B.J. Thomas- "Raindrops Keep Fallin’..."
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1859
Printed Date: 22 April 2026 at 5:23am
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Topic: B.J. Thomas- "Raindrops Keep Fallin’..."
Posted By: jimct
Subject: B.J. Thomas- "Raindrops Keep Fallin’..."
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 6:24pm
| My commercial 45, which is mono, has a listed time of (3:02), but actually runs two seconds longer, timing in at (3:04). I would not normally report only a 2-second time difference, but since the VAST majority of database CDs show run times for this between (2:57) and (3:00), I thought I would. Also, since it was a #1 hit, I thought it might be of above-average interest to those on the Board, so I ended up choosing to note it here anyway. I'd be happy to shoot out a dub of my 45, for anyone willing and skilled enough to compare/contrast it against the shorter database CD versions. |
Replies:
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 6:40pm
|
One thing I'd like to know is the difference between the soundtrack version and the single version (it would appear the difference isn't in the running times).
And are the stereo versions not labeled as "soundtrack versions" or "alternate takes" the correct single version, given what Jim has just posted (noting his 45 is mono and runs a couple seconds longer)? (Which may be what Jim is trying to imply if we were to compare the two versions.) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 15 March 2007 at 2:28am
| Doug, the song was completely re-recorded for single release, and the hit 45 version is an entirely different take from the soundtrack version. The two versions aren't really all that similar, and it is extremely easy to differentiate between the two. I was indeed hoping to inquire as to any possible differences between current stereo database CD appearances that purport to be the "45 version", and my mono (3:04) commercial 45 recording. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 February 2009 at 9:46pm
| Just thought I'd bump this thread back up to the front of the pack since Jim's commercial 45 run time info for B.J. Thomas' "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on My Head" was never incorporated in the database. Since CD run times of the hit version range from 2:56-3:01, the actual 45 run time of 3:04 takes on some added significance here. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 9:39am
Jim is completely correct about this. The 45 version has the opening line "Raindrops are falling on my head" where on the soundtrack version he sings "Raindrops keep falling on my head." Also, the mono version sounds like a fold-down of the stereo version (not the soundtrack version) to my ears; however, the copy I used from Time Life's "Singers & Songwriters" starts off too slow (by about 2%) and then gradually gains speed until the first vocal begins. The rest of the song sounds like the speed is constant. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
sriv94 wrote:Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 30 September 2012 at 4:19pm
|
There are three versions of this song, the sountrack version, the stereo hit version, and the mono hit version. The stereo hit version sounds to me exactly like the mono single version until you get to the truphet ending at the end of the song. If you listen to the stereo version you'll hear some slight errors in the truphet playing. You don't hear those errors on the mono 45. The keyboard in that section is slightly different there too so they probably re-did a couple of bars at the ending to make the trumphet "perfect" for the 45.
Anyone want to guess what's on the Complete Scepter Singles CD? I hear the slight trumphet errors, so apparently it's the stereo version folded down to mono. |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 30 September 2012 at 7:40pm
| Are any other of the mono versions listed correct? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 October 2012 at 1:44am
Bill, that would explain why I thought the mono version was just a fold down. Looks like they really goofed on this disc. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 01 October 2012 at 3:33am
|
Hi Jim,
I hope the offer you made in 2007 to shoot out a 45 dub is still good! WIth the recent posting of the trumpet being different at the end, combined with the wildly different timings and OST vs. alternate versions, it time to get to the bottom of this (as you point out) #1 tune. thanks. david ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 01 October 2012 at 5:31pm
| For those investigating, if you take either the Real Gone Complete Scepter Singles Collection or the Rhino Greatest Hits and compare it to a stock copy of Raindrops Keep Fallin On My Head, you should hear the difference at the end of the song. I'm not comparing to the trumphet break in the middle of the song but the trumphet ending, right after B. J. Thomas stops singing. The CDs mentioned above do not match the 45,as the trumphet and keyboards are slightly different on the first two bars of the trumphet led ending. The 45 is slightly softer on the trumphet too (on those two bars). |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 01 October 2012 at 5:36pm
| As far as what versions ARE the 45 mix, I can verify that "Eyes of A New York Woman" is the 45 mix, it is missing the sitar heard during the first verse on the stereo mix and features the edit at the end. "I Just Can't Help Believing" sounds like the 45, "Hooked on a Feeling" sounds like it's the 45 mix, and I have yet to determine any difference on "Everybody's Out Of Town" |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 01 October 2012 at 5:36pm
|
Does this mean the correct mono 45 mix (of Raindrops) has yet to
appear on CD? ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 08 December 2012 at 10:30pm
|
The database has not yet been updated to reflect Bill's discovery about the trumpet ending being different. Are any of the mono versions on CD correct? ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 10 December 2012 at 5:37pm
| The database has now been updated to reflect the LP vs 45 versions of this song. Oddly enough all of the mono appearances are simply the stereo version bridged to mono. Two cd's have a stereo 45 version of this song: Rhino 70752 Greatest Hits (2nd pressing) and GNP Crescendo 2256 #1 Hits 1970 - 1974 and both run slower than the 45. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 03 January 2013 at 8:10pm
|
Hi guys,
A cool tidbit of info i discovered, about these various versions. I had a CD out today as i wanted to update my PC with a better master of it, but i then read in DB that on this disc it's the "alternate take". All the opening lines sounded same to me, so i dug further. I have many cd's with the "LP version" so i pulled that one too. Awhile ago, i comparing the mono 45 dub with the LP version, i confirmed the info stated above, it's the same take until the trumpet "coda" .. it seemed that was tacked on from another take. Hmmmm. Another take. Then i thought, hey, knowing how tape reels get poorly labeled... notes are often incomplete, or worse, handwriting illegible. I figured there may be a reason this alternate take appeared in the first place. It may have been labeled as being used for the 45 version. Sho'nuff.. the first 1:09 is in fact the same as the 45/LP versions. Then it splices to a another take - the "wrong" take. But, then at 2:29, the trumpet ending - it becomes the 45 take! So, this alternate was used only for it's ending. What i think happened here is someone was attempting to reconstruct the hit take, but instead of checking by ear, too too much of the other take and spliced it in the middle of the song, instead of just the ending. NOW - this is useful info, even tho on 2 cd's, as Pat points out, someone did correctly splice the ending on to create the stereo 45. BUT, they didn't correct the pitch, so they are running way too slow, and also fade 5 secs too soon, even more too soon if you speed them up. So the good news is, with an Audio editor, one can create the correct 45 version by using any of the "LP Version" sources and placing the "alt take" trumpet ending on to it. And, in my synch i confirmed that the alt. take has the full length of the trumpet ending, and then some, so you can make the single correct pitch and length. One note tho; when you take on the trumpet ending, on the mono there is a half-second more silence after the word "me" before the trumpet coda starts, so you need to correct for that when doing your new edit. Now, as for mono vs. stereo. I carefully compared them side by side, i could hear little or no difference in any of the elements, not even reverb - so once you create the stereo 45, one can simply fold that result to mono and with some EQ adjustment, this should match the true mono mix as well. Hope this helps!! MM |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 03 January 2013 at 8:42pm
|
Outstanding detective work, Mark! I'm glad it's possible to get the
correct hit version using existing cd sources. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 03 January 2013 at 9:37pm
Nice work, Mark! Yeah, several years ago I posted that I thought the mono single was just a fold-down of the stereo version, but when the trumpet difference was discovered, I thought I must be wrong. Glad to see you got it ironed out. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:11pm
|
Just a little added info. I'm told for #1 hits we can't
have tooo much info. So here goes. I also wondered how the "O.S.T. Butch Cassidy.." Version fits in with these others, so i synched that too. As noted above, the first verse is an alternate take. But, then at about 1:06, the start of the 2nd verse, it becomes the "LP Version" and stays that all the way to end, including the trumpet ending. Funny thing is, the sound track is an alternate take in the *first* verse, and the "alternate take" version is such for all vocals *after* the first verse...i'm thinking we should get these 2 versions together for coffee. :-) I did get around t re-creating the true 45, thanks to Ed for providing a reliable 45 dub. I will note that, if you take this on and want it to be truly accurate, you will need to perform 3 pitch changes. This is one of those where the pitch in the 45 is not constant. compared the LP version, the first verse is pitched up about 3% (in my software, that means 3% of one semitone). Then the 2nd verse is pitch up anadditional5%. Then the 3rd verse is pitched up an addition 1% more. Finally, the trumpet coda, once taken from the "alternate take" you'll need to pitch up 12% faster than the CD. since all cd's with that version run the same time, i'll assume they all are the same speed. And finally, since Ed's 45 was so clean, i was able to carefully a/b for EQ and such... once you fold the stereo version to mono, a few minor EQ tweaks and just a touch of limiting, will give you the mono mix. They did NOT compress the 45 to death. To my ear there was no after-production or mixing done to his vocals or any elements. Any reverb was done live to tape so it's the same in all versions. Ok there ya have it - detective work done. MM |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 29 August 2020 at 10:03pm
There seem to be four versions of this song:
The song has three distinct sections. The four versions in existence are just different combinations of the two takes, for the three distinct sections of the song. I'll break this down by section, which seems to be the simplest way to pick this apart. Beginning to end of first piano break before second verse First line: "Raindrops keep fallin'..."
First syllable: "uh-Rain..."
Second and third notes seem to be doubled up or some bleed-through
------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 30 August 2020 at 1:16am
I have it from a reliable source that Bill Inglot digitally remixed "Raindrops..." in stereo to match the mono 45 specifically for the later pressing of the Rhino "Greatest Hits". The story relayed to me is that Bill and Ken Perry happened to be doing mastering at A&M when the staff tape librarian pulled the original 8 track multitrack for them to work from. Therefore, I'm not so sure the mono 45 could be a fold down of this stereo mix and I think it's more likely that the mono is an actual dedicated mix. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 25 September 2020 at 10:37pm
I was just listening to a collection on the Rhino label from 2001: The Very Best of Burt Bacharach Rhino R276721 Produced by Bill Inglot. On this CD, they have a nice clean sounding version that doesn't sound quite the way I'm used to hearing it. (Raindrops Keep...) I think I read earlier that Bill Inglot did some work on a different Rhino set that was pulled from 8 track masters? Maybe this Bacharach collection has that version? ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 24 October 2020 at 9:22am
| Bump |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 24 October 2020 at 3:39pm
The Very Best of Burt Bacharach Rhino release is essentially a single-disc overview of Rhino's "Look of Love" box set. All the tracks that appear on it are taken from said box set. This Bachrach disc contains the original LP mix of "Raindrops..." and not the slightly better sounding Bill Inglot "stereo single" remix which appeared on later pressings of Rhino's BJ Thomas "Greatest Hits". ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: C J Brown
Date Posted: 26 October 2020 at 4:03pm
|
How does anyone identify the proper Rhino B J Thomas
Greatest Hits containing the Inglot stereo single remix of Raindrops Keep Falling? |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 26 October 2020 at 6:06pm
On the reissue, the red oval Rhino logo on the spine replaces the lettering version of the Rhino logo. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: C J Brown
Date Posted: 27 October 2020 at 3:50pm
| OK Lunar - sounds easy enough - thanks |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 29 October 2020 at 1:54pm
|
If it helps, my copy of the disc was pressed at WEA in
Olyphant and has "W2387" followed by 3 R2 70752-2-05 in the inner ring. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: C J Brown
Date Posted: 29 October 2020 at 3:52pm
| yes very helpfull. Thanks again. |
Posted By: FrankG
Date Posted: 11 November 2020 at 5:24pm
|
I will say it again - you all are AMAZING. It's always
fascinating to read your detective work. |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 13 April 2026 at 10:34am
|
Some supplemental notes, after much research of my own, Part 1: They indeed recorded two takes: a slow one and a fast one. And yes, the released versions are assembled from different combinations of the 4 sections present in each take: Intro (to 0:04), 1st Half (to ~1:07), 2nd Half (to ~2:25), Outro. Some features of the slow take: About 105.5 BPM, intro strummed harder, 1st half starts "Raindrops are" (more like "uh" than "are", actually), 2nd half starts with "Raindrops", outro starts with trumpet mistake. Some features of the fast take: About 108 BPM, intro strummed softer, 1st half starts "Raindrops keep", 2nd half starts "uh-Raindrops", outro doesn't start with trumpet mistake. The differences aren't just in vocals. Instruments are played and mixed slightly differently. For example, at 0:23 the strings fade up in the slow take, but drop in relatively suddenly in the fast one. In the stereo versions, the piano should always be panned right. So here are the official versions released in 1969: • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MqqbQqRVj8" rel="nofollow - OST LP version : Slow intro, fast 1st half, fast 2nd half, slow outro. Bass panned wide. Intentionally mastered 2.0% fast. • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MimH7TNA2ao" rel="nofollow - LP version : Slow intro, slow 1st half, fast 2nd half, slow outro. • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CPn6AJVD98" rel="nofollow - DJ 45 version : Fast take in its entirety. Mono fold-down. Mastered 0.6% faster than OST LP. • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoSMLcoKH5s" rel="nofollow - 45 version : Slow intro, slow 1st half, fast 2nd half, fast outro. Mono fold-down. Mastered 0.9% faster than LP. ...The single version of “Raindrops” almost didn’t get released. “I actually did stop it from coming out,” Bacharach recalls. “It was set for release, but I turned down the pressing. I had been torn between two takes—one that sounded comfortable, one that had a lot of energy. I went with the comfortable one. But what I wound up doing was making an edit right in the middle of the song and picking up the fast one in the break. That’s how it was finally released.” (from https://performingsongwriter.com/raindrops-fallin-head/" rel="nofollow - a 2006 article in Performing Songwriter ) The retail 45 runtime is reported as 3:04 at the beginning of this thread, but AnotherProf's transfer runs 3:05 before it cuts off (although the bass drops out at 3:04.7). I can't tell if it was actually done fading out. I'm interested to hear other transfers. Neither of the 45s is on CD. The DJ 45 is impossible to replicate with CD sources due to the unique intro. As already noted, the retail 45 can be reconstructed if you're willing to use Inglot's remix as a source for the outro. I would use the LP version for the rest. The LP version is always sped up a little on CD, but the OST LP version is usually correct: • LP version on CD: Usually 0.8% faster than the original LP. In one case (20 Greatest Hits 1990 CD) I found it was 1.2% fast. About half the time, the channels are swapped. • OST version on CD: Usually exactly the same speed as the vinyl. Channel swaps are rare. Some remasters (1998–2001) seem to have the left channel volume boosted about 1 dB, which centers the bass better but makes the vocals a little off-center. Re: 1969 as a release year even for the LP version, I researched that, too, and found https://www.discogs.com/master/116737-BJ-Thomas-Raindrops-Keep-Fallin-On-My-Head" rel="nofollow - pretty good evidence in Billboard and Cash Box that it was available in the last week or two of December 1969, despite many newer discographies saying it was a 1970 release. An interesting mystery turned up in my research: https://www.bsnpubs.com/scepter/scepter/scepter.html" rel="nofollow - one particular discography mentions that the very first pressings of the LP, with runout matrix codes ending in A and B, had a "muddy mix" (I wonder if they meant mastering?), whereas letters C and up sounded better. I'd be interested to hear these to see what they're talking about. |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 13 April 2026 at 10:35am
|
Part 2 of my epic analysis (see previous message for part 1): What Ron called the "previously unreleased edit" is what the database is calling "single version but slower than the single and missing the last :07 of the trumpet ending on the single", and this is also what the database is calling "alternate take". They are all the same mix, which LunarLaugh learned is in fact a Bill Inglot remix. The fade length varies quite a bit, with the longest fades longer than the 45 (I think) and the shortest ones missing like 9 seconds. Therefore, I think the database should consistently refer to this version as something like "remix which is a failed attempt to re-create the single version in stereo". The reason why I say it failed is because, as was already pointed out, the 2nd half uses the previously unheard slow take. As for it being slower than the retail 45, well, it's using the slow takes for both halves, so this makes sense. Until the 2nd half, the speed and content are actually the same as on the 45 and LP, which are using the same take. However, in the remix, the first half has slightly narrower stereo, there's extra reverb on the intro (creating what sounds like an unintentional "ping"), and, in most appearances, the channels are swapped throughout (the piano is erroneously on the left). More database corrections: • If the rip I found is right, The Hits... and Much More has the soundtrack version, not LP version. • If the rip I found is right, The Very Best Of B.J. Thomas (Special Music 4827) is all vinyl transfers with extreme, crude noise reduction and terrible EQ. • I'm uncertain whether it's correct that the LP version on 20 Greatest Hits was mastered from vinyl. It seems to me it's the same master shared by most CDs, so the note would need to apply to all of them. I think the background noise in certain parts can be explained as tape damage and splices making their way through. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 April 2026 at 10:37pm
|
Impressive research! I'll do what I can to sort out the database entries, but there are 119 CDs listed. Not an easy task :( ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |