John Fred "Judy In Disguise"
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2737
Printed Date: 14 June 2025 at 7:14am
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Topic: John Fred "Judy In Disguise"
Posted By: Oddbjorn
Subject: John Fred "Judy In Disguise"
Date Posted: 15 November 2007 at 2:31pm
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My 45 of John Fred & His Playboy Band - "Judy In Disguise (With Glasses)", Paula 282, states a run time of 2:47 but actually runs 2:52 and matches most of the run times listed in the db ------------- OddNor |
Replies:
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 20 March 2022 at 11:32am
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Anyone ever hear a fantastic sounding stereo version with great separation for this song? I know I haven't. Maybe on an import somewhere? ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 20 March 2022 at 5:55pm
A wider, better sounding mix does exist, but I can't remember what CD (import?) I got it from. I'll let you listen to my mp3 of it. Andy |
PopArchivist wrote:Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 21 March 2022 at 1:04am
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I used to have an mp3 that was supposedly at
least partially an alternate take and was wide stereo, but I lost it several computer crashes ago and never found it again since. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 21 March 2022 at 1:49pm
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It sounds pretty good to me on ACE's "Chartbusters USA Vol.
2". ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 22 March 2022 at 5:19am
Somewhere I once read an analysis of the stereo on this song, and it stated that the hit version doesn't exist completely in stereo. The hit version was supposedly pieced together from several takes, some of which only existed in mono. |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 27 March 2022 at 10:08am
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I don't think the "very poor stereo separation" description in the database is warranted. While the main part of the song is indeed what sounds like mono with some stereo reverb added, the instrumental break, most of the background vocals, and sitar ending are in full stereo with good separation.
But it definitely sounds like it was pieced together from multiple recordings, especially at 2:10 when the background vocals abruptly switch from stereo to mono. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 27 March 2022 at 7:42pm
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Just FYI - I checked this some years ago, the mono 45
matches exactly a fold-down of the original (more common) stereo mix. Everything matches exactly, including the reverb. I just re-checked to confirm it. So fold down that mix and you have the mono 45 mix. The alternate mix does not match the 45 but is an interesting alternate way to hear the multi-tracks. MM |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 28 March 2022 at 6:25pm
I disagree. During the 60's much better separation exists in general and this song should be targeted by Eric Records it would be nice to have a stereo mix rather than a mono-poor stereo hyrbid of a mix. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 28 March 2022 at 9:54pm
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I know I'm not the one calling the shots, but IMO, notations like "very poor stereo separation" should describe faults with the source tape used or mastering of the CD, not a subjective judgement of the way the original recording was mixed. Especially not when about half the song actually is in full stereo, just like King Harvest's "Dancing in the Moonlight" which switches back and forth between narrow and full stereo.
And as noted above, a truly full stereo version of "Judy in Disguise" would be impossible to create without going back to the original session recordings and completely re-editing and remixing it from the several different takes that were pieced together to form the hit version of the song -- if those recordings still exist in usable condition somewhere. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 31 March 2022 at 3:53am
I find it odd how some releases have the second set of "come with me tonight" vocals in mono and others have it in stereo, while other releases still, have the ending in mono while others are in stereo. I think it was Mark who had put together a "full" stereo version once. It sounded fine to me and I'd love to see that one get released. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 31 March 2022 at 12:22pm
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This is interesting.
I found two different permutations of stereo/mono on CD, and I think that they may correspond to the 45 (being a fold-down of one permutation) and LP (being the other permutation). Here's a YouTube dub of the 45 (it's in mono) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuEO1dt_FAI The mastering that corresponds to the 45 (the only difference is that it's not entirely in mono) appeared first on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 19 1968 Shakin' All Over (1989). The first "come to me tonight" vocals (1:07-1:17) are in wide stereo, with the high-pitched vocal being only in the left channel and the low-pitched vocal only in the right. There's a "yeah yeah" in the right channel at 1:18. The string portion (1:48-2:06) is in very nice stereo. The second "come to/with me tonight" vocals (2:07-2:17) are in wide stereo throughout. The ending (2:46 onward) is in mono. The same analog transfer is used on:
The mastering on Good Music's 2-CD Rare Gold (1990) sorta matches the Time-Life disc, but sounds like it uses a higher-generation source tape. Sounds pretty cruddy here; avoid. Here's a YouTube dub what I believe to be the LP (you don't see the record on the turntable, but it's clearly from a record) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up7dcAilcvY This version appears on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1968 (1988 with a digitally identical clone on a RE-1 reissue from 1993). Part of the opening drumbeat is cut off in the right channel, for both the vinyl and CD versions. On the CD, there's a little static in the left channel from 0:04 to 0:06; there's no way to tell if that's on the record. The first "come to me tonight" vocals (1:07-1:17) are in wide stereo, with the low-pitched vocal being only in the left channel and the high-pitched vocal only in the right (left/right channels swapped from Classic Rock). The string portion (1:49-2:06) is in very nice stereo. The second "come to/with me tonight" vocals (2:08-2:18) have their first line in wide stereo and are mono thereafter. The ending (2:48 onward) is in stereo. There's a small amount of tape drag on the Rhino disc, but pitching it up by 2.5% will get you close to the YouTube clip. It doesn't stay in synch with the 45 YouTube clip, which makes me think it was edited from different source material pieces. The first appearance of the (probable) LP version on CD was on Warner Special Products' 2-CD Fun Rock (1986). Here, it sounds spectacularly awful, using a lifeless-sounding source tape, and running significantly faster than the Rhino disc. Plus, it's in narrowed stereo, so that the low/high pitched "come to me tonight" vocals are mixed closer to the center. This CD is one of the first Warner Special Products compilations, well before they started using decent-sounding copies of the source material from the individual labels. Avoid. The mastering on Rhino's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 1 (1997) uses a different analog transfer than the Billboard disc, but is pretty close sonically. The left/right channels are swapped (so that it now matches Classic Rock), there's no static from 0:04 to 0:06, and the volume is louder so there's a small amount of clipping on some of the loud portions. Summing up: (1) There seem to be only two permutations of mono/stereo/etc on CD. (2) One permutation (which is likely a stereo version of the 45) is on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 19 1968 Shakin' All Over (1989). There's a "yeah yeah" in the right channel at 1:18. This version stays in synch with the 45, with just one speed correction that affects the whole track. (3) The other permutation (which matches a YouTube clip that is likely from the vinyl LP) is on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1968 (both 1988 and 1993 versions). There's no "yeah yeah" at 1:18. Other opinions are welcome! ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 31 March 2022 at 1:05pm
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I would mention that the source on the Dick Bartley On The
Radio disc seems to have been mastered with some type of de-noising. Not exactly the same as noise reduction, but you can kind of hear it pumping in and out on the off-beat. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 15 April 2022 at 9:30am
Actually I do hear a faint "yeah" at (1:18) on the Billboard and Bartley discs. Is this enough to warrant a 45/LP designation in the database? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 12 June 2025 at 8:28pm
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Thanks to Dave H, I got to hear the lone CD with the mono version, Audiofidelity's Super Oldies Of The 60's Volume 7 (1984). It's quite obviously from vinyl. It's mono, but the left and right channels are out of synch by about 2 samples. Sonically, it's a mess, but it seems to correspond to what I heard on the YouTube dub from three years ago. If you speed up the Audiofidelity version by 0.54%, you can get it to synch exactly with the version on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 19 1968 Shakin' All Over (1989). If you slow down the Audiofidelity version by 0.58%, you can get the beginning and end of the song to synch up with the version on Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1968 (both 1988 and 1993 releases). If you do that, then about halfway through the song, the Rhino is ahead of the Audiofidelity by about half a beat due to tape drag somewhere. I'm going to spend a little time poking around the ending of the song (second "come to/with me tonight" vocals (2:08-2:18) onward) to see if the Time-Life and Rhino versions use the same edit pieces. I post this now, because I assume that I'll eventually give up without discovering anything new. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 12 June 2025 at 8:57pm
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Following up: If you speed up the Rhino version by 1.0%, it stays in synch with the Time-Life version until about 2:07-ish. After that, you'll need to speed the Rhino up by about 1.4% or 1.5%, but there's still a little tape drag on the Rhino. Either tape drag, or it's pieced together from different pieces than the Time-Life. I spent hours on this three years ago and gave up. As for real differences between the Rhino and Time-Life, the Time-Life has vocals much farther in front, but I can't tell if it's intentionally mixed that way or if it's just a pretty radical EQ difference. I now agree that the "yeah yeah" at 1:18 is there on both. So... all I've found is that: (1) The Rhino and Time-Life have stereo/mono differences after about 2:07, (2) The Time-Life stays in synch perfectly with the 45 throughout, and (3) The Rhino slows down abruptly by about 0.4% starting around 2:07 compared to the 45. And now I give up again. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |