Question on Seger’s Ramblin’ Gamblin Man
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Topic: Question on Seger’s Ramblin’ Gamblin Man
Posted By: BillCahill
Subject: Question on Seger’s Ramblin’ Gamblin Man
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 1:52pm
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I picked up what appears to be a Capitol promo 45 but I'm trying to determine it's actual origins.
It has the correct number and B side. Mono. It has the typical Capitol design of the period, yellow label with black print. But under the "NOT FOR SALE" print, it says, "Produced by" HIDEOUT RECORDS AND DISTRIBUTORS INC". Was that also on the stock copies? The reason I ask is that the artist for this promo is Bob Seger, not the "Bob Seger System". If it is a radio copy then maybe this 45 was originally released to radio as Bob Seger, and then changed later. Or, it's not a radio copy, but some promo made up for a state fair or something later when he dropped "The System". Or, it's a boot and I got tricked. It's mono. Trail says: 45-59078-F1 Is Hideout on the stock? Does anybody have a promo with System on it? Any clue as to whether or not this is an original or something else? Bill |
Replies:
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 2:02pm
| My dj copy is identical to the one you are describing Bill. The flip side of mine is "Tales Of Lucy Blue". Capitol 45's in those days had a serrated ridge surrounding the yellow label and mine has that serrated ridge. I doubt a boot would have the serrated ridge. |
Posted By: Gary Mack
Date Posted: 19 August 2007 at 2:50pm
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Bill,
You apparently have a real promo copy, likely the earliest one. My stock 45 has the "Hideout" credit line and Bob Seger System. The matrix number is different though; mine reads 45-59078-P1, the P suggesting a later pressing, which would make sense. And Pat's comment about the serrated edge around the label is real proof that yours is a Capitol pressing. GM |
Posted By: BillCahill
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 5:05am
| Yes it has the serrated edge. Thanks for the help guys, not a bad purchase for a buck! |
Posted By: PaulEschen
Date Posted: 20 August 2007 at 10:16am
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Just to divert the theme of this post a little bit, I've tried to fold down the
version of this song from the CD Ramblin' Gamblin' Man to see if I could get a mono version close to the original 45 version. The version on the CD (and the tan-colored re-issue 45 for that matter) is electronically rechanneled for stereo, but it sounds like they simply put the treble in one channel, and the bass in the other. When I did a simple fold-down on my computer, and added just a bit of high-end boost, I think it sounds pretty darn close. Has anyone else tried this? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 9:53pm
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Does anyone have any idea why a Billboard Top 20 smash like "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man", released by a major artist (Bob Seger) on a major label (Capitol) has been next to impossible to find on CD? I mean, for crying out loud, if you can even find a copy of the lone long out-of-print CD containing the song, you not only can expect to shell out over $100 for it, but you also settle for listening to the hit in awful electronically rechanneled stereo!
If "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" was owned by some other label, I could possibly understand how licensing issues could prevent the song from further CD reissue. But it was released on Capitol just like all of Seger's numerous other hits. So what gives with the song's conspicuous absence on CD, especially in genuine mono or stereo? I was fortunate to see Seger in concert last year here in Pittsburgh and it was a very delightful suprise when he performed "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" during the show! Evidently, he still thinks enough of the song to perform it in concert nearly 30 years after it's release. So why does it continue to be so elusive in digital? What's the story, Morning Glory? |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 11:35pm
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Bob Seger's long-time manager (and some-times record producer) Ed "Punch" Andrews controls (possibly owns) the Seger masters; Capitol can't release/repackage them without Punch's directives.
Andy |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 9:09pm
| Thanks for the clarification, Andrew. But this only begs the question... Why is "Punch" Andrews being so stingy about reissuing "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" on CD? |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 19 March 2008 at 8:10am
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Hi Todd,
I of course can't answer your question for "Punch", but I suspect the answer lies somewhere in this... It seems in the music business when one talented, busy, wealthy individual has control over licensing, it's just not a priority to him (e.g. Allen Klein, Phil Spector, Dave Clark, Bruce Springsteen). Who knows, now that "Punch" has retired from Kid Rock's managerial position to specifically concentrate on Seger's international touring, there may be some attention turned to Seger's releases. (I believe Seger is the only major artist that has never had a 'box-set' released.) Andy |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 19 March 2008 at 10:04am
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A couple other thoughts:
Could there be licensing/tape ownership issues here? I don't think Seger was continuously signed to Capitol. RGM was on Capitol, but I have a couple early 70s singles of his on small, obscure labels, then by mid-decade he was back with Capitol. Could it be that "Punch" doesn't own/control the tapes to this? Another (somewhat related) thought. The only copy I have of RGM is the Capitol reissue single in muddy-tinny fake stereo. It sounds awful. This would also point to maybe a missing early-generation tape or the multitracks (recorded in '68...there must have been multis at one time). |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 19 March 2008 at 4:03pm
That Star Line 45 reissue is indeed awful. The drum intro on "RGM" was (and still is) my favorite part of the record. It just leaps out on the original 45. I've never heard any subsequent release that has that same crackling energy that really drives the song.
|
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 19 March 2008 at 9:20pm
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Punch Andrews has in his posession, the original 8 track session tape for RGM, and i've been told this by a source within the music industry who knows Punch. He also has the multi's for all of the other early material that appeared on cameo/parkway and all those other various early labels, as well....however it may be that they dont control the copyrights on the recordings, but just retain posession of the session masters (the record companies wouldve only licensed/purchased mixdown masters, not the original session tapes, unless he was signed to the label exclusively before they were recorded). ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 11 June 2008 at 2:31pm
| My commercial 45, which is mono, confirmed as Capitol 2297, and looks exactly like Yah Shure's scan above, has a listed time of (2:20), but an actual time of (2:23). Addressing a couple of earlier-in-this-thread queries, "The Hideout" was a popular, 60's Detroit nighttime hangout & local band performance venue. They also operated the small "Hideout" independent, local record label, circa 1965-67, and issued some local singles by the club's most popular regular acts, most notably "The Underdogs". I believe that Andrews was a primary mover/shaker in all facets of the "Hideout Records & Distributors" operation, including the leasing some of this music to the major labels, when they were interested, as was the case with Seger, and is no doubt why the notation appears on the 45. As to why Seger's earlier Capitol music is so hard to find on CD, my information does not really put the blame on Punch Andrews' wishes; amazingly, he and Seger have almost always been on the "exact same page", for more than 40 years now. My understanding is that Seger himself does not look back at all fondly on almost all of his pre-1975 recorded output, which he has owned the rights to for some years now. So, with one or two exceptions, like "Beautiful Loser" and, more recently "Smokin' OP's", he prefers to keep these albums out of print, simply because he can. I think a good part of it has to do with those album's poor sound quality. I do own a hard-to-find, issued-back-in-the-80s, Capitol CD copy of "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man", and it sounds absolutely horrible. The made-earlier-in-the-thread point about the electronic-stereo nonsense is 100% true, and the sound quality of the "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" track falls way, way short on there, when compared to the 45. Whoever would've thought that a Punch Andrews-produced LP would lack punch? (sorry).... |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 06 April 2009 at 11:29pm
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Has anyone else figured out why the promo listed the artist as just Bob Seger? I too now have a nice clean promo copy (in better condition than my stock copy, even)...it definitely is original, cost me a bit more than i wanted though, but i am glad to have found it. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 4:54pm
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i just listened to my commercial 45 versus the cd version from
(E) (2:20) Capitol 96261 Ramblin' Gamblin' Man (LP version) there are 3 differences that i can discern.... first is the 45 is mono versus what i guess is a fold-down on the cd version...the difference is most noticible while listening with headphones... second the commercial 45 runs about 0:02 longer than the version from the cd third, the cd version is slightly FASTER than the vinyl 45 (45 runs 2:23 and the cd runs 2:20) other than these outlined, what would be the reasons for the "lp version" qualifier in the db.........if you can listen thru the distored fold down version, they are very much alike..... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 05 August 2011 at 6:19pm
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Ed,
i'm not totally sure, but i think the "version" qualifies because the LP version was electronically enhanced to the fake stereo with added reverb. And, yeah, as had been stated besides the electronic enhancement, they also EQ'd it so poorly that it sounds LIFELESS on the album. What an embarrassing shame that is. So, the mono 45 mix was never folded down from that LP mix, the LP "mix" was made later by adding something...hence "version". And, as had been described above, you CAN successfully repair the version on CD, with a complete re-master. It works best to use only one channel, the one with less added reverb. Then massively RE-EQ it with way more bass, a a lot more upper hi-end...then compress it until the beat slams so hard your foot can't help stomping. That should do it. -MM |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 20 October 2011 at 1:26pm
| This song will finally be issued in it's original MONO state on the new Bob Seger double CD Ultimate Hits. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 20 October 2011 at 8:20pm
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That's great news Bill. There are still a few more of Bob's hit 45 versions that have not been on CD yet. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: SoCalDrew
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 7:35am
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Tracklisting:
Disc 1: Old Time Rock and Roll, Hollywood Nights, Night Moves, Mainstreet, Roll Me Away, Turn the Page, Her Strut, Still the Same, You'll Accomp'ny Me, We've Got Tonight, Like a Rock, Fire Lake, Tryin' to Live My Life Without You Disc 2: Rock and Roll Never Forgets, Against the Wind, Ramblin' Gamblin' Man, The Fire Down Below, Travelin' Man (Live), Beautiful Loser (Live), Shakedown, Shame on the Moon, Katmandu, Little Drummer Boy, Wait For Me, Hey Hey Hey Hey (Going Back to Birmingham) (New in 2011), Downtown Train (New in 2011) |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 20 November 2011 at 8:39am
------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Bill Cahill wrote:Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 20 November 2011 at 7:28pm
| I look forward to picking up this 2-CD compilation and finally acquiring Seger's ridiculously elusive "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" after all these years. I know it's probably too much to ask nowadays from the major record labels, but I sure hope the track doesn't suffer from the typical modern-day "loudness wars" mastering with overly maximized audio levels and a squashed "brickwalled" dynamic range. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 21 November 2011 at 4:20pm
| Well, I picked up my copy of the new Bob Seger Ultimate Hits: Rock and Roll Never Forgets compilation (Capitol 46151) at a bargain price of $6.99 at Best Buy today (normal retail price is listed at $11.99). I was pleasantly surprised to see the CDs packaged in a standard plastic jewel box and not in some cheap flimsy cardboard digipak like so many modern day CD releases. Unfortunately, I was disappointed to discover that "Ramblin' Gamblin' Man" has indeed received the "loudness wars" treatment with the overly maximized levels and squashed dynamic range. It's better than not having the song on CD at all, I guess. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 21 November 2011 at 6:51pm
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It figures. Thanks Todd for confirming what you predicted would be the case. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |