"Industry Betting on ’Ringle’ Format"
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2456
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Topic: "Industry Betting on ’Ringle’ Format"
Posted By: Brian W.
Subject: "Industry Betting on ’Ringle’ Format"
Date Posted: 11 September 2007 at 2:53pm
So basically...
they admit they should never have killed the CD single... without really admitting it, and acting like it's some new concept. Doiii!!! |
By Ed Christman
Replies:
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 13 September 2007 at 7:35am
|
The idea is that if consumers in the digital age can download any tracks they want individually, why not let them buy singles in the store as well?
This is so funny on so many levels!
------------- |
Posted By: bdpop
Date Posted: 13 September 2007 at 12:23pm
| At the current price point, it too, will be a failed format. The prices need to be more along the lines of $1.99 - $2.99 in order to spark some interest in the format. Can you imagine trying to sell a 45 RPM single for $5.99 - $6.99? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 13 September 2007 at 3:34pm
Have you checked eBay, Musicstack and GEMM lately? 5.99 would be a bargain these days! LOL. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 September 2007 at 2:23am
Well, if you consider inflation, that's probably roughly what a 45 would go for. But too late -- people are used to paying 99 cents for a single, and there's no going back. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 15 September 2007 at 9:09pm
While that's true, it would be more accurate to say that people are used to paying 99 cents per download. Now, if the record companies could offer at least 4 to 6 songs on a single, then it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for $5.98. You also have the physical disc with artwork in addition to having the music. |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 20 September 2007 at 2:46pm
|
While I'm glad that they're trying this, I really wonder if the public has just gotten used to singles not being available.
Case in point: in Canada, the cassette-single never really caught on after 45s disappeared in the early '90s, and CD singles were sporadic and expensive for quite a while. Finally, around 1997 or so, the record companies started releasing a lot of CD singles again, many of them for around $2.99-3.99. Record stores even had charts on the wall again of the Top 30. They were around for quite a while, but about 3 years ago production was sharply curtailed in favor of the download. Now, I think people have gotten used singles generally not being available again. While I've always preferred having my own copy, I wonder if the geneeral public can be brought back into a physical singles-market again? |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 21 September 2007 at 9:24am
| The genie is already out of the bottle on 99 cent downloads. I highly doubt that physical singles will ever be successful again in any format. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 September 2007 at 6:14am
I guess it will depend on if downloads stay as affordable as they are. What if the record industry did away with single-track downloads? In other words, you could buy a single, but it would cost you $4.99 and you'd get 4 to 5 songs. Anything is possible, especially since the record companies seem to be hungry for more money. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 2:12pm
| For those who missed it in the Michael Jackson thread, it looks like the Ringles that were set to come out tomorrow (11/6) have been postponed yet again:( |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:23pm
| Well, Amazon told me mine already shipped, so hopefully I'm safe. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 05 November 2007 at 3:41pm
| I hope you get yours, Brian. I also hope this brings the physical single back to the stores...although I still think the price-point is too high. I'll believe in them when I actually have one in my hands! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 06 November 2007 at 2:30pm
|
Yahoo! I got it! Not from Amazon (yet), but a local store did have them in stock. They had not put them out yet, so they had to bring out a box from the back. I was a little worried, because I heard them talking low, then one said, "No, the memo said 11/6."
So I picked through it and ended up buying six ringles, I was so excited to see CD singles back in the stores! But Best Buy said they still had a date on them of 12/31/2020, and couldn't put them out, so I don't quite know what's going on with the ringles. But I got mine! I was surprised, though -- they're not in digipaks, as originally announced, but card sleeves. Some have two songs, some three. The tracklisting for "Thriller" online is wrong: the album version isn't on there at all. It's just the US single version and "Can't Get Outta the Rain," plus the ringtone. (It's also worth noting that this is the American CD debut of the 45 version of "Thriller.") And I bought "Sexual Healing," since it's got the instrumental B-side, also making its CD debut. I will say, they are playing up the "never on CD" aspect. Both of those have a sticker on the shrink wrap proclaiming "First time on CD!" for the bonus tracks. I also bought: -Survivor, "Eye of the Tiger" (with original cover and B-side) -Rick Springfield, "Jesse's Girl" (with original cover and B-side) -Boys Like Girls, "The Great Escape" (Album Version, Tom Lord-Alge Mix, Live Version) -Sean Kingston, "Me Love" (Me Love, Colors (2007), Your Sister) |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:48pm
I stopped by my local Best Buy earlier this evening as well, not so much to look for ringles, but rather new album-length CD releases. (Side note: Those considering Van Morrison's new "Still on Top - The Greatest Hits", for just a few bucks more, I recommend opting for the import 2-CD version w/ 37 tracks vs. the domestic single-disc, 21-track version!) I did spot one ringle mixed in w/ the album-length CDs, and strangely, it was that one by Sean Kingston that you bought (haven't heard the song). I took a quick glance around the rest of Best Buy's CD racks, and no other ringles jumped out at me, nor was there a separate display, like I'd seen at Borders - so it appeared the Sean Kingston was probably just one they forgot to pull a couple of weeks ago. I thought about asking one of the employees a bit more, but ultimately decided not to bother... I then went back to Borders, and still no display, so I inquired about the ringles again, since I'd been told last week that they'd be back today. Well, this time they said they'd actually SENT THEM BACK, and were told that the ringles wouldn't be coming back again until some time next year! (Kinda similar to the "unknown" release date of "12/31/2020" that you got from Best Buy.) Geez, do the folks responsible for the ringtone portion of the ringles really need that long to get their sh** together?!? I hope not! Glad to hear that you were able to find some, though, Brian - based on the full list you provided, I know there are a few that interest me as well (although none of them were among the batch that I saw a couple weeks ago)...
Well, I did mention in the discussion on your MJ thread that they were in cardsleeves. :-) Actually, the original "Billboard" article that you posted above states pretty close to that ("slip-sleeve covers"), so I was never looking for digipaks. Yeah, the "extras" on the ringles that I saw did vary from title to title. Nice to know that they're making an effort to throw in some songs/versions previously unavailable on CD for us collectors, though... |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 07 November 2007 at 12:50am
I'll second that! Although I didn't buy any singles during the vinyl era (only cassette & CD, starting in the late '80s), I've always STRONGLY believed in the importance of the physical single as a marketing tool, and still buy the rare domestic commercial CD single when one is made available for current songs that I like...
Best Buy's price on the Sean Kingston title that I saw earlier this evening was $4.99 - same as Borders - even though the original "Billboard" article that Brian W. posted above said that they'd likely retail for either $5.98 or $6.98. I agree that $5.98-$6.98 is too much, but feel that $3.99-$4.99 would be decent. (I assume Brian paid $4.99 ea. for his???) But for ringles to be a success, one other very important thing must happen as well: ALL FOUR of the big distributors must get in on it, and simultaneously - similar to the way they finally did in support of the cassette single back in late '86/early '87, after several false starts (and let's not forget that there were SIX distributors back then!). Remember, the universal "introduction" of the cassette single in early '87 was such a huge success in the U.S. that they passed vinyl 45s in sales THAT FIRST YEAR. Heck, they completely revived and revitalized the singles market in the late '80s - so much so, that by the Summer of '89, the majors developed that false "singles sales must be hurting album sales" paranoia, and thus started deleting the cassette singles while the songs were still high on the charts, and then not releasing hit songs as commercial cassette singles at all starting in early '91. And right now, the "Billboard" article states that only two - Sony/BMG and Universal - are on board w/ ringles; WEA and EMI/Capitol are apparently still sitting on the sidelines. So did they learn anything from 21 years ago??? (Was anyone currently at these companies even in the music biz 20 years ago?!?) And even if WEA and EMI/Capitol do jump in shortly, will it be only two short years (like from 1987-89) before the labels/distributors get cold feet and decide to stunt the commercial single's comeback yet again??? As much as I hate to say it, the music biz is so screwed up, that this is bound to fail, and the issues that have already developed over the ringtone portion of the ringles only adds support to my prediction... :-( |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 07 November 2007 at 2:52am
Oh, man, that will SUCK if that's true! The girl at Best Buy did tell me that a representative had come in and said not to sell them "until they told us to." Whew! Did I luck out. I still allegedly have a second copy of "Thriller" that's already shipped from Amazon, though. And, yes, mine were all $4.99. But here's more evidence that the ringle promotion has been pushed back once again: When you go to the Sony website to redeem the ringtone with the code they give you in the package (it's on a little slip of paper inside), it says, "The Ringle redemption site is in public beta testing now UNTIL RINGLES ARE OFFICIALLY AVAILABLE [emphasis mine]. This site is open for redemptions during testing." http://sonybmgringles.com/Default.aspx - SonyBMGRingles Also, Sony has removed all "connected singles" (what they called the ringles) from their SonyMusicStore website. Google the words Sony Connected Single, and several ringles pop up with links taking you to the sony website, but they're all dead links: "Requested merchandise unavailable." |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:51am
i'm puzzled why Amazon only ship to certain customers and not all. i have had no such email. Brain, did you purchase Billie Jean on the same order? how does 'Can't Get Outta The Rain' sound, does it clock in at the exact same time as the vinyl 45? Any chance you could buy up all the MJ ones from your local store and put 'em on eBay. or sell me one directly = i'll pay twice the price, via paypal. i got a horrible feeling it's all going to be cancelled. i gotta have that "Rain" flipside. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 07 November 2007 at 7:29am
| Went to several local chain stores yesterday and did not see even one Ringle...the guy at Best Buy said they got them but had to send them back per company-wide memo:( |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 07 November 2007 at 11:00am
Maybe they didn't get the message until after mine shipped... but I still haven't got it yet. I didn't purchase Billie Jean, no, and I don't plan to, since I've already got the B-side. But it is still slated for 11/20, so maybe you should try ordering that.
Seems to be same time: actual 4:04, with that rather abrupt fade that's on the 45. Sounds is... good, clear, but it's the usual loud, maximized sound you get on CDs these days.
I'll see what I can do. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 07 November 2007 at 8:11pm
|
A call to the Virgin Megastore on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood confirmed what 80sMusicFreak was told at Borders: the ringle promotion has been pushed to 2008, and stores ordered to ship all copies back.
I asked if Sony had given a release date, and the Virgin employee told me no, it was "just 2008." |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 08 November 2007 at 11:19am
Even more puzzling, if what we were told is true: Pause & Play and Amazon both still show three Christmas ringles slated for release on Nov. 27 by Jose Feliciano ("Feliz Navidad"), The Singing Dogs ("Jingle Bells"/"Oh! Susanna"), and Mariah Carey ("All I Want for Christmas is You"). Will people buy Christmas tunes in March/April (or whenever it is they've now been pushed back to next year), or will these all instead be thrown into a giant shredder??? |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 15 November 2007 at 9:31am
|
Paid another visit to my local Best Buy last night, and had a little more time to devote to looking for any more stray ringles that were possibly on the racks. It turned out the one by Sean Kingston that I saw last week was either pulled or sold, but I DID find yet another - this time it was "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor. Since that tune has always been one of my favorites, and coincidentally one of the ringles that I'd decided I wanted, I immediately grabbed it...
I then asked an employee - who appeared to be in his late teens/early 20s - what happened to the others. After disappearing into the back room for a few minutes, he came out and said he remembered seeing some others on the racks a couple weeks ago, but had "no idea what happened to them" - so he was clearly out of the loop! I then proceeded to the register, unsure whether any bells or whistles would go off when my Survivor ringle (which didn't even have a price sticker on it, BTW) was scanned. But luckily, nothing happened, and it cost me all of $4.99 (hey, no sales tax here in NH!). So I now officially own one ringle, lol... Hey Brian W., did that Amazon order of yours show up yet??? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 15 November 2007 at 10:44am
| Yeah, it did! And, you know, CD Universe is still showing the first batch of ringles (including Thriller) as "usually ships within 1-2 days." So you might try ordering from them. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 18 November 2007 at 11:07pm
Ugh. That's what I was afraid of... |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 19 November 2007 at 9:23am
|
i don't know about titles by other artists but CD Universe have and are indeed! shipping the Michael Jackson Thriller ringle :) .. and while Amazon have let go of some of their copies it seems that they are holding back now. they told me none have been mailed overseas. hence why i have heard nothing from them.
i'm not aware of any outlets stocking or shipping the Billie Jean one yet. |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 19 November 2007 at 6:54pm
|
The "ringle" concept reminds me of an offering fast food giant Jack In The Box had many years ago. "Frings" were boxed servings of half french fries and half onion rings.
Closer to on topic (not about ringles, but SINGLES): If a protected download costs 99 cents, and an unprotected, high-quality download costs $1.29, I believe a cd single (with NO B-side at all) should retail for $1.99, in a cardboard picture sleeve. "Ringles" (what a crappy term) approximate the maxi-single, but don't really meet the criteria for that more limited market, either. What is lost in profit margin is loss-leadered into turning THIS generation into record and/or CD collectors, such as the ones who frequent this site. You can't get hooked on singles, single versions, or full length albums and/or full length cds that might contain the single versions when the single itself has been eliminated. Bring it back! |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 24 November 2007 at 6:11pm
I got my copy of the Thriller Ringle in the mail yesterday from CD Universe. It is so nice to finally have the 45 version of Thriller on cd! |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 26 November 2007 at 5:56am
|
i agree, i prefer playing it instead of the Thriller dual disc that was released in England last year too.
|
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 9:22pm
| So what's the latest with the CD "ringles"? Did these things ever officially get launched, or has Sony and Universal already decided to scrap them? |
Posted By: Underground Dub
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 9:42pm
|
I tried to buy the "Thriller" ringle at a Wal-Mart a while back. Took it to the register, and when it was scanned a loud *SIREN* went off.
The cashier called the manager who said she couldn't sell it to me. She told the cashier to pull the others from the shelf. What. The. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 10:11pm
| Nine months on, it would appear it's been scrapped, but I don't know for sure. Sure am glad I bought the few ringles I did. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 10:46pm
| Yeah, I found mine on half.com at about the same time it was supposed to be released---only $2.98! Copies on eBay are fetching more than $60.00 today. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 5:55am
Funny you should bring this up now, Todd. For the last few weeks, I've been meaning to add an update to this thread, and hadn't yet gotten around to it. Last month I went on a major five-day music-buying trip to NJ & PA, and lo & behold, I stumbled into a mom-&-pop store in your home state of PA that actually had a full custom display of ringles on the front counter near the register! (Apparently they never got the memo last fall that they were supposed to be sent back.) Of course I sifted through them all (they had at least 50), and ended up buying three - all "oldies": "Surrender" by Cheap Trick, "Jessie's Girl" by Rick Springfield, and "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" by Cyndi Lauper. (The latter is admittedly not among my favorite '80s tunes, but knowing the rarity, I couldn't resist, lol.) They cost me $5.98 each. Also grabbed from the display several copies of the free 5" x 5" flier from Sony/BMG promoting the new format... So my collection has recently grown, but clearly the format is still dead in the water, as I've seen no new promotion of ringles since the fall. :-( But apparently there are still a few places left out there trying to unload them, although my gut is telling me we've seen the last of any new titles... |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 5:57am
Yikes! I admittedly haven't priced them on eBay in about 4-5 months. Should've bought that whole display, lol... |