CDs with songs mastered from vinyl
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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Topic: CDs with songs mastered from vinyl
Posted By: aaronk
Subject: CDs with songs mastered from vinyl
Date Posted: 25 September 2007 at 11:44pm
|
I'll start off the thread...
On Tommy Boy's Hip Hop Essentials Vol. 1, the song "Supersonic" by JJ Fad is taken from a very poor vinyl source. (Pure laziness on the part of the producer, since this track has appeared on numerous discs from tape source.) |
Replies:
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 12:47am
| All CDs with the song "Rocky" by Austin Roberts are mastered from vinyl, as the Private Stock master tape (like many from that label) was lost/destroyed. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 4:36am
| "Uh! Oh! (Part 2)" by The Nutty Squirrels on SMSP's "Fun Rock" is definitely from vinyl... you can plainly hear the crackles through headphones. |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 8:25am
| There has been a recent thread on the Steve Hoffman forum where he indicates that "Surfin' Bird" on the DCC Beach Classics CD was mastered from a 45 (using Wesson Oil, no less), and that no master exists. This implies that all CD appearances of this song were mastered from vinyl. |
Posted By: eric_a
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 8:43am
| On the Casablanca Record Box Set, the 12" version of "Flashdance...What A Feeling" by Irene Cara sounds crackly in quiet sections. I suspect this means vinyl noise, unless my CD is in poor condition. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 1:37pm
|
I posted this one a long time ago on another thread... Vanity Fare's "Early in the Morning" appears to have been mastered from vinyl on the various artist CDs: Super Hits of the 70's Volume 1 (Rhino 70921) and History of Rock Volume 6 (Collectables 5066). I detect groove distortion at times on higher frequencies such as "s" sounds and crackling is evident during the fadeout.
If I had to guess, all CD appearances to date are probably mastered from vinyl. If that's indeed the case, does anyone know if master tapes still exist for "Early in the Morning"? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 3:00pm
| Earlier this year, there was a discussion on the Both Sides Now message board (www.bsnpubs.com) claiming that most, if not all, CD appearances of Gallery's three Top 40 singles are mastered from vinyl. In fact, it was our own EdisonLite who initiated the discussion and wondered why all three Gallery songs appearing on the Rhino Super Hits of the 70's CD series came from vinyl sources. I haven't had a chance to re-listen to those CDs yet, but I will when I get a chance. |
Posted By: eric_a
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 3:29pm
What does Wesson Oil do? Is this a mastering trick, or am I missing a joke? |
Roscoe wrote:Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 3:46pm
| Guess I'll take my vinyl 45's medium well! ;) |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 4:02pm
| Ever since it's been available on CD, sounds like "Skyhigh" from Jigsaw is mastered from vinyl. Especially in the opening 3 seconds or so. |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 4:05pm
It's actually not a joke! Apparently, this is a mastering trick of Hoffman's to reduce surface noise when doing a vinyl transfer. I guess you wouldn't plan on re-using that record again after the transfer! |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 4:55pm
|
Vanity Fare's "Early in the Morning" is on a Repertoire import "The Sun The Wind and Other Things" from 1991 I believe from a tape. I know it was issued on Collectables, but don't know if same source was used.
Jigsaw "Skyhigh" is indeed mastered from vinyl on many VA comps (I have only 3 total), however I believe it's from tape on Targon's Very Best Of (or cleaned up very well!). ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 5:13pm
|
I believe the 45 version of "Creeque Alley" by the Mamas & Papas on the Dick Bartley On The Radio CD is a vinyl transfer (no tapes survive for that one).
Also, I remember hearing that the 45 version of Amii Stewart's "Knock On Wood" on the Varese CDs "Then 1 Totally Oldies" and "Disco Classics" is a vinyl transfer; no one has been able to find the master tape of the 45 version with its unique intro. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 6:45pm
| Yes, all 3 Gallery top 40 hits are mastered from vinyl, as apparently the Sussex master tapes for Gallery have not been found. "Nice to Be With You" is cleaned up better than the other two, but all 3 are definitely mastered from vinyl! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 26 September 2007 at 6:47pm
|
<Jigsaw "Skyhigh" is indeed mastered from vinyl on many VA comps (I have only 3 total), however I believe it's from tape on Targon's Very Best Of (or cleaned up very well!).>
Being that I was the co-producer of Taragon's "Very Best of Jigsaw" I can confirm that the master tape was used. All Jigsaw import CDs that contain "Sky High" are from master tape, too. I don't have all the U.S. various artist comps, and I can't quite recall about the Rhino "Super Hits", other than I remember the intro was faded in instead of starting at the proper volume, and that does make me suspicious as to whether they used vinyl and needed to cover it up in the quiet spot. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 27 September 2007 at 8:43am
|
Stonebolt's "I Will Still Love You", which appears on one CD only, Varese Sarabande's "Lost 45s of the '70s and '80s Vol. 2", is mastered from vinyl.
