Hall & Oates - She’s Gone
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Printed Date: 14 July 2025 at 7:35pm
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Topic: Hall & Oates - She’s Gone
Posted By: aaronk
Subject: Hall & Oates - She’s Gone
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 1:03am
| I noticed that database doesn't list "45 version" for any CDs containing "She's Gone" by Hall & Oates. Instead, the comment "remixed 45 version" appears several times. What exactly is remixed on these versions? Did they correct the horrific edit on the horn solo in the middle, or is the entire song remixed? I don't own any of these CDs to verify. |
Replies:
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 8:05am
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Not sure what's remixed, but I do believe the "horrific edit" wasn't corrected. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 9:10am
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First, the 45 edit does appear on the Rock & Soul comp.
Second, from what i've ever been able to determine, the 45 was never remixed. It is the exact same mix as the LP. The LP master sounds a bit cleaner... Third, i've never heard a bad edit on the horn part. Perhaps Pat will tell us what he hears... |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 9:41am
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aaronk wrote:Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 11:45am
| Grant, you are correct that the 45 is the same mix as the LP. But there IS an awful edit on the horn solo. It's right before the last verse; they tried to splice two different parts of the horn solo mid-note. The result is, as I stated above, horrific. Now, perhaps some of these "remixed" 45 versions fixed the terrible edit, although Doug claims they do not. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 12:17pm
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The version on my iPod is the Rock 'N' Soul CD version. If we're talking about the same edit at the (2:00) mark, it does sound a bit clumsy.
I do have the T-L SotS: 1976 Take Two CD as well, but it's back at the house so I can't listen to that one right now to see if the edit is as bad (my guess is that it is). Those are the only CDs I have with the edited version. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 12:18pm
| Seriously, I never, ever noticed any bad edits! However, "remixed" is the wrong word to use here. "Re-edited" seems more appropriate. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 12:29pm
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OK, I cannot find the Time-Life CD I have the edited version on, but I do have the remastered "Rock & Soul" comp on Legacy/RCA. The edit is seamless, and it is the way I remember it on my Atlantic 45.
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Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 12:58pm
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Now, i've just found my old Time-Life CD "1976: Take Two", mastered way back in 1991, and played the 45 edit of "She's Gone". Again, same as the remastered "Rock & Soul" CD, no bad edit! It is seamless.
I think we can lay this one to rest. You have to admit, producer Arif Mardin did some very creative editing! Listen again for yourselves. I'll bet I could prove it again by digging up my old 45, but I don't have time. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 3:46pm
| I just listened to Jim's copy of the 45, which identical to the copy my friend has. The edit is much choppier on the 45 than on the CD at the (2:00) mark. It sounds like they smoothed it out for the CD. If you listen to the 45, the horn is mostly in the left channel before the edit, and it gets louder and more centered after the edit. On the Rock & Soul CD version, the horn is still "choppy" sounding, but seems to stay more in the left channel before and after the edit & stay about the same volume. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 6:41pm
| My notes on the cd "remixed" 45 version vs the vinyl 45 version indicate that on the 45, the high hat is very audible on the vinyl 45 but almost mixed completely out on the cd versions of the 45. Also there is an additional instrument mixed in on the cd versions at :29 to :30 (don't know what instrument that is - can anyone identify it?) that is not on the vinyl 45 at all. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 7:07pm
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Not having the 45, I'm at a disadvantage, but are you talking about a synthesizer-like sound that goes up at (:29), with a lower one going down at (:31)? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Gary Mack
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 7:31pm
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The bad edit on the promo 45 is quite noticeable on the stereo side, less so on the mono version, which is the way I often heard it at the time.
It sounds like a bad splice rather than an electronic edit. They chose to edit at the end of the last horn note, but there's a very short dropout there and the note trails off more to the right than when it started. Never noticed it before now when I completed a needle drop. My dj copy is the first 1974 release on Atlantic 2993, whereas the hit came two years later on Atlantic 3332. Run time is 3:26, though the label says 3:24. GM |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 14 June 2006 at 3:52pm
| It appears you guys are listening with headphones. I am not. That's why I never caught the L-R channel thing. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 7:44pm
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OK, since this topic has come up on another forum, I finally found my commercial Atlantic 45.
