Teena Marie - Lovergirl
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=283
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Topic: Teena Marie - Lovergirl
Posted By: aaronk
Subject: Teena Marie - Lovergirl
Date Posted: 07 June 2005 at 1:57am
| I just dubbed a copy of Teena Marie's "Lovergirl" from the 45, because mine is in storage, and it sounds like a completely different mix. The drum track on this 45 is different--especially the snare hit. On every CD that has this song, the drums are all the same--the way I remember it. Does anyone else have a 45 with a drum track different from what's available on CD? (By the way, this is a very obvious difference that you won't have to search to find.) |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 04 November 2005 at 12:53am
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I forgot to post my findings on this awhile back, but it turns out there is more than one pressing of the 45 on this song. I pulled out MY copy of the 45, and it is the same mix that I'm used to hearing & the one that has shown up on every CD out there. My 45 is an edit of the mix that's commonly found on CD (the LP version).
My friend's 45 is a mix that I had never heard before (details in the post above). So, I'm curious to know what versions are on the Sony Music 100 Years and R&B: From Doo-Wop To Hip-Hop CDs. The run times of (4:18) match MY 45; however, Pat notes that these CDs contain "neither the 45 or LP version." Anyone have any info? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 04 November 2005 at 5:38pm
|
If it helps, here's some info on my copy of "Lovergirl":
- Catalog number is 34-04619 on the blue Epic label - Label states a run time of (3:59) but it actually runs (4:20) I don't have the catalog number of my friend's 45, but I can ask him to jot it down for me. His copy runs (4:23), but the label may state something else. |
Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 07 November 2005 at 7:33am
|
Aaron,
Just compared my dj 45 to the version found on "R&B: From Doo-Wop To Hip-Hop" and yes the reason I entered the comment of neither the 45 nor LP version was due to the different drum track. Are you sure that your friend's 45 is a US issue 45? As we know there are numerous 45's that have been released in two distinct versions so it is entirely possible that there are two domestic versions of "Lovergirl". My matrix number in the dead wax is 169787-2E. ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:01am
|
Pat,
Yes, I'm quite sure his 45 is a US pressing. It's on the blue Epic label, and there's no mention of "demonstration-not for sale" anywhere on the label. Now, I just listened to an online sample of "Lovergirl" on the R&B: From Doo-Wop To Hip-Hop cd, and the drum track on this recording matches the 45 that I have. Apparently, your DJ 45 has the same mix as my friend's 45. I e-mailed a dub of this "alternate mix" to Todd, and he had never heard this mix before either. Again, my 45 sounds like it's an edit of the LP mix. Therefore, the only possible conclusion is that there is more than one pressing of this 45, each with a different mix. The one that I remember hearing on top 40 radio is the mix that is on my 45---the LP edit. |
Posted By: Paul Esch
Date Posted: 07 November 2005 at 2:28pm
|
I also have the US 45, and it matches the mix on the R&B: From
Doo-Wop To Hip-Hop CD. The matrix number on my 45 is 169787 - 3B. This version also times out to about 4:20. Now, is there a difference in speed? |
Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 07 November 2005 at 3:46pm
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I guess there are 2 different pressing of this 45 then! I just ordered a copy from Ebay that has the matrix number 169787-1A so maybe that will fix me up with both versions. ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 08 November 2005 at 1:07am
| Paul, to answer your question, no there is no difference in speed between the two versions; however, the mix that Pat & my friend have on 45 has a slightly longer fade out, and there's a couple different edits, which may account for the time difference. Thanks for backing me up, by the way. It looks like we have the same 45, as mine has the same matrix number as yours. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 1:51pm
| Bringing this to the top of the board, as there was a question about it. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 3:26pm
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i have the correct 45 version on cdr... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 3:43pm
| The question Torcan asked in another thread is do both copies of the 45 state a run time of (3:59)? We know for sure that they both actually run between (4:20) and (4:23). The 45 with the edited LP mix states (3:59). What about the other one? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 4:16pm
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my 45 states a run time of 3:59 but runs 4:19....do you need any info from the 45??? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 5:52pm
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my deadwax says "zss 169787-3d"....further over it says "g1"....hope this helps.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 9:31pm
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I'm late to the thread. I have not read the posts yet, so I will give what I know.
One of the US Epic 45 indeed is a different mix. It is drier (no reverb added), and the drums are much louder. It is also edited. The drum track is not different, just punched up much louder. I bought the 45 before the LP was released and before the song became a pop hit. I did a nice needle drop of it to CD-R some years ago. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 July 2006 at 10:31pm
| I disagree, Grant. There is certainly a different drum track. The sequence of each drum track is the same, but the drum on the 2 & 4 count has a totally different sound to it. I just listened to it, and there certainly is reverb on both mixes, but you're correct in that the drums are much louder. |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 6:35am
| Thanks for brining it to the top - useful information. Now I've got to be on the lookout for the other 45! |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 4:14pm
But, that's the beauty of remixing. You can do so much to a sound. You are probably just used to hearing compression on the drums, and the mix overall. I'll bet if you e-mailed Teena herself she'd tell you she used the same drum track for both mixes. |
aaronk wrote:Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 4:34pm
| I'll have to look up her e-mail address. :) |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 6:59pm
| Her website is a good place to start... |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 August 2006 at 11:07pm
|
Unfortunately, her site does not have a way to send e-mail or contact Teena (or anyone else for that matter). But I was ready to send the message!
I'm still convinced that it's more than just compression and mixing. It's not live drums, so they could have easily just re-programmed the sound of the drums using the same sequence. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 02 August 2006 at 10:19am
| OK, your post made me dig out the liner notes, because the drums sound very real. It's hard to tell exactly who played on this song because the album has several drummers on it. My guess? John Robinson. Teena also plays drums on a few tracks. There is drum programming on the album, but it is limited to bit pieces of bongo drums played with sticks during the verses. I'm a drummer, and I can tell! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 August 2006 at 12:56pm
| Not that all this info is relevant, but I will agree that the drums on the LP mix sound live. The drums on the alternate mix sound electronic. Even on the LP mix, the beat keeps perfect timing. I overlapped the first half of the song with the second half, and the beat never goes out of sync. Either they're using a drum machine or the drummer has a beatkeeper and is very accurate. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 02 August 2006 at 2:35pm
Not to me! They are just very dry, with no reverb added.
John Robinson is known for having a perfect sense of timing. Let's not forget that the tape machine(s) used for creating the single mix may have not been 100% stable. It happens. Don't forget the that single mix is heavily edited. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 10:00pm
|
This thread's been dormant awhile, but I just did some work on "Lovergirl" and thought I'd share.
First, the drums are played by a live drummer and recorded with a click track, which was not unheard of in in 1984. (It was a bit more common in the late '70s/early '80s before drum machines took over dance music. Check out the Duran Duran records, the mid '80s Genesis records, "Every Breath You Take", and the last Go-Go's album. Plenty of live drummer/click tracks to go around.) Teena Marie's first record with a drum machine was "Work It", the follow-up to "Ooh La La La" in 1988, according to the liner notes of Hip-O's Ultimate Collection. Second, the 45 can be recreated from Club Epic (1990), which is not a remix as listed in the 1955-1996 version of Pat's book. (Not sure if that's covered elsewhere in the forum or in the database.) The edit points in the 45 fall at 0:18, 3:26 and 3:29. The mastering on Club Epic is superior to Ultimate Collection (to my ears anyway) and is not squashed/compressed/maximized as found on later releases. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 11:22pm
|
Thanks for adding the info about the drum track. That's interesting information. I was aware that some drummers used click tracks, which would explain why this song never misses a beat. The drumming is dead on from start to finish. I still think they sound like a drum kit (electronic).
You are correct that the 45 can be re-created from making an edit of the version found on Club Epic, because that is the source I used to make mine. At some point, it appears that Pat has amended the database to read 12" single version, which is more accurate than the previous remix comment. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 04 February 2007 at 7:56pm
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Earlier in this thread, I believe, it was noted that there were two versions of this 45 released. One was indeed mixed differently, with the drums up loud and the whole track dry, without reverb. ------------- |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 23 September 2010 at 1:20am
| I was just going over the music video this week, and the first 15 seconds of the audio from the video sounds like an intro from the other versions of the song were trimmed off, compared to the video version. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 September 2010 at 7:25am
| Yeah, you're right! There is a unique intro that sounds like it was tacked onto the beginning of the LP version. |
Posted By: mainrhythm
Date Posted: 23 September 2010 at 12:26pm
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Don't know if it'll help, but my (styrene) 45 says:
P G ZSS169787-3C |
Posted By: Bellenger1981
Date Posted: 19 March 2021 at 3:16pm
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I just came across this alternate 45 mix version on the
"Stranger Things 3" soundtrack from 2019! ------------- Jason Bellenger Byron Center, Michigan, USA |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:20pm
|
Great! The "dry" (original) 45 mix is also available as a bonus track on
the remastered version of the parent album Starchild. I think it may be out of print by now, but the digital version is available from the digital retailers in the US. I have been meaning to buy the remasters of her Epic catalog for a while. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 18 April 2021 at 3:58pm
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Well, to my surprise, after receiving the Stranger Things 3 soundtrack, I've discovered that this mix is neither. It's close to the original single mix, but it's not identical. The digital version of "Starchild" (Expanded) has this same "neither" version that appears on the soundtrack. Close, but not quite. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 17 October 2021 at 5:33am
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A couple of additional points about this one... To prevent utter confusion, let's refer to the three obviously different single-length mixes as (A) common hit version with a more "live" sounding drum track, (B) the
less common but original 45 with the dryer mix, and (C) the odd "Single Version" that has popped up in recent years that is sort of similar to mix (B) but has some obvious differences. • The outlier "third mix" (C), which has popped up as the "Single Version" in recent years (on both the Starchild expanded edition and the Stranger Things 3 soundtrack), seems to be an edit of the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fyWgjhe_Zg - Video Mix . Note that there is a version called https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH8L3z_M3do - '12" Instrumental' on the Starchild expanded edition that is clearly a part of these same mix sessions. The intro from the "Instrumental" could almost be tacked onto the non-"Single Version" (C) to re-create the full Video mix if not for Teena's spoken word over the intro of "Instrumental" ("I see you brought your helicopter to pick me up...") Still, this lends credence to the idea that the odd mix (though possibly not the edit) existed in 1984 and would have sounded familiar to the MTV crowd, although it is sadly not the true 45 mix. (My theory is that there is an unreleased vocal 12" mix from these sessions that was shelved in favor of the "hit" 12" mix, and that is likely where the Video Mix and non-hit "Single Version" (C) are derived from.) • Additionally, a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG-C9DVyXnk - new extended version created by John Morales (of '80s-era remixers M+M) has been released in recent years that seems to be built around the original non-hit 45 mix (mix B). So, the tapes maybe/hopefully still exist somewhere. It drives me a bit mad when I go back to researching this one every once in a while, LOL. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 17 October 2021 at 8:20am
|
I disagree on the comparison between the "neither" version and the music video. If you listen to the snare hits, the "neither" version and the less common 45 version have electronic handclaps on top of the snare. The video and LP version do not. At first, I thought the video was a unique mix from start to finish, but upon listening closer, the video (Vevo / YouTube) is simply the right channel of the LP version and is in mono. The intro, however, is unique to the video. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 17 October 2021 at 8:56am
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A summary of the various mixes:
- 12" single version (5:46); same mix as LP version but longer - LP version (4:49); 12" version can be edited down to create LP version - 45 version of 12" mix (4:20); same mix as 12" and LP but edited further - 45 version / alternate mix (4:24) - "neither" version (4:20) labeled as "Single Version" on Starchild reissue and Stranger Things 3; similar drum track to the alternate mix 45 version but instrumentation is at different levels throughout; before the fadeout, the rhythm guitar notes that follow the line "for my love will make you high" are missing on this version - video mix (on Vevo video from YouTube); mono; intro similar to 12" instrumental; remainder of this version is the right channel only of the LP mix ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 17 October 2021 at 11:52am
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Thanks for this summation, Aaron ..... I hear the handclaps now. When I first listened, I thought the collapsed sound of the video was just down to being very different mastering/wonky sourcing.
Any way you slice it, sorting out the various versions out there is a mess. |