Also, in case anyone is interested, I was told by someone who works at Varese Sarabande that "Just So Lonely" by Get Wet (a #39 Billboard hit) was mastered from vinyl (and it's quite evident just from listening.) This person told me that no one could locate the single or album tapes. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 27 September 2007 at 8:45am
| "Almost Summer" by Celebration, which appears on one CD only, "Guilty Pleasures", is mastered from vinyl. If you listen on headphones especially, you can hear the record crackling. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 October 2007 at 10:23pm
You're definitely correct about that. I had a chance to listen to the Bartley CD tonight, and not only is it a vinyl source, but they used excessive noise reduction on it. Some of the fidelity of the original song has been lost from overuse of the noise removal tool. |
Posted By: BradOlson
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 6:20pm
| The French versions of "Ringo" and "Sand" on the Bear Family boxed set of the Bonanza cast albums are clearly needle drops with the surface noise intact. The Canadian CD of the Irish Rovers' Greatest Hits 2 LP set is clearly a needle drop to the point that one can clearly hear a click and pop on "Goodnight Irene," but this does have the best remastering of "The Unicorn" I have ever heard. I have heard Bear Family's remastering of Gordon Lightfoot's cover of "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues" as it appears on "Sunday Concert...Plus" and that is a noisy needle drop as well. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 7:32pm
|
the entire "Best of Johnny Thunder" cd on Collectables is a vinyl dub, with the original Loop De Loop album in stereo and two bonus tracks off mono 45's. Record noise and noise reduction can be heard through headphones. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 November 2007 at 1:28am
| Well, I'll be damned! The deluxe edition of Marvin Gaye's I Want You on CD dubs the promo 45 version of the title track directly from vinyl! I hadn't noticed this until listening to it more carefully. It's easy to tell by looking at the wave file zoomed in on the screen. Furthermore, you can clearly hear the crackle on the fade out if you turn up the volume. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 23 November 2007 at 3:56am
|
entire albums:
Carole Bayer Sager - Sometimes Late At Night the USA cd. not the Japanese one. Minnie Riperton - Come To My Garden all different issues UK, USA, Australia, Japan |
Posted By: jcr102
Date Posted: 24 November 2007 at 4:03am
| In the early 90's, when the Guess Who's albums were just starting to appear on CD, I bought So Long Bannatyne on RCA. Turns out the entire CD was mastered from an LP. In fact, when I compared it with my original LP, it was almost identical in sound in terms of record wear. I've always wondered why they did this.... |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 24 November 2007 at 11:14am
|
Waldo:
Do you have the Japanese pressing of Carole Sager Bayer's Sometimes Late at Night CD and, if so, do all the tracks segue together like on the U.S. pressing? |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 27 November 2007 at 7:47am
yes i have it. i believe some of them do. Wasn't it like that on the original vinyl? the Japanese issue is wonderful. you can hear awful pops and clicks on the cheapo USA CD. |
Posted By: Tim Lyman
Date Posted: 06 December 2007 at 5:08pm
|
The 45 version of Dickie Goodman's "Mr. Jaws" is mastered from noisy vinyl on all three of its U.S. CD appearances.
Not only did they chop off the opening note, but it sounds like the record or stylus (or both) was in dire need of cleaning. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:06am
| Shannon's "Let The Music Play" on Pure 80s Dance is mastered from vinyl. I suspect there are several others that also use vinyl sources. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 December 2007 at 2:22am
| Nu Shooz "I Can't Wait" is a vinyl dub on both CDs I have it on: Billboard Hot R&B Hits 1986 and Only Dance 1985-1989. Does anyone know if a tape source exists for the 45 version? Are the LP & 12" versions on CD from tape sources, and if so, can they both be edited to match the 45? |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:59pm
| I always thought that "I Can't Wait" on the Only Dance 85-89 CD sounded like it was a vinyl dub--glad to know I wasn't imagining things! |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 11 December 2007 at 9:22pm
|
Keep in mind, the original Atlantic single sounded a little like it was taken from vinyl.