1. I do not detect any difference between the CD and the 45 at the :29 - :30 second mark. There are no added instruments. However... 2) The saxophone blast on the first bridge before the the verse abruptly switches to the right slightly stronger like others have pointed out. The CD versions have had it smoothed out, either my remixing or compression. But... 3) The hi-hat on the intro sounds sloppy, but about the same relative volume as the CD versions do. This is why it is probably carefully remixed in the intro and at the saxophone blast. Pat called it correctly! Let's call this case closed! BTW, the edit on the 45 does not bother me. I have made my own needle drop of it so I have a digital copy. ------------- |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 7:59pm
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As the "bringer-upper" on that forum, thanks for digging your 45 out and getting to the bottom of this one, Grant. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Gary Mack
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 5:41am
Which "commercial Atlantic 45" - the 1974 issue or 1976? GM |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 9:26am
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1976
The runout groove: ST-A 27668-3 STA 27668-3 92961 ------------- |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 24 September 2008 at 7:33pm
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I know we talk about CD here, and Pat says the 45 is remixed. But, yesterday, I was out shopping for used vinyl, and decided to look for copies of this song on 45. Well, I bought one with a different number on the runout groove. This one I just bought says: ST-A 27668-3 STA 27668-4.
I played it and it sounds different. The sound is smoother, like the CD versions, but still has the hard edit at the horn part. Add to that, the 45 has a lot of bass, about a 17db rise at around 45Hz, and it's not compressed like version 3. Gee, I hope I don't find another copy that has the horn part smoothed over! Anyway, I though you might like to know. I decided to not do a needle drop of it, and edited down the CD LP version to recreate the 45 edit. Then, I added that bass bump, but also added a bit of air. The edits are actually very easy to recreate, but the fade was troublesome, and I still don't have it perfect. ------------- |
Posted By: Gary Mack
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 5:47am
Hmmmm, the 1974 first release promo 45 is ST-A 27668-1 and, on the mono side, A 27668-1. Both labels list a 3:24 run time, but the stereo side is 3:26. GM |
Posted By: MCT1
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 7:29am
As always when we encounter these variations, I would be curious as to whether the various copies of this 45 discussed in this thread came from different pressing plants. Fortunately, Atlantic made it very easy to tell where a particular 45 was pressed. Atlantic generally printed the master number on the label of its 45s. From about 1967 or 1968 onwards, this number almost always has a two-letter suffix which indicates the plant that pressed the record. At the time this single was in production, neither Atlantic nor its parent Warner Music owned their own pressing facilities. Atlantic typically contracted with three or four different plants to supply 45s to various parts of the country. Common plant codes used around this era include: SP = Specialty Records, Olyphant, PA RI = PRC, Richmond, IN MO = Monarch Records, Los Angeles, CA PL = Plastic Products, Memphis, TN Gary and Hits Man, could you check your 45s to see what suffix they have on the label? |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 12:48pm
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I had to listen under headphones in order to hear the "horrendous" horn edit at the 2:00 mark, because I'd never heard anything remotely horrendous about the 45 version since first playing it in late 1973.
IMO, the degree of "horrendousness" that one might attribute to this edit depends on which version the listener either heard first, or associates with the most. In my case, I never cared for the long version; we played "She's Gone" from the 45 on my college station in '73-'74, and when I bought the single in January of '74, I obviously got the short version. To me, it has always sounded like several more horns coming in at the 2:00 mark, like a reinforcing blast of brass. Now that I've scrutinized the edit, yes, I can tell that it is, in fact, an edit. After playing the cut from the Abandoned Luncheonette LP, it was apparent that there was no edit at the comparable spot. Guess they couldn't afford the extra horn players. ;) Just the same, the edit doesn't bother me at all, because it's the single that I've always preferred. I'll continue to live with my extra-blast-o'brass theory... or at least I'll try to. The downside of discovering previously undetected edits is that from that moment on, they'll stick out like sore thumbs. Forever. Thanks a LOT! :) MCT1, any "She's Gone" 45s pressed by PRC would be the '76 reissue (3332) since Atlantic was not yet utilizing PRC for 45s in 1974. I have both '74 and '76 pressings from Specialty and Plastic Products. What's interesting is that in spite of the two-year gap between production, the stampers used by Specialty in 1976 were the exact same stampers they'd originally used in 1974. Ditto for Plastic Products; they'd also re-utilized their 1974 stampers. The matrix handwriting is identical on the Specialty plates, and aligns with the lead-in and trail-out grooves pefectly. Same for PP's own plates. The mastering changed at Atlantic during that two-year span, and while the short sides of both the Specialty and Plastic Products 1976 DJ pressings used the 1974 stampers, the long (5:15) sides were all cut in 1976, utilizing the smaller lead-in groove area and matrix handwriting typical of other Atlantic singles of that period. Here are the matrix numbers on my copies: Specialty short version pressing; 1974 promo, 1976 promo: "1-1" "ST-A27668-1" "SP" (the "SP" is hand-etched, with no Specialty logo) Plastic Products short version pressing; 1974 stock, 1976 stock, 1976 promo: "STA27668-2" "PP" (no dash in the matrix #) Here are some scans: (Left)1974 Specialty DJ pressing, stereo. (Right)1976 Specialty DJ pressing, short.  
1976 Specialty DJ pressing, long version. 
(L)1974 Plastic Products stock. (R)1976 Plastic Products stock.  
(L)The Atlantic "breakout" sleeve utilized for '74 and '76 Specialty promos, along with the mono side of the 1974 promo. (R)1974 "Regional Monsters" promo insert.  
(L)1976 Promotional EP for Abandoned Luncheonette included the LP's two 1974 singles on side one. "When The Morning Comes" featured the unedited LP version. (R)"When The Morning Comes" edited 45, the non-charting follow-up to "She's Gone" in 1974. (The intro is cut in half.)  
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 1:52pm
| Great posts, Yah Shure and MCT1! I certainly appreciate the depth of knowledge you guys have! |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 3:27pm
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MCT1,
The one with the brash sound has "MO", from Monarch. The one with the smoother, yet bassy sound, came from "RI". They are both styrene pressings. Thanks for the info on pressing plants! Most of the Atlantic records I have in my record collection are usually from either Monarch or Specialty. ------------- |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 3:31pm
Like you, I never noticed the horn edit until this forum, but I don't need headphones to hear it. When I recreated the 45 edit, It was easy to do the horn edit. All I had to do was concentrate on the drums and use the spectral view in Audition 3. I also prefer the single edit to the LP version. Man, did I get depressed after repeatedly listening to the song! ------------- |
Posted By: MCT1
Date Posted: 30 September 2008 at 10:09pm
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Yah Shure, I wish I had your record collection!
I guess it's hard to draw any conclusions as to why the one that sounds different is different. It's from a different plant from the others; it could have been a deliberate attempt to make the edit sound better, or it could just be a random difference related to mastering or pressing conditions at that plant. I'm in New England, so Specialty pressings tend to be dominant around here. I notice that the "When The Morning Comes" promo still has the 1841 Broadway address on it. If that was the follow-up to "She's Gone", I'd think the move to 75 Rockefeller Plaza must have happened by then. I guess Specialty still hadn't run through its inventory of 1841 Broadway promo labels yet. I have a stock copy of "Waterloo" by Abba (3035) pressed by Specialty which has the 75 Rockefeller Plaza address. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 October 2008 at 7:16am
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MCT1, you have sharp eyes! You are quite correct in saying that Specialty hadn't exhausted its inventory of 1841 B'way promo labels. I checked my copies of "Waterloo," and found the updated 75 Rockefeller Plaza address on stock copies from both Plastic Products and Monarch. My only promo copy from PP had the 75 Rock addy on the mono side label, but the older 1841 label on the stereo side.
So I went back and checked my Specialty and PP promos of "When The Morning Comes." The Specialty pressing has the old 1841 labels on both stereo and mono sides, while the PP copy utilized the same configuration as their later "Waterloo" pressing: 1841 B'way stereo/75 Rock mono. So PP ran out of the older mono Atlantic promo labels before Specialty did. Then there are the variations in the pinwheel on the Atlantic labels... but that's a whole 'nother thread. :) 
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Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 04 October 2008 at 6:08pm
So do I. If you ever want to clear out some space, I'd be glad to take some of them off your hands! :) |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 04 October 2008 at 10:33pm
(Note to self: Beef up home security system.) Thanks, guys. Although they didn't chart, here are the first two Hall & Oates Atlantic 45s. Note the interesting artist credits. On the Whole Oats album cited on both labels, the artists are listed only as Daryl Hall & John Oates on both the cover and the LP label. There is a "The arrangements are by Whole Oats." mention on the back cover, but that's it. "Goodnight And Good Morning" came out in late 1972, and I'd made an April, 1973 purchase date notation on the "I'm Sorry" sleeve.  
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Posted By: MCT1
Date Posted: 07 October 2008 at 9:58am
Just to confuse things further, check out this label scan of a Specialty stereo long/short promo of Led Zeppelin's "D'yer Mak'er" (2986), with a 75 Rockefeller address on it: http://www.vjez.com/zep/us45/dyeUSprosps.jpg - http://www.vjez.com/zep/us45/dyeUSprosps.jpg "D'yer Mak'er" reached its chart peak of #20 in the final week of 1973, remaining in the Top 40 for the first few weeks of 1974. Based on that, even if this copy is a later re-service, I'd still expect it to have been pressed earlier than promos of "When The Morning Comes". The same site also has a label scans of several other stock and promo copies of this title, including a Specialty mono long/short promo. All have 1841 Broadway addresses so far as can be seen (one Specialty stock copy, identified as a "re-issue" for reasons not apparent to me, is pictured inside a factory sleeve which covers the address).
You know, I never noticed that before.... |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 07 October 2008 at 11:57am
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What's interesting in the D'yer Mak'er scan is that it's labeled as the Short Version, the time listed is the full length 4:19. The short version, I believe, actually ran 3:15.
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Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 09 May 2009 at 8:23pm
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A side note regarding "She's Gone"... The actual run time of Jim's commercial 45 copy is 3:26. (The printed record label time is 3:24.) I mention this as a supplement to the database, which presently only shows DJ run time info for the song.
By the way, did we ever determine if the original hit 45 mix has appeared anywhere on CD? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 7:38am
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i just listened to my commercial 45 issued as atlantic 3332 next to the cd version from "greatest hits-rock and soul pt 1" and they sound identical to me.....don't know where this "remixed" idea comes from....it should be removed ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 2:11pm
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I have to admit, I'm still not entirely clear regarding the 45 version situation with Daryl Hall & John Oates' "She's Gone"... Are we in essence dealing with two different 45 pressings here where one is a straight edit of the LP version and the other is slightly remixed? Do the mixes differ significantly enough to warrant mention in the database? And do all 45 pressings contain the rough edit in question?
Now, if the rough edit on the 45 version of "She's Gone" was smoothed out specifically for CD release, wouldn't this by definition render it an incorrect 45 version? There seems to be some debate here as to whether the term "remix" is appropriate in this instance. Perhaps it might be more accurate to have the "remixed 45 version" comments re-stated to read something like: "this is technically not the 45 version as there is a slightly different edit at the x:xx mark". Any further thoughts on this? |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 7:35pm
| I don't have enough sources to compare but I thought at least the original issue of "Rock and Soul Part One" had the original "She's Gone" single edit. Later I heard an improved edit which I assumed was a crossfade at the horns to make it sound smoother. I don't have an commercial CD source for that but I know that TM Century Gold disc issued it sounding better. I don't know if they did it themselves or they got it from a later CD release. |
Posted By: vinyljay69
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 8:34am
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Wanting to compile a Hall & Oates singles collection, I've begun to research and compare the 45's I have to whatever CD sources I have at my disposal. "She's Gone" has proven to be the trickiest yet to dissect.
Comparing the 45 (1976 press) to the version on the original "Rock n Soul" comp. from 1983 (both LP and non-remastered CD), the subtle level differences Pat has detailed of the hi-hat on the intro and synth at 0:28 (a Moog, maybe) being lower can be heard, though neither is significantly different. The chop edit at 2:00 on the 45 is also less obvious on the RNS version, so the possibility exists that it could be a slight remix of the single. Sonically, the stereo 45 has solid mid-range punch, while the RNS version has those frequencies carved out a bit more. So it's equally possible that eq alterations and mastering preferences could account for the perceived variations. (Personally, I'd opt for the latter.) Here's where it gets trickier - the 2006 remaster of the RNS comp. offers a new re-edit. Close listening to either the 45 or 1983 RNS version reveals the first edit point to be at 0:05. The 2006 version has the first edit one full beat and second earlier at 0:04 - the guitar amp in the background can be subtly heard fading up earlier because of the different edit point. The perceived mix variations from 1983 are also gone, but the most noticeable difference is that the rough edit at 2:00 is now almost completely cleaned up and smoothed over. Looking at a visual representation of the audio in a wav editor, it appears they accomplished this with a slight volume drop and a lot of compression and/or limiting. At any rate, it's the best that particular edit point has ever sounded. But wait - if you act now, you'll get even more confused! How about yet another edit variation? Yep - the "Atlantic Soul (1959-1976)" box features an alternate edit at 2:00 that removes the two-beat drum fill and replaces it with the steady snare hits that lead into the (excised) sax solo. It's a well-done, unique edit that can't easily be recreated without some fancy editing and crossfading, leading me to believe it was created specifically to replace the original Atlantic 45 edit. So the 45 itself is only an edit and not a remix of the LP version from "Abandoned Luncheonette". Citing just the sources above, there are at least three different variations of it available on CD, with the original, non-remastered "Rock n Soul" version being the closest rendering in the digital realm, but none seem to be a genuine representation of the 45. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 11:03am
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Thanks for the nice first post! If I have a chance, I'll have to do another
comparison between the original 45 and the RNS edit. When I compared them years ago, I wasn't inclined to believe that it was an EQ and mastering difference, but it would be worth looking into again. Welcome to the board! ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 5:18pm
| Motion seconded. Welcome! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 24 September 2015 at 6:32pm
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Nice work, vinyljay! I don't have many copies of "She's Gone", but I'll contribute what I have. I have the LP version on:
One is RCA's Greatest Hits Rock 'N Soul Part 1, which vinyljay described above. The other is on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 18 1976 Take Two (1991), with a differently EQ'd digital clone on Time-Life's 2-CD Body Talk Vol. 5 Sealed With A Kiss (1996) and another differently-EQ'd digital clone on Time-Life's 2-CD Classic Soft Rock Vol. 2 Ride Like The Wind (2006). I haven't picked these apart in detail. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 14 July 2025 at 2:25am
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The version on Greatest Hits - Rock 'n Soul, Part 1 matches The45Prof's rip of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEvgOiP9Tk" rel="nofollow - the 1976 45 perfectly, as well as his rip of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLRcq-ZkWsg" rel="nofollow - the mono-only 1974 promo 45 . The only difference is the 45s play 0.39% slow. The version on Sounds of the Seventies - 1976: Take Two and the two other compilations Ron mentioned is definitely a re-creation. The very first edit, instead of cutting out 18.8s at about 0:04.8 (assuming leading silence was trimmed), cuts out the same duration starting at about 0:03, when the two bass guitar notes play. At the next edit point where they cut out about 12.2s starting at about 0:18.5, they got the timing very slightly off; it's a hair too soon compared to the 45. And at the 2:00 edit point, it's crossfaded for a half-second, which makes the drums kinda mush together. |