Cherish - Association
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1035
Printed Date: 14 May 2025 at 4:09am
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Topic: Cherish - Association
Posted By: maciav
Subject: Cherish - Association
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 11:42am
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I was wondering if somebody could help me with this. I have The Association's "Cherish" on several CDs, and on everyone of them there is a scratchy, static-type sound that occurs between 2:38 and 2:45 of the song (my discs all have the Stereo-LP version). Is there any disc that doesn't have this noise, or was it mastered that way? Additionally, does anybody anticipate this coming out again soon in its 45-version? I don't want to have to invest big bucks for a used Dick Bartley Greatest Love Songs CD if I don't have to (it seems to be the only way to get the 45-version). Thanks to anyone who can help me. ------------- Mike C. from PA |
Replies:
Posted By: maciav
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 6:25am
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Pat,
Can you help me with this? Have you ever noticed this noise? ------------- Mike C. from PA |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 6:41am
| I just listened to Cherish on the Association's Greatest Hits cd and I do not hear any static or any other problem between 2:38 and 2:45 - sorry! |
Posted By: maciav
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 7:56am
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Thanks Pat. My discs containing "Cherish" are "The Association - The Essentials" and "Billboard's Top Pop Hits of 1966". They are both Rhino discs, and they both have noise unless I am hearing things. Do you have these discs to check? Thank you. ------------- Mike C. from PA |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 18 January 2008 at 9:41am
| Regarding the mono 45 version, what are the differences between that and the LP version? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 18 January 2008 at 10:00am
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One of the two "and I do. . .cherish you" passages is edited out (I think it's the first one, but don't quote me). ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 18 January 2008 at 5:55pm
| Hit a corner record shop and picked up a really nice 45 of this today... |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 06 March 2009 at 11:57am
| Our commercial copy of "Cherish" by The Association (Valiant 747) states a time of (3:00), but actually runs (3:12). |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 06 March 2009 at 3:26pm
| Wanted to revisit this one. Besides the edit that Doug mentioned, which is correct, the 45 run slightly faster than the LP. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:10pm
So does this mean that a stereo 45 version can be successfully replicated from the stereo LP version, or is there missing or unique audio in the mono 45 that would not make this possible?
Actually, when using heaphones I have noticed what sounds like some distortion on all stereo LP version appearances between 2:35-2:44 right after the word "you" in the following verses: You don't know how many times I've wished that I had told you (brief distortion then occurs) You don't know how many times I've wished that I could hold you (brief distortion occurs again, only more loudly) The distortion sounds sort of like the static-like noise that occurs when turning a dirty knob on a mixing board. I do not hear this distortion at all on the mono 45 version. One more thing... the pitch of the LP version seems to vary from CD to CD with the 3:21 length being the fastest to the 3:25 time being the slowest. Does anyone know the correct LP time and speed? |
eriejwg wrote:Posted By: maciav
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 4:41pm
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Todd,
Thank you for helping me with this. It is good to know that after 3.5 years I was not hearing things. I always wondered about this, and you helped to explain it! Thanks again! ------------- Mike C. from PA |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 27 March 2016 at 9:40pm
Two "and I do......cherish you" passages edited out, the very last two before the final "cherish...is.......the....word...." ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 04 February 2022 at 3:58pm
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Can someone tell me where "Cherish" on JCI's 1996 CD "Only
Rock 'N' Roll: #1 Radio Hits 1965-1969" is sourced from? I would assume it's just off the old Association's Greatest Hits disc (which I don't own), but just wanted to see if anyone here had done an A/B comparison and knew for sure. I don't think I have the stereo mix on any other disc in my collection currently. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 04 February 2022 at 5:05pm
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I have a copy of Dick Bartley "Rock & Roll Love Songs" a 1999 printing that seems to be a mono recording, might be a fold-down.
I don't hear the distorted area in question (2:38 - 2:45), though I thought I did hear a couple pops like a needledrop would make. Most prominent at 00:50. Overall, I'd say the copy on this disc is pretty poor in general. Maybe it's lifted from a 45? I'm going to go looking for a stereo version to compare. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 04 February 2022 at 5:09pm
I was once told that certain Dick Bartley discs contained a track or two sourced from vinyl needledrops in Dick's own collection (typically housed on broadcast carts). If it wasn't in the budget to locate a tape source, I assume that was the next best thing. The stereo mix of Aaron Neville's "Tell It Like It Is" on Collector's Essentials is one such example. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 February 2022 at 6:28pm
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Quick write-up:
The oldest mastering I have is on Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 1 1966, where it sounds fine but the levels are a little low. The same analog transfer is used on:
There's still another analog transfer on Mystic Music's 2-CD Groovin' (1992), which has its left and right channels swapped. I'm partial to the Rhino mastering myself, but I like the boosted high end. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 04 February 2022 at 7:15pm
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Is maciav still hanging around this forum? I'd be happy to provide the mono version I have on the D.B. Rock & Roll Love Songs. IIRC, I picked it up on ebay for like 9 or 10,
bucks a few years ago. I also listened to the 1966 Superhits that Ron mentioned above. On the disc I have, I didn't detect any of the scratchy noise maciav described. I did hear a diminished "Pop" sound again at the 00:50 point. More like 00:50.5 on this stereo recording. Sounds like the same noise with a hint of NR applied to remove it. I sure was surprised to hear nothing in the right channel for a few seconds though. I know that kind of stuff was popular to do at the time. I had thought my headphones were messing up at first. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 February 2022 at 8:20pm
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One more: I can trace the mastering on Superhits as being the same analog transfer as the Warner Special Products Association collection called Songs That Made Them Famous (1984), but shortening the very tail of the fade by a few seconds.
I still prefer the Rhino disc. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 05 February 2022 at 6:17am
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Hi People,
Please keep in mind a few CDs have that Godawful Haeco-CSG processing on "Cherish" that was first introduced on the vinyl 'Association's Greatest Hits' LP, and subsequently made it to the 'Association's Greatest Hits' CD. Andy |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 05 February 2022 at 10:13pm
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Reading about the Haeco-CSG process on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haeco-CSG - Wikipedia , it got me wondering if this process might be a benefit to internet radio stations, which are often listened to on (mono) smartphone speakers and (mono) smart speakers like Amazon Alexa Dot and Google's Nest.
Does anybody know of any FM stations that have used the process to compensate for listeners using alarm clock radios and small transistor radios? ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 06 February 2022 at 6:22am
Hi Gene, I would suggest no internet station experiment in 2022 with this process as it makes headphone listening a diffuse, confusing experience (and a lot of people listen on headphones these days). Plus, by the early-to-mid '70s about 99% of all professionally released recordings were mixed to be compatible in stereo as well as when folded down to mono. The reason why the Haeco-CSG system was introduced back in the '60s was because some smaller studios had only 4- tracks, or only 8-tracks with no pan-pots on the board - therefore phantom-center channel information might dominate side-channel information when folded down to monaural. Record companies at that time wanted to save money by not hiring union studios to also mix in mono now that stereo was the customer-preferred format. Andy |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 06 February 2022 at 10:26am
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You can remove Haeco-CSG processing by using an audio editor to apply a 90 degree phase shift to the right channel. Unfortunately there is no way to tell whether it was originally applied as a negative phase shift or positive phase shift, so if the two channels come out as out-of-phase after removing the Haeco-CSG phase shift, then invert one of the channels to correct it.
In the case of the Association "Greatest Hits" album (on LP or CD), some tracks have Haeco-CSG with a positive phase shift, some have it with a negative phase shift, and some don't use it at all (the ones which were mixed with everything far left or far right and don't have anything in the middle). The big hits -- "Cherish", "Windy", "Never My Love", and "Along Comes Mary" -- all sound far superior with the Haeco-CSG processing removed. Other notable hits with Haeco-CSG processing which wasn't removed for their CD releases: Cream - White Room Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 - Fool On The Hill The Vogues - Turn Around, Look At Me |
Posted By: whyaduck
Date Posted: 12 February 2022 at 8:25pm
There are 2 Wheels Of Fire releases I know of that the CSG have it removed (or possible never present on the masters used), the 2010 SHM-CD and SHM-SACD from Japan. Which one prefers is in the ear of the beholder! |
Posted By: maciav
Date Posted: 15 February 2022 at 4:26pm
------------- Mike C. from PA |
Posted By: maciav
Date Posted: 15 February 2022 at 4:38pm
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Thank you for responding.
I apologize for not responding sooner. I have not been able to be on this site much lately. Thank you for your kind offer; in fact, I have the same Dick Bartley CD. I discovered years later that the scratchy sound I initially wrote about 16 years ago is on all CDs that I own with the stereo LP-version. These have an extra "And I do. Cherish you." Therefore, the stereo LP-version is longer in length than the mono 45-version. Off the top of my head, the mono 45-version runs around 3:12; nonetheless, CDs such as the Bartley CD with the mono 45- version do not have this scratchy sound because it occurs during the extra lyrics I mention above. Perhaps this scratchy sound is supposed to be on the stereo LP- version, or I have just been hearing things for a very long time. Again, any CDs with the mono 45-version (and I know there are not many of them that have been released) do not have the scratchy sound that caused me to write my original post. Thanks again. Mike ------------- Mike C. from PA |