordings to sound as clean and crystal clear as possible, even if it meant "reworking" certain instruments, to counter the plethera of poor sounding Starbuck vinyl dubs and bootlegs that exist in the marketplace.
Yet in Bruce's defense, I do believe a great deal of time and effort went into these mixes and I think the average casual listener would probably be satisfied with them. And since Bruce is independently selling and distributing this CD from his own website, it probably didn't make economic sense for him to spend over $100 an hour to hire an audio engineer to reconstruct the original stereo mixes for a CD compilation where the total sales would likely only recover a small fraction of the total engineering costs. Most of us on this message board are historical "purists" who want our Top 40 music to sound exactly the way we remember hearing it on the radio and buying it at retail. Unfortunately, our numbers make up a small minority of the music buying public and as a result we are sadly becoming increasingly irrelevant when it comes to economic business decisions in an era where CD sales are dropping at an alarming rate. But I'm glad Starbuck is at least making a little money on their music from whatever sales are being generated from the Official disc. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 5:56pm
------------- |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 6:59pm
No, he's saying he wishes the multi-track master tapes were used to faithfully recreate the original stereo mixes, rather than having new instrumentation added. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 12:18am
|
Well, I got an email from the man himself ... Bruce Blackman. He told me what went on and I thought I'd share it with everyone here. Now I realize it was not a case of him trying to be artsy and change the mixes to his liking in 2009. It was a case of some instrumental tracks -- like the drums -- being destroyed. And after reading what he wrote, I have a lot of respect for him. Here's what he wrote me about the 2009 "Offical Starbuck" CD:
My mixes came from the original multi-track masters (although it took me several years to restore them). Most were 8 track, 1 inch, some were from 15 track (one track in the studio didn't work) and some from 24 track. It took me 8 years to get the job done. The studio masters were severely damaged and some of the original tracks were destroyed (especially drums). Our recording sessions were a little different. I always recorded every song on my Tascam 8 track and the band would then learn the song. Some of the songs are just me playing and others are me and Bo Wagner. My original 8 track masters were identical to the finished masters but with a little less quality. With the new technology available today, I was able to work mostly with my original 8 tracks and bring them up to modern standards. To answer your question succinctly, my CD comes from new mixes of the original multi-track masters. Bruce Blackman |
Posted By: MPH711
Date Posted: 30 March 2009 at 7:59am
| To Bruce: I wish you could have put the opening drum notes on to "I Got To Know"...I just hate the way it sounds with you leaving these opening drums off! |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 17 August 2019 at 6:59pm
|
Any recommendations for the best sounding CD releases for "Everybody Be Dancin'" and "Making Our Dreams Come True." Both songs are discussed in this thread and I realize they may all be sourced by vinyl. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 17 August 2019 at 8:25pm
|
For those two tracks, I still go back to the Have A Nice Day discs. I haven't run across anything that sounds better. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 27 April 2021 at 4:04pm
|
Did Bruce re-remix the tracks on his www.moonlightfeelsright.com web site since they were first discussed here in 2009? "Moonlight Feels Right" is now listed as the correct length and sounds like the original mix, including the drum fill before the vocals that was reported as missing earlier in this thread.
In fact, I hear a little bit of graininess in the sound, but I don't know whether it's just from the MP3 encoding of the web site, or if he possibly used a very clean needledrop of vinyl as the new source. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 15 May 2021 at 2:02pm
| Have the original mixes (from tape) ever come out for "Everybody Be Dancin'" and "I Got to Know"? Bruce Blackman retrieved the master tapes from the studio in Atlanta and was going to release proper CDs, but as far as I know, he never did. Does anyone know for sure? |