Even the original regional label it was on sounded a little like it was taken from vinyl... It was a home recording turned into a smash; I bet even the absolute first-generation mix has artifacts. Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 December 2007 at 12:06am
| Andy, that's good information to know. Does the LP version sound this way, too? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 12 December 2007 at 12:20am
| Aaron, I do own two, mint Atlantic promo 12" singles for "I Can't Wait", and I also own a never-been-played 45 on its original, small-label issue (Poolside 1001). Maybe better sound can be found here somewhere, although Andy's "Oregon home recording turned smash" comment is 100% correct, and those nasty "artifacts" could really and truly be found everywhere for this one - we'll see. |
Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 13 December 2007 at 1:08pm
|
A number of tracks on Rhino's Have a Nice Day series are from vinyl, including Ronnie McDowell's "The King is Gone," Starland Vocal Band's "Afternoon Delight," and all three of Gallery's hits ("So Nice to Be With You," "I Believe in Music," "Big City Miss Ruth Ann").
|
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 13 December 2007 at 1:32pm
| Speaking of the Have A Nice Day series, if I'm not mistaken, Cyndi Greco's "Making Our Dreams Come True" is mastered from vinyl. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 13 December 2007 at 9:19pm
| So is Austin Roberts' "Rocky". |
Posted By: Tim Lyman
Date Posted: 02 January 2008 at 6:32pm
I have to wonder if the master tapes for Gallery's "Sussex" label-mates, Wadsworth Mansion, are also missing. I have the faded and cold-ending versions of the 45 version of "Sweet Mary" on Rhino's "Super Hits of the '70s Volume 4" and Varese Sarabande's "Dick Bartley Presents Collector's Essentials: On the Radio Volume 4", respectively, and both master this song from vinyl. Does anyone know of a CD that masters this song from a tape source? |
Posted By: vanmeter
Date Posted: 02 January 2008 at 6:46pm
Wow, and I always thought my 45 was just a lousy pressing since I know exactly what you're saying about it. Glad to hear somebody say this. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 03 January 2008 at 10:37pm
| I recently purchased the various artist CD Smooth Grooves: Cruisin' Classics (Rhino 78263) in hopes that the complete "hit" 45/LP length of Tierra's "Together" was mastered from a tape source. Much to my disappointment, the song was dubbed from noisy vinyl. Has anyone been able to acquire the stereo 4:24 length on CD that isn't mastered from a record? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 January 2008 at 10:17pm
I have a copy of the Rhino 70s Pop Culture box set, and this CD also has "Making Our Dreams Come True" mastered from vinyl. Jim recently sent me a dub from Time Life's Sounds Of The Seventies: The Late 70's, and this one is mastered from vinyl, too. Has anyone come across this one from tape source? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 January 2008 at 11:18pm
|
Aaron:
I have "Making Our Dreams Come True" on the Tube Tunes Volume One - The '70s CD (Rhino 71910) and it sounds like Rhino was able to secure a tape source for the mastering on this CD. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 January 2008 at 11:20pm
| Great news, Todd! Thanks for checking it out. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 07 January 2008 at 2:44am
|
<I have "Making Our Dreams Come True" on the Tube Tunes Volume One - The '70s CD (Rhino 71910) and it sounds like Rhino was able to secure a tape source for the mastering on this CD.
> No, Todd, Rhino just used vinyl cleaning software on "Tube Tunes", so much so that they removed any hints of vinyl, but also lost all the high end of the record - whereas they didn't do any vinyl cleaning on "Super Hits of the '70s". No CD has ever used master tape for this because it's a Private Stock master that was thrown out when they stopped paying their storage facility bill. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 07 January 2008 at 2:45am
| I noticed that "All Strung Out on You" by John Travolta was mastered from vinyl on Varese Sarabande's "John Travolta Sings" CD. There's a lot of import CDs of Travolta, though. Does anyone know if any CD uses a master tape for this song? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 January 2008 at 10:06pm
When listening to the Tube Tunes disc for the first time after purchasing it in 1995, I notice "Making Our Dreams Come True" didn't have the incessant noise and crackle that plagues the track on the Super Hits of the 70's, Volume 18 CD. Meanwhile, the paper insert tray in back of the Tube Tunes disc states: "We have taken every effort to obtain the highest quality audio source for each song represented. However, in some cases the best possible sources were television production masters which do not always produce the same fidelity as traditional record masters." I took this to mean that Rhino must have finally secured a master tape for "Making Our Dreams Come True". I should've given the CD a closer listen before posting my previous message because Gordon is indeed correct... The track suffers from heavy-handed noise reduction and therefore the higher frequencies do sound quite muffled. Sorry for the false lead, Aaron. And, man, do I miss how Rhino used to put out such fun CD compilations like Super Hits of the 70's and Tube Tunes! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 March 2008 at 9:01pm
|
More Rhino vinyl transfers to add to this thread. Shame on them for using vinyl on songs that are readily available on CD!
On Millennium Hip Hop Party the following songs are from vinyl: "The Humpty Dance" by Digital Underground - While many hip hop songs have "crackles" in the actual recording, this is not one of them. On the Millenium CD you can hear record clicks throughout the song. There's even a couple big pops on the fadeout at around 4:33-4:34. "Parents Just Don't Understand" by Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince. Again, you can several record crackles throughout and some distorted "s" sounds in places. For example, at 0:30 there some definite crackles in a place that should be silent. By contrast, these crackles are not present on the original CD version of the album. "Jump Around" by House Of Pain. I'm amazed at how many vinyl sources they used for this disc. You can plainly hear the turntable rumble and vinyl crackle right after the first note. On other CD copies, there is not any crackle or noise. There's even a couple of pops in the right channel on the very tail end of the fade out. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 7:28am
|
Do we have people on the panel that have definitive answers on what happened to some of these masters? There are so many stories. 1)Tapes were lost stolen or destroyed, 2)People who don't really own the rights start licensing the material anyway, 3)CDs that are probably boots 4)Lazy labels.
On licensing material that you don't own, that's allegedly what happened when K-Tel licensed a Chad and Jeremy CD from World Artists. That CD of course came from vinyl. (At least according to an article I read, World Artist lost all rights in the sixties) There are several labels from the 70's and 80's where the songs always seem to come from vinyl, does anybody know the story behind what happened to these masters? Sussex (which sort of became Tabu) Chelsea Private Stock (looks like EdisonLite answered that abvoe) Boardwalk Ariola For some of these, the major artist on the label were bought out by a bigger label or owned the masters themselves. That saved their masters from destruction. The Bill Withers tapes went to Columbia. Frankie Valli owned his own material as did Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. So they kept their own tapes. So do we have any stories on these or other labels? |
Posted By: MCT1
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 11:29am
I think that's correct. IINM, Capitol/EMI somehow ended up with the rights to the material that had originally been on World Artists, and it was reissued in the U.S. on Capitol as far back as 1966 or 1967. I'm not sure if they still own it today.
What's the history behind this? Not being quite old enough to actually remember it, Sussex has always been kind of a mysterious label to me.
I thought that Ariola was owned by BMG? This was before they really got into the U.S. market in a big way. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 12:24pm
|
My understanding about Sussex is that no one has been able to find master tapes. With Private Stock, as I previously reported, master tapes were thrown out when the owner decided not to pay storage bills anymore.
But Bill, what Chelsea or Ariola hits seem to always come from vinyl? With Chelsea, I know that Jigsaw and Austin Roberts came from tape. (At least I think Austin Roberts' "Something's Wrong With Me" came from tape.) The Jigsaw stuff was all preserved on tape because Chelsea only licensed their material from their UK owner, Chas Peate. As for Ariola, I believe Billy Ocean and Mary Macgregor's hits came from tape. As did Marmalade's #48 hit "Falling Apart At the Seams", so again, I'm curious to know all the top 40 hits that have always come from vinyl only. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 1:56pm
| Wasn't Bill Withers originally on Sussex? |
Posted By: BillCahill
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 2:22pm
|
On Ariola, maybe it's just the Amii Stewart single that's from vinyl. On Chelsea I thought there was more than Jigsaw from vinyl but I may have mixed up Something's Wrong with Me with Rocky by Austin Roberts.
But from the other labels on Sussex we know that Gallery and The Presidents come from vinyl. Hits by Dennis Coffey and Wadsworth Mansion sound like tape sources. Columbia got the Sussex Bill Withers tapes at auction. On Private Stock there's Austin Roberts and Cindi Grecco from vinyl. But Walter Murphy appears to be from tape. So who knows. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 2:58pm
Ember Records in the UK licensed the Chad & Jeremy material to World Artists for US release. The duo was signed outright by Columbia in early 1965. When World Artists folded late that year, Ember then licensed their Chad & Jeremy catalog to Capitol. My copy of "Yesterday's Gone" / "If I Loved You" (on the green-swirl Capitol Starline 6088) states "originally released: March 1966," which refers to the date the Starline reissue 45 first appeared. "An Ember Records Production" appears on the label, as it also does on both the jacket and label of the Capitol Starline LP 2470 The Best Of Chad & Jeremy. The LP also adds "produced for the U.S.A. by Bill Miller." A relative of Manny Kellum, perhaps? :) Capitol didn't retain US rights for long. I found a copy of the LP in the cutouts by 1971. Rhino licensed the Chad & Jeremy tracks from Celebrity Licensing for their The British Invasion / History Of British Rock CDs. Capitol also licensed the 1967 Twiggy material from Ember UK. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 4:54pm
What's the deal with the audio on that song? I have an 80s reissue Capitol GH album, and the Starline 45 you mentioned. That song sounds awful on both...muddy and what sounds like phase cancellation. A shame since it's my favorite song of theirs. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 7:51pm
|
Hykker, I hadn't listened to either of my Capitol "Yesterday's Gone" sources in decades, so I gave 'em a spin, along with the original World Artists 45.
The 1969 pressing of the Best Of LP at least had the cut (M) rather than (E) and it sounded okay. The Star Line 45 was much worse, just as you described it. It was as if "Produced for the U.S.A. by Bill Miller" simply meant that Bill dusted off a US vinyl source for the reissue. Then came the World Artists 45. Wow! It completely blew the Capitol reissues off the map; nice and clear, crisp and clean. It made the Star Line single sound as if that 45 had been mastered using a Victrola. Agreed that it's a great song. The Overlanders' #75 cover on Hickory was the hit here, going top ten on both KDWB and WDGY. That version is in my personal all-time top ten. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 08 March 2008 at 9:03pm
| Jim has been without his internet access for a while, but hopefully he can add details to what he told me about Sussex. The short story is that the Detroit warehouse, which housed all the master tapes, "mysteriously" caught fire. It is also my understanding that about this time, they were in some financial trouble. Again, hopefully someone who knows more, or perhaps our good friend Jim, can add to this. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 1:46am
|
Actually, Jim shared this story with me via e-mail a while back and I still have it saved in my Inbox. I hope Jim won't mind me re-printing his short e-mail here:
Paul: I think it happened back in the late 70s/early 80s. The label/building's owner was WAY behind on payments, so, what a surprise, a fire breaks out! Couldn't they at least saved the tapes? (might have made it look like less of an "accident" if they did, I guess!) This may have been why the Right Stuff label comp for Dennis Coffey was scrubbed - they likely assumed the master tapes still existed. I believe Sussex was out of Detroit, and Canadian copies of the masters were found for their few REALLY big label hits, like "Scorpio" and "Nice To Be With You" by Gallery. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 2:12am
What's especially baffling about this situation, Aaron, is that each of the songs you site are from the late '80s and '90s! So what on earth is Rhino doing mastering these hits from vinyl, given they were produced during the digital era and are all readily available on numerous CDs from tape sources??? It should be noted that the Millennium Hip Hop CD came out in 1999, shortly after Rhino had been bought out by Time-Warner. It was right around that time when Rhino seemed to begin it's present-day decline from the days when it was once widely regarded as one of the finest independent record labels in the industry. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 9:13pm
|
Think I have a few more. On Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies: AM Pop Classics, not sure if the whole LP is, but the following sound mastered from vinyl:
Jimmy Castor Bunch - Troglodyte Michael Nesmith - Joanne |
Posted By: satchdr
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 8:03am
To come back to this thread, I just purchased the BMG Canada twofer with the Guess Who's "So Long, Bannatyne" and "#10." The packaging is nice with the booklet containing copies of the original album art but, even more importantly, it did not appear to me that "So Long, Bannatyne" was mastered from vinyl. Although, I must admit my testing was not scientific, when listening to the quieter passages with earphones, I did not hear anything that indicated that vinyl was the source. Could it be that these twofers were mastered from the original tapes? "So Long, Bannatyne" is an excellent album. My original LP that I bought in 1971 is in excellent condition and it wears very well hearing it on CD (gulp!) 38 years later. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 10:09am
|
I found that the early 1979 hit "Shake It" by Ian Matthews was taken from vinyl for Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 25.
I found the LP length from a tape source on Time-Life's Singers And Songwriters - 1975-1979. It runs about 15 seconds longer than the 45. And a world of difference, in terms of sound quality. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 11:28am
| Thanks for the tip, Ron! The Time-Life Singers and Songwriters 1975-1979 CD is out-of-print, but it's not hard to find a copy online right now for a reasonable price. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 01 March 2009 at 11:14pm
| And the album length version of "Shake It" (from master tape!) is also available on a Varese Sarabande CD - I believe one of the Dick Bartley CDs. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 8:22pm
For anyone who has the various artist CD Gone But Not Forgotten (Risky Business 66394), does Ronnie McDowell's "The King Is Gone" sound like it was mastered from vinyl or from a tape source? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 30 May 2009 at 4:43pm
| I've come up with an answer to my previous question... I recently purchased the Gone But Not Forgotten CD (which is now out-of-print, but copies can still readily be found online) and I'm happy to report that "The King Is Gone" sounds like it came from a tape source! (When listening at higher volumes though, there is some noticeable sibilance on the "s" sounds that make them come through a bit harsh in spots.) |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 30 May 2009 at 10:34pm
|
On the various artist CD Best of Ace Records, Volume 1 (Rock N' Roll/Scotti Brothers 75266), the following Top 40 tracks by Jimmy Clanton are taken from very poor sounding vinyl dubs:
Venus in Blue Jeans Just a Dream My Own True Love Incredibly, the CD's liner notes claim the following: Each of the tracks in this compilation has been mastered from the best available original source. By going to each original master recording and by utilizing the best available modern technology, we have attempted to preserve the essence, quality and integrity of each of these historic recordings. What a crock! Overall, this CD is a sonic disaster and is not to be confused with the high quality work of the Ace Records UK label. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 9:07am
|
RE: Best of Ace Records:
Comments are true, but it's always been my policy to not talk negatively about the Scotti Brothers. : ) |
Posted By: smvceo
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 11:56am
This is one of those hip-hop recording that has surface noise from vinyl dubbed into the original digital recording. It was that way on the original House of Pain CD. "Lose Yourself" by Eminem from the 8 Mile soundtrack is another. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 12:18pm
Yes, I realize that the original recording contains vinyl surface noise, as the sample was probably lifted from a scratchy record. What I'm referring to is additional surface noise and clicks/pops that are not in the original recording. If you listen carefully on good speakers or headphones, comparing the Rhino dub with another CD source, you will hear what I'm referring to. |
Posted By: Citizen
Date Posted: 16 June 2009 at 8:38am
Also the Hudson Brothers' "Rendezvous." |
Posted By: anthology123
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 3:58pm
Don't believe I have ever heard a comp that had a good sounding version of Venus in Blue Jeans. On another note, isn't the 45 mono version of Magic Carpet Ride by Steppenwolf on Dick Bartley's comp also a vinyl sourced track? |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 5:10pm
Yes, because the 45 master tape is long gone. Also, "I Saw Her Again" by the Mamas & Papas on that same CD (On The Radio Vol. 1) would be a vinyl transfer as well, since there are no known surviving mono tapes for M&P. On another front, there was a thread, I believe on the Hoffman board, where someone asserted that the mono CD appearances of Lovin' Spoonful songs were needledrops. These would be: "Summer In The City": Varese Sarabande 302066148 25 All-Time Greatest Summer Songs "Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind": Varese Sarabande 5803 Sunshine Days - Pop Classics Of The '60s Volume 3 "Summer In The City" sounds like a tape source on the Varese CD, but I haven't listened to it critically. It has been a long time since I have listened to the Sunshine Days CD so I can't remember if the other song sounded like a vinyl transfer or not. Anyone else have any insight on these two CDs? |
Posted By: BillCahill
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 5:22pm
| Cary Mansfield might know the answer to all of these questions since he created these releases. My recollection of "I Saw Her Again" was that a tape was found, from another country off a compilation album master, so it wasn't close to a first generation tape, but at least it was tape. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 17 June 2009 at 5:40pm
(Quoting Bill from the 2008 "Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride" thread: )
I remember reading in ICE magazine back when the On The Radio CD was released that a tape source had surprisingly turned up for the mono "I Saw Her Again" 45. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 8:05am
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I'm not 100% sure, but it sounds like two versions of Shaun Cassidy's "Hey Deanie" may be from vinyl: Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies - AM Nuggets and Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 24.
If you listen to the trail-off on the last note, you'll hear what I think may be turntable rumble. If they are transfers from vinyl, they did a nice job with them. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 9:07am
| I believe the only "Hey Deanie" from vinyl was when Varese Sarabande used the single edit on one of their CDs (maybe a "Then" CD, if I recall.) But as far as I know all the album versions are from CD. Certainly the one on Curb's "Shaun Cassidy's Greatest Hits" is from tape, and I believe the one on Rhino's "Have a Nice Day vol. 24" is as well. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 9:19am
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My copy of Rhino's Just Can't Get Enough: New Wave Hits... has the intro of "One Night In Bangkok" from vinyl. I don't remember where it switches over. Are all CD copies of the "45 version" the same way---with the intro taken from vinyl?
As a side note, there is a great 2-CD import called 80s 12 Inch Special, made in Japan. It's the only CD I know of that has the 12" mix of "Bangkok," but unfortunately, they took it from vinyl. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 9:25am
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The 80s 12 Inch Special CD set that I just referenced has the extended version of "Everybody Wants To Rule The World," but it sounds to me like it has been cleaned up from vinyl. The drum hits aren's as "crisp," like the de-clicking software "corrected" them.
Does the Rhino Top Dance Hits CD have a tape source for the extended mix? I'm skeptical, because other tracks on that series were cleaned up from vinyl, leaving the drums sounding a little "dull." My 2-CD set might have even used the Rhino disc as the source. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 11:12am
Wow! How did you ever notice this?? I listened very carefully to Just Can't Get Enough Vol. 14 and there are two tiny telltale signs that the intro is taken from vinyl: (1) the intro is just a teensy bit more hissy than the rest of the song, and (2) the intro is just a teensy bit slower than the rest of the song. I've had the CD for 15 years and I never noticed it. The transition point is at 0:54, in the word "oriental". At that point, the slight hiss drops away, and the tempo speeds up from 108.4 BPM to 108.7 BPM. It's the same on Time-Life's Modern Rock - 1984-1985, which is a different-EQ'd digital clone of the Rhino CD, and on Retro Lunchbox - Squeeze The Cheeze, which is digitally exactly 1.56 dB quieter than the Rhino CD. I didn't notice any transition on The A-List, where it remains at 108.5 BPM throughout. I think the track may be taken entirely from vinyl on The A-List, and I'd guess that it's the same way on the early-'90s TM Century library discs. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 3:19pm
I pride myself on having a very keen ear for these things. Actually, I never noticed the speed difference, but I will check it out when I get home. I've known about this issue for years--since I bought the CD in the late '90s. I haven't listened to it in a while, but as I recall, I detected some turntable rumble and some very faint crackle during the quieter passages between drum beats. I'm pretty sure that The A List CDs borrowed heavily from TM Century's GoldDiscs. At least, the noise reduction and songs that sound like vinyl are the same in many cases. Check out Dead Or Alive's "You Spin Me Round," as it sounds pretty bad on both TM's disc and, if my memory is correct, also The A List disc. In fact, I can send you a few to digitally compare. TM dubbed "Bangkok" straight from vinyl in its entirety. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 5:14pm
Aaron - This is what I've long suspected, but I don't have nearly enough TM Century discs to properly compare. In my experience with the A-List tracks, it seems that there aren't any digital clones anywhere in the entire 50-CD set, but virtually all the tracks are analog dubs of existing CD sources, whether it's available from a record company or from TM Century. They usually tidy up the EQ and the levels, much like TM Century, except they do it in the analog world. I really like the set, and since they only made one batch of them in 1994 (no later updates or anything like that), they're pretty hard to come by nowadays. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 2:20pm
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All the early TM Century GoldDiscs are vinyl transfers. Many of them not so good sounding at that. "The King Is Gone" does sound like a vinyl transfer and a poor one. My 45 Promo single sounds much better and is less sibilant. "Hey Deanie" is also from a 45 source. Well done at that. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 29 March 2011 at 9:21pm
| I just wanted to point out that, for some strange reason, Gene Chandler's "Duke of Earl" is mastered from vinyl on his Greatest Hits CD on Collectables 5518. |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 10 December 2013 at 1:52am
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Not exactly "top of the charts" material, but for those who might be looking for the 1987 "classic" by Ron & The D.C. Crew called "Ronnie's Rap," the version on CD / mp3 on Amazon is from a vinyl source.
...Having said that, it's reasonable fidelity for a parody record, and where else are you going to find a copy of this song, digital or otherwise? :-) If you're looking for the link, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0023H8CF8/ - here it is . ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: Ringmaster_D
Date Posted: 10 December 2013 at 4:11am
| Just catching up now (4 years late) on the news that the beginning of "One Night In Bangkok" was sourced from vinyl on Just Can't Get Enough 14. You know, I always thought I heard a slight tempo change at the edit point. Has there been a consensus on the best-sounding non-vinyl-sourced version? Calling Ron... |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 10 December 2013 at 6:33am
As far as I know, all the CD versions of the 45 are digital clones of the Rhino disc. It's a little dull-sounding, but it's as good as you'll find. In my own library, I used a cleaned-up needledrop of the 45 from Aaron. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 11 December 2013 at 9:06am
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Many of the Ronnie Dove Diamond era tracks are sourced from Needledrop
sources. Re: Gene Chandler/Duke Of Earl. The Collectables is from vinyl due to their using the Stereo version (who's masters are missing). The mono is out there on CD from tape sources. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 16 December 2013 at 2:52am
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I have spent a lot of time combing two boxes of reel to reel tapes given to me by Ronnie Dove, and have thus far found only one tape that contains Diamond era recordings, but it's a 7.5 ips mono tape and at least one of the songs has different vocals than the released version. As soon as the DAT player I bought on ebay arrives I will dig into the DAT's I got from Ronnie, which supposedly contain dubs from the master tapes he once had, but which Collectables destroyed in the dubbing process (at least I will be able to tell from there if all Ronnie had was reel tapes of disc dubs...) ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 09 November 2014 at 8:23am
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if the version of ronnie mcdowell's song 'the king is gone'
on the super hits of the 70's vol 24 cd IS from vinyl it must be a perfect copy, as i don't hear any vinyl evidence during the ending which is nearly silent....i will say that during the piano intro, i do here some anomalies which could be from the mike he's using right before he sings......this one is NOT as clear cut as all may think....i'm not convinced it's a vinyl dub.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 09 November 2014 at 7:20pm
don't know the story on that, but perhaps a tape with the 45 intro doesn't exist, and that's why the 45 was used. ------------- |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 13 February 2018 at 1:22am
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Is the Michael Zager Band, "Let's All Chant", sourced from
vinyl? Sure sounds like it, especially on the intro. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 13 February 2018 at 5:00am
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As many on the board know, anything that was on Private Stock records needs an "extra listen" to determine the source. Frankie Valli of
course owns his own masters. Others apparently were lost. I read somewhere that Jai Uttal might have the rights to some of the catalog (that weren't leases) but he doesn't have any tapes. Maybe someone else knows for sure. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 13 February 2018 at 7:12pm
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In the early 80s, Larry Uttal's son stopped paying storage facility fees for the warehouse where all the Private Stock master tapes were stored, so the facility trashed the masters. His son (I guess from your post, his name must be Jai?) couldn't see, in the early '80s, there'd ever be a need or want for any of those tapes. Had he waited a couple more years and seen that the CD format came along, he probably would have realized their value. So only people who owned their master tapes and licensed them to Private Stock (or bought them back) have master tapes. Besides Valli, I believe Barry Gibb owns the tapes for Samantha Sang's "Emotion" album. David Soul was licensed from UK.
It appears Starbuck's "Moonlight Feels Right" was gotten off some tape for Rhino's "Have a Nice Day" series by Bill Inglot (the theory is he found some K-Tel album type tape source and used it. If someone knows Bill, it would be interesting to see what he remembers of that.) And according to Mark Mathews, it's indeed a tape source (yet every CD with "Everybody Be Dancin'" and "I Got To Know" a clean disc dubs.) Since Austin Roberts' "Rocky" got to #22 in the UK, I'm hoping someone there unearths a tape copy and puts that on a compilation. That was a big enough hit there. And I presume a tape was sent over to the UK for the release. If so, it's doubtful that both the UK storage facility and the US storage facility suffered the same fate. But you never know. (It came out on Private Stock UK). |
Posted By: Tom Daly
Date Posted: 06 March 2018 at 12:45pm
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The following original labels have no source tapes available for reissue, either due to legal issues, bankruptcies, or the death of the principal who owned them. Windsong, John Denver's label for which Starland Vocal Band recorded, while owned by Denver's estate, is tied up in litigation over which of his heirs have control over Windsong's properties. Sussex, Chelsea and Private Stock still own the rights to their recordings but lost the source tapes in bankruptcies. Those in possession of the source tapes are unwilling to allow their use to generate profit for the rights owners, and who they actually are remains a mystery. Many of Private Stock's hits were licensed from foreign sources. Samantha Sang, Michael Zager Band, Frankie Valli, and a few other Private Stock artists' recordings were licensed from outside sources, so original non-Private Stock source tapes exist for those recordings. Wes Farrell licensed "Sky High" by Jigsaw from the UK label named Splash that owned it.
Blame Lou Adler for The Mamas & the Papas missing tapes. Adler mixed the singles FIRST. Albums were mixed to stereo, then folded to mono for mono pressings. The exception was with FAREWELL TO THE FIRST GOLDEN ERA, a hits compilation. Stereo pressings contained the stereo album mixes, however mono pressings contained the single mixes of three songs, as the single masters were spliced into the mono album reels so that the single versions would appear on the mono album. Those three songs are "I Saw Her Again," "Words of Love," and "Creeque Alley," all of which contain instrumentation not heard on the parent stereo or mono albums on which the songs appeared. When ABC obtained the Dot Records catalog, something had to go to make way for Dot, so ABC junked its multitrack session tapes and mono album masters, figuring they'd never need them again, and with the purge went the single mixes of those three Mamas & Papas tracks. Lou Adler did a similar thing with Scott McKenzie's "San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair)." Some Ode 45s have an echoed and compressed tympani pounding during the bridge, which the "hit" version does not have, nor does the stereo album mix. |
Posted By: Tom Daly
Date Posted: 06 March 2018 at 12:49pm
The 2-track master for "Duke of Earl" disappeared almost as soon as the stereo LP was pressed. Subsequent pressings claim to be stereo on the covers, but the records play in mono. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 March 2018 at 7:45pm
Actually, the long standing rumor is that the head of ABC, Jay Lasker, junked ALL the mono tapes for Dunhill and ABC. Also, that's not true about the Mamas & Papas mono LPs being fold-downs of the stereo mixes. Just about all of those M&P mono mixes are dedicated (to the one I love) mixes. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |