Starship - It’s Not Over (’Til It’s Over)
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2206
Printed Date: 26 August 2025 at 3:04pm
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Topic: Starship - It’s Not Over (’Til It’s Over)
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Subject: Starship - It’s Not Over (’Til It’s Over)
Date Posted: 17 June 2007 at 8:55pm
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My older edition of Pat's book (1955-1996) lists three sources for this song, all with times between 4:13 and 4:16, all on RCA or Grunt/RCA discs. No indication that there would be any difference with the 45.
However, I know from an earlier post that a promo CD single went out with two versions of the song: Starship-"It's Not Over ('Til It's Over)" (6478-2-GDJ) 1-Rock Mix (4:32) 2-Tom Mix (4:16) My commercial 45, with "5227-7-G-A-1S" in the deadwax has a printed time of 4:32 and an actual running time of 4:32. My 45 version has a different mix than my Greatest Hits (Ten Years And Change) CD, and I would guess that the 45 is the "Rock Mix" from the CD single, and the common CD version is the "Tom Mix" from the CD single; I don't actually have the promo CD single. The version on my 45 is available on an extremely hard-to-find Canadian compilation called On Top (PolyTel 816 651-2, released in 1988). I got my copy in Toronto in 1988, and I can't say I've seen any others since. Should the 4:13-4:16 versions be labeled as "LP version"? |
Replies:
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 12:42pm
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You have a really old edition of my book and should really upgrade to the electronic version as the database currently shows LP version by every database entry.
Now, you mention a promo cd single of "It's Not Over" that includes a "rock mix" which runs (4:32). My vinyl dj 45 (Grunt 5225) includes a "rock mix" which runs (4:16) just as the label indicates, and a "Tom mix" which also runs (4:16) just as the label indicates. The commercial single is neither the "rock mix" or the "Tom mix" which I have on vinyl but could very well be the (4:32) version found on your dj cd single. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 6:05pm
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Pat - In addition to the track listings, I also seek out the best-mastered collections. In general, the best-sounding collections came out between 1992 and 1996 (plus or minus a few years). After 1996, most collections are mastered too loud, with excessive compression/limiting that crushes the dynamic range and sounds pretty miserable (some have referred to it as the "loudness war"). My old version of the book ensures that the collections were put together in the pre-loudness-war years.
But yeah, I should probably sign up for the electronic database. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:38am
| This one has plenty of versions to keep track of, including two different "Rock Mix" versions. Can anyone tell me if the shorter "Rock Mix" running (4:16) on the DJ vinyl is the same as the LP version? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 17 October 2008 at 1:03am
| When comparing the two "Rock Mix" versions, the promo 45 has the guitar solo cut in half. The edit is at (2:44). I haven't heard the "Tom Mix" on either the 45 or promo CD to say whether it matches the LP version or not. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 05 November 2017 at 6:07pm
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Did anyone come up with a determination whether the 4:32 Rock Mix is the same as the 45? Also whether the LP Version is the same as the Rock Mix that runs 4:16, or the Tom Mix that runs 4:16 or is it neither?
I have the CD single of this if anyone would me to send a copy along to analyze if someone has the LP version and the vinyl 45. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 08 November 2017 at 7:50pm
Bumping this up to see if anyone knows the answer to this. |
Gary wrote:Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 23 December 2020 at 3:34pm
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I just compared a file I have labeled "[promo 45 version, tom tom mix] {AK's collection}" to the version on the CD "No Protection" and other than the "No Protection" version being about 0.75% faster, I couldn't hear any differences.
The two files I have, when pitch corrected and summed to mono seem to be identical to my ears. Does anyone have the vinyl LP to compare? ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 23 December 2020 at 6:39pm
Here's a video of the 45 being played on YouTube. Music starts at about :20 and ends at about 4:51. It sounds the same to me as the 4:32 Rock Mix that's on the Promo CD Single. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaBaa_j1yMA - Starship - It's Not Over ('Til It's Over) 45 ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 23 December 2020 at 8:21pm
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Summarizing everything above, thirteen years later:
Starship - "It's Not Over ('Til It's Over)" promo CD single (6478-2-GDJ) Track 1: "Rock Mix" (4:32) - is also commercial 45 version, runs at 128.2 BPM Track 2: "Tom Mix" (4:16) - is also LP version, which is available on all the (reputable) commercial CDs - runs at 128.2 BPM The promo 45 includes the Tom Mix (4:16) on one side, and a 4:16 edit of the "Rock Mix" on the other side, with an edit at 2:44 that shortens the guitar solo. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 24 December 2020 at 4:28pm
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Can anyone describe any *mix* differences between "Rock
Mix" & "Tom Mix"? Andy |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 24 December 2020 at 8:39pm
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What is the ending point of the edit at 2:44 in the 'rock
mix'? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 24 December 2020 at 9:11pm
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Fantastic info, Ron! I'd say that sums it up very well.
I do have one last question: did radio mainly play the rock mix, the tom mix, or the rock mix edit? With the vinyl featuring the tom mix on side one, and the promo CD single featuring the rock mix as track one, I'm not clear. Was the promo CD released at the same time the promo vinyl was, or was it a later addition? (I don't remember seeing CDs at a radio station until 1988, and we were still be serviced by vinyl; I was having to buy commercial CDs to play CDs on the air.) ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 25 December 2020 at 7:19am
I just listened to both mixes on headphones. These are the only differences I noticed: 1. The drums sound more upfront on the intro in the "Rock Mix" 2. There is reverb on the first word, "Listen", on the "Tom Mix". I'm sure there's more differences, but I'll leave that up to the others here who have much better ears than me. If I had to guess, I'd say the differences are very subtle. I don't recall this song having alot of Top 40 airplay here in Philadelphia, but I definitely don't remember hearing any echo/reverb on the first word like there is on the "Tom Mix". So I'll assume that the stations in my area played the "Rock Mix". ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 25 December 2020 at 3:47pm
To Gene: I have the same file (presumably from the same collection). I think it might be in error; it sure sounds like the promo 45 'rock mix' edit, rather than the 'Tom mix' side... Andy |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 25 December 2020 at 3:49pm
Thank you Dan! Andy |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 26 December 2020 at 1:36pm
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Going to Discogs, it appears the Rock Mix (short & long) were the recommended mixes for radio to play.
I base this on the 7" promo having the short Rock Mix on side A, and the CD single having the long Rock Mix as track 1. Ron said this himself up above, and Dan above said he remembered the Rock Mix as the most likely version for his local top 40 to have played. Interestingly, Discogs also lists a pre-album release of a https://www.discogs.com/Starship-Its-Not-Over-Til-Its-Over/release/3302061 - 12" promo that lists its versions as "Long" and "Short Mix." Not owning this 12" I couldn't say if it is the long and short rock mixes, or a previously undiscovered long version of the Tom mix. (Hopefully there aren't any other options!) :) ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 26 December 2020 at 5:17pm
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To Gene:
I just checked and found I own the 12" promo you referenced. They are the long & short 'Rock Mix' versions with no echo on the opening word "Listen". Andy |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 26 December 2020 at 6:57pm
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Since this is an active discussion, I again wanted to ask
does anyone know where the edit points are for the 4:16 'rock mix'? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 27 December 2020 at 8:31am
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To John:
I'm not good at exact points, but the edit is approx. 2:46 to 3:00 of the longer "Rock Mix". Andy |
Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 27 December 2020 at 8:35am
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By the way, not to get too far off the subject of "It's Not Over...", but another single from the "No Protection" album was "Set The
Night To Music", the same song that would be a hit 4 years later for Roberta Flack & Maxi Priest. Discogs shows a commercial 45 in the US with a running time of 4:12 and a promo with that same 4:12 version being listed as "(Edited)". Does anyone know if this edit exists on CD at all, or if it can be extracted from the longer Album Version? I don't see any promo CD single listings for it. This song didn't hit the Pop Chart but did make the Top 10 (#9) on the AC chart. Thanks for any help with this. ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 27 December 2020 at 2:02pm
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EDITED
John, I see Aaron mention above it starts at 2:44 and the difference in length is about 15 seconds. My "quick and dirty" edit to match the short version has the edit starting at about 2:45.155 and going to 3:00.120 to remove 14.965 seconds but I suspect these marker might move a hair one way or the other to get a slightly cleaner edit and to truly match the single. The only tricky part is that the edit doesn't start on the snare at 2:44.654; it's a hair later, into the guitar chord, starting on the downbeat of one and there's not a great clear beat in the waveform to edit on there. Still, if you want to be accurate, that's where you chop from, take out 32 beats, and pick back up with the downbeat of 1 after the snare at 2:59.633. I hope this helps! ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |