"Goodbye to Love" - Carpenters
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Topic: "Goodbye to Love" - Carpenters
Posted By: EdisonLite
Subject: "Goodbye to Love" - Carpenters
Date Posted: 14 September 2007 at 6:35pm
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Pat, in your database you indicate 2 different versions of "The Singles 1969-1973". I believe there are 3.
The first one you list as A&M 3601. The 2nd one, a "remastered" version, you list as A&M 828393601. I believe there are 2 different pressings of the 1st one (3601). My 2nd pressing of 3601 does not have an "82839" anywhere in the number system on the spine, booklet or CD itself, which makes me believe it is different from what you call the "remastered version" and therefore, there are 3 versions of this CD floating around. The best way to decipher between these two "3601" versions that I have is on the song "Goodbye To Love" and where the start ID begins for the song. On my first version, it has a longer (11 second) intro and the start ID begins on the word "down" (as in "rainy days & mondays always get me DOWN"). On the CD itself, under the "A&M +" sign, it says "Made in Japan". Under that, it says "CD-3601". [This is probably the 1st pressing.] On my second version of this CD, there is a piano intro that is about half as long and clocks in just under 5 seconds. The start ID was re-configured to start with a smoother intro (and it starts on the second string line, not the first string line that has the word "down" overdubbed on top). The intro on this version has a smooth start, very natural, like a regular intro would, not the harsh beginning in version 1. On the CD itself, under the "A&M +" sign, it does not say "Made in Japan". Under that, it says 75021 3601 2, not "CD-3601". I don't believe this is your "remastered" 82839 version. [This is probably the 2st pressing of the non-remastered version.] So in terms of the original (non-remastered version), you might want to make a note that there are 2 pressings, one that has a harsh intro start (and longer string intro of 2 lines) and the other with a smooth intro start (and shorter intro of 1 line). Lastly, on the "Goodbye to Love" version on "Singles 1973 to 1981", which is one of the "piano re-recorded" versions, the speed is quite different than the versions with the original piano track. The whole song seems to be sped up on this version (and I assume on all "piano-rerecorded versions) so you might want to make an additional note on all those "piano re-recorded" versions that says "track sped up" -- assuming all are sped up like the "Singles 1973 to 1981" CD is. And it's quite a noticable difference in pitch so it should be fairly easy to determine if all those versions are sped up. |
Replies:
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 17 September 2007 at 7:09am
| Wow this is interersting news. The matrix number stamped into my cd is DIDX 000023 13 and mine states made in the USA. The full barcode number is 7502-13601-2. I will have to keep my eyes open for the Japanese pressing as I am sure if they remastered Goodbye To Love, they probably remastered other songs as well on the Japanese pressing. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 September 2007 at 8:27am
| Yes, at the time of my discovery, I was only interested in finding the best version of "Goodbye To Love" - so I went through all my CDs. There could be other differences in other songs, too (especially knowing Richard Carpenter's desire to constantly remix his old songs). For clarity, this CD wasn't a Japanese import. But it must have been an early US pressing, back when U.S. CDs were virtually always made in Japan. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 19 September 2007 at 1:17pm
| Pat, what are your thoughts about the two different pitches of this song? Which is the correct (original) pitch and do you think it's worth including in your details? |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 19 September 2007 at 4:32pm
| I feel if there is a significant pitch change then it should be mentioned in the database. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 4:33pm
| EdisonLite-- I finally scheduled some time today to look at your speed issue with the Carpenter's "Goodbye To Love". First thing I noticed is that I am not tracking a cd titled "The Singles 1973-1981" in the database. I guessed that you meant "The Singles 1969-1981" and when I pulled that cd and compared the Goodbye To Love with the original 45 rpm vinyl record I found exactly the opposite of what you report! The single is faster than the version found on "The Singles 1969-1981"! So at this point I need some clarification from you as to where you found a cd titled "The Singles 1973-1981" and are you sure your version of Goodbye To Love on this mystery cd is faster than the 45? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 7:30pm
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Yes, I meant "Singles 1969-1981".
In terms of the speed issues, I don't have the 45 -- I only noticed that my various CDs with this song seem to have its speed at two distinctly different speeds - one faster, one slower. I wasn't sure which speed is the actual 45 speed because I don't have the 45. However, since there are versions with re-recorded piano, I made the assumption that the speed on those was the "wrong" one and that the speed on the "original piano" recordings was the right speed, i.e. the 45 speed. But I could be wrong and have it backwards. In summary, I don't know what the 45 speed is; I just know that there are two distinct speeds for this song -- on CDs in the database, and I feel the one that is distinctly OFF from the 45 speed should be indicated (whether the indication be "faster than the 45" or "slower than the 45".) Since you have the 45, Pat, it should be pretty easy to figure out which CDs have the wrong speed. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 6:41am
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Is there a definitive collection of Carpenters songs that haven't been tinkered with? I heard there is a Japanese collection but it's very expensive.
I have the Singles 1969-1981 collection and was very disappointed after hearing the songs remixed. Luckily, I also have some dubs that are reported to be the single mixes. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 10:08am
| Here is the information on "Goodbye To Love" that I can report. Both the vinyl 45 and LP "A Song For You" state and run exactly (3:50). The cd version of "A Song For You" is slower than the vinyl counterpart and all cd's except for the original release of "The Singles 1969-1973" A&M 3601 run too slow. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 4:01pm
eriejwg: I have an import 3-CD Carpenters compilation called The Ultimate Collection (Universal International 984061). To my knowledge, this set contains all original LP mixes of the Carpenters' hits. No remixes. No tracks cross-faded into each other. And the sound quality is overall very good. |
eriejwg wrote:Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 8:11pm
| Thanks Todd for the tip. Guess there's no true 45 versions of their hits on CD. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 10:50pm
| Well, for many Carpenters songs the LP & 45 are the same, so if you have the non-remixed versions, essentially you have the correct 45 versions. There's only a handful of tracks that have specific 45 versions different from the LP. |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 09 November 2010 at 7:54pm
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Reviving this thread after peeking quickly at the database listings for Carpenters 45s in response to a recent thread.
I hadn't noticed before, but was surprised to see that NONE of the database listings for "Goodbye To Love" are the original LP version (which was the same as the 45). They all indicate a re-recorded piano track and variations of further remixing or speed differences. This is alarming because the Remastered Classics CDs from 1998 were supposed to contain all the original LP versions, with none of the later tinkering that Richard Carpenter did. But I assume this is the Remastered Classics listing of A Song For You in the database: A&M 828393511 A Song For You (remastered edition; piano track rerecorded; slower than the 45 or LP) This listing matches my CD, except mine has a "2" at the end of the listed matrix number. Unfortunately I don't have the 45. Can someone confirm that the Remastered Classics edition of "A Song For You" is NOT in fact the original LP/45 version of "Goodbye To Love"? If that is the case, this is yet another maddening item in the mess that is the Carpenters' CD catalog, with the original version of "Goodbye To Love" not available on CD at all. I also pulled my Japanese singles collection box set, which seemed to get most everything correct. But the version of "Goodbye To Love" on that set matches the Remastered Classics A Song For You. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 10 November 2010 at 10:52am
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To Roscoe:
If you get anymore information, please let me know! I have the Netherlands 'Ultimate Collection' and I'm pretty sure it's the original mix, based on it's not like my other remixes of "Goodbye To Love". Problem is, I don't have an original 45 or vinyl LP to really check; I'm going by memory (which is not always accurate...) Andy |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 10 November 2010 at 3:29pm
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Has it occurred to anyone that there might simply be an inadvertent error on in the database? According to this extensive Carpenters' discography, the remastered CD is the original US mix:
http://www.grantguerrero.com/carpenters/song.html - http://www.grantguerrero.com/carpenters/song.html |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 10 November 2010 at 6:41pm
I went back to that website as well (a great source for info on Carpenters releases). Hopefully the database has an error, but in an above post, Pat indicates that the original 45 and LP run 3:50 and I can definitely confirm that the Remastered Classics CD runs 3:55. I think I have A Song For You on vinyl somewhere so I'll try to dig that out and compare over the weekend, in case no one has provided a definitive verdict yet. |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 15 November 2010 at 9:44pm
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I finally got a chance to check into this some more. Unfortunately my A Song For You LP has gone MIA so I ordered an original A&M 45. Here's the comparison of the 45 with the CD Remastered Classics 828393511 A Song For You:
- The 45 runs 3:50 and the CD runs 3:55 as noted in the database. - The above running time difference is due to a speed difference, with the 45 running approximately 2.2% faster than the CD (just got a new turntable and haven't had a chance to do a detailed check on 45 speed accuracy). - I could not detect a re-recorded piano on the CD as indicated in the database listing. The piano sounded the same as did the entire mix. I lost my vinyl LP as noted, but going by an above post, the 45 and LP are identical. I suspect what may have happened is they decided to speed up this song when creating the LP cutting master, which must have also been used to create the 45. When they went back to the original master tape for the Remastered Classics reissue, they either didn't check that song against the original LP or decided to go with the original recorded speed. Bottom line: If you have the Remastered Classics CD, it contains the correct mix of "Goodbye To Love" but at the wrong speed. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 21 November 2010 at 8:02am
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With the Carpenters' here is how you get the definitive original versions (except for "Ticket To Ride" in it's original version on CD. 1: Get a Japanese pressed or early pre-IFPI code USA made "The Singles 1969-1973" and the UK, West German, or Canadian A&M "The Singles 1974-1978" which have original mixes we know and love save for the re-sung "Ticket To Ride" which I think is superior. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 25 January 2011 at 9:47am
| This song is available in its original 45/LP mix on Rhapsody, though it's slower. Pitch up the file 2% and it will run 3:50. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 7:19am
Interesting site. Not that it has anything to do with the Carpenters, per se but the page for their "Horizon" album mentions the Beatles having a #1 song in the U.S. with "Please Mr. Postman". On what chart did this take place? Certainly not Billboard. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 10:45am
| Did he mean that "Please Mr. Postman" was a cover of a Beatles song that was a #1 song in the US? Because that's true. That is to say, the CARPENTERS version hit #1 in the US, which it certainly did. But a statement like what I just wrote could also be misinterpreted as the Beatles having the #1 hit, which isn't so. So I'm guessing that's what happened. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 27 January 2011 at 1:18pm
The site claimed that PMP was #1 by 3 different artists: Marvelettes, Beatles & Carpenters. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 10 June 2013 at 7:58pm
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it should be added to the db that the vinyl 45's listed and
actual running time is 3:50... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 11 June 2013 at 5:44pm
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Well I've been putting this off for a while because these are only "subtle differences" but since the "Goodbye to Love" thread is active again here goes:
The mono side of the DJ 45 is NOT a fold down. The following difference may be enough to note this as a slightly different mix: My comparisons are between the DJ stereo and mono sides of the original radio 45. The DJ stereo side is the same as the stock. On the stereo mix at 1:44 the electric guitar fades down quickly to give Karen the stage on the line "What Lies in the future". The electric guitar basically gets buried under her. The mono mix does not fade out the guitar as quickly at 1:44 and the final note of the electric guitar can be heard clearly under Karen. This one difference may be enough to warrant that the mono DJ side is a slightly difference mix. At 2:12 starting with the "Bye" on "Goodbye to Love" the orchestra continues on the stereo version but is either gone or is lowered a lot more on the mono side, basically giving just the organ the stage. After the drum solo at 2:20 the tambourine is heard immediately on the stereo side but takes until about 2:24 until you can notice it clearly on the mono side. It may indeed be there at 2:20 but it is certainly not as noticeable, I think it was faded up on the mono version. The added compression on the mono side makes the reverb on the drum solo sound a lot louder at 2:17, it may indeed be louder but I'm guessing it only sounds louder due to the added compression. The mono side is the same length as the stereo side (3:50) but there is a little extra music heard at the end of the mono side as it is sped up more than the stereo side. Other ears may hear the above differently. Most of the Carpenters' earlier singles were prepped differently for mono so they would pop better on AM radio. |