Janet Jackson - "The Pleasure Principle"
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Topic: Janet Jackson - "The Pleasure Principle"
Posted By: jimct
Subject: Janet Jackson - "The Pleasure Principle"
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 1:55am
| Both sides of my promo 45 claim to be "SIDE A-S", and have a listed (4:19), and actual (4:20) (7" vocal) on them. Deadwax A&M AM 02927-A-S ES1. |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 7:57am
| Aha! I knew there had to be a shorter version of this one. Good work, Jim! |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 9:07am
| I don't have access to my CD library at the moment, but does the 4:20 DJ edit appear on the Janet Jackson import CD Control: The Remixes? |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 9:20am
|
Todd, the 7" vocal (Shep Pettibone remix) is not available on any of the "Control: The Remixes" remix albums. Not the UK, German or the Japan "More Control" CD.
In fact, "Pleasure Principle" is only included on the German version, in its "Long Vocal Remix" and "Dub Edit" versions. I have the 7" vocal on the commercial USA 12" single (I much prefer the video version, it preserves some of the "hot" moments of the "Long vocal" mix). |
Posted By: cmmmbase
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 10:16am
| The UK version of the 1995 greatest hits cd (Design of a decade) has a 4:13 version |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 11:07am
| That is an edit of the "Control" album version. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 12:08pm
|
Yes, I have searched high and low and high again, but the 7" Vocal remix of "Pleasure Principle" has never to my knowledge been released on CD.
An edit of the LP Version (probably the DJ edit) is indeed on the UK edition of Design of a Decade, as are the 45 versions of Nasty and What Have You Done for Me Lately. The commercial 45 version of Let's Wait Awhile was a remix and is available on the import "Control: The Remixes." I don't know that the exact 45 version of Miss You Much has ever been issued on a full-length CD. Design of a Decade cuts the "buzzing" intro, and the LP version has her speaking over that part, whereas the 45 has just the "buzzing." Of course there are several CD singles from several countries, including the US, that do use the 45 version. I started a "Janet Jackson: The 45 Versions on CD" list about a year ago, then never posted it. I suppose I should finish it. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 12:09pm
|
BTW, the all cassette single issues I've seen of Pleasure Principle use the 7" Vocal remix. All vinyl 45s I've seen use the full-length album version.
Anyone know if there were multiple 45/cassette single releases, as we've been finding for other artists lately? |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 3:26pm
|
[QUOTE=Brian W.]
An edit of the LP Version (probably the DJ edit) is indeed on the UK edition of Design of a Decade, as are the 45 versions of Nasty and What Have You Done for Me Lately. The commercial 45 version of Let's Wait Awhile was a remix and is available on the import "Control: The Remixes." QUOTE] Brian, since you mention 45 versions from the "Control" album included on the UK "Design Of A Decade", I'd like to add the single "Control", also included in its original 45 version. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 3:56pm
|
I'd like to note that there are two different import "Control-The Remixes" releases, with different artwork and track listing.
A third remix album was released in Japan called "More Control". Here are the details for each: Control-The Remixes (front artwork from "When I Think Of You" single) (396 924-2) Made and printed in West Germany 1.Control (Video Mix) 2.Nasty (Extended) 3.Nasty (Cool Summer Mix-Part 1) 4.What Have You Done For Me Lately (Extended Mix) 5.When I Think Of You (Extra Beats) 6.When I Think Of You (Dance Remix) 7.Control (Acappella) 8.Let's Wait Awhile (Remix) Control-The Remixes (front photograph taken from the back of "Pleasure Principle" single cover) UK: CDMID 149, Intl: 396 942-2 Disc itself says made in England, back insert states "CD is made in West Germany"... 1.Control (The Video Mix) 2.When I Think Of You (Dance Remix) 3.The Pleasure Principle (Long Vocal Remix) 4.What Have You Done For Me Lately (Extended Mix) 5.Nasty (Cool Summer Mix-Part Two) 6.Let's Wait Awhile (Remix) 7.Nasty (Cool Summer Mix-Part One) 8. The Pleasure Principle (Dub Edit) More Control (front artwork similar to "Control" album cover, different background and lettering) D32Y3148 Made in Japan 1.What Have You Done For Me Lately (Extended Mix) 2.Nasty (Extended Mix) 3.When I Think Of You (Dance Remix) 4.Control (Extended Version) 5.What Have You Done For Me Lately (Dub Version) 6.Nasty (Cool Summer Mix-Part Two) 7.When I Think Of You (Instrumental) 8.Control (Video Mix) 9.Let's Wait Awhile (track 9 is the remix, even though it is not noted) Each of these releses has versions unique to them, that is why I bought all three. I am a big fan of Jam & Lewis : ) |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:57pm
Actually, no, it's not. That little sound on the intro is not on the US 45 version, and the 45 version has the a stronger sound on the first note, sort of a burst of sound, almost like an explosion. The true US 45 version has only been issued on Time-Life "Legends: Livin' on a Prayer" and the OOP Time-Life box set "Gold and Platinum: The Ultimate Rock Collection." |
elcoleccionista wrote:Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 9:37pm
| Brian, you are right! I just checked a Janet "A&M Memories" 7 inch single I have had for years and noticed the difference. I was about to give it away, thanks! : ) |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 9:47pm
| Are the 45 versions of "Nasty" and "What Have You Done for Me Lately" edits of their respective LP versions or different mixes? |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 10:09pm
| As far as I can tell they are simply edits. Brian? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 11:36pm
|
I believe they're just edits. And of course the fade-out of "What Have You Done for Me Lately" extends a second or two longer, but I think it does on the the US LP-length "Design of a Decade" as well. It's truncated on the LP version as it slams right into the next track with no pause.
There WAS a remix/edit of "Nasty" that's was on a reissue cassette single, but I've never heard it, just saw it in the store. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 02 June 2006 at 12:58am
|
Brian, sounds like I may have the vinyl version of that reissue cassette single.
The 45's catalog number is AM-8676. Side A "Nasty" (Remix), Side B "Pleasure Principle". Now, I hadn't listened to this 45 in probably 15 years, as well as the other one with the original "Control" 45 version that you noted, guess I unknowingly took both for granted: I always thought "Nasty" was incorrectly labeled "Remix" since it seemed like simply an edit of the album version. But upon close listening just now, I did found one part which can not be recreated by editing the album version, so only for that it actually is a remix I guess. At 2:38 when she finishes the third chorus "...oh you nasty boys" on both album, extended and UK "Greatest Hits" version, there is a sound, sort of a brief "wind effect" on one of the channels only. That sound is not present on the version from the reissue 45 single. Since the other reissue 7" I have (AM-8673) does include the original 45 version of "Control" that you noted, it would make sense if "Nasty", were presented in its original 45 version on AM-8676. Does anyone have an original issue of the "Nasty" 45 single to confirm this? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 June 2006 at 1:50pm
Not only is the ending extended when compared to the LP version, but there's also a slight mix difference on the 45. On the LP version, the keyboard in the background echoes with the vocal; on the 45 it does not. Ed pointed out this difference to me, which I had not noticed. Now, I also have a dub of a 45 for "Control." As far as I can tell, it is simply an edit of the LP version. I think this dub is from a DJ 45. That may be the difference between what you're hearing on the commercial release, and what I'm hearing on this 45. Brian, I'll let you decide if what I have matches the 45 version you're referencing. |
Posted By: Paul Esch
Date Posted: 03 June 2006 at 6:59am
|
My original 45 of "Nasty" (A&M 2830) does not have that sound at
the 2:38 mark. So is the US commercial 45 version available on any CD (domestic or import)? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 03 June 2006 at 3:46pm
|
my commercial 45 issued as a&m 2830 is identical to the import cd version from "design of a decade" and runs 3:45....i don't hear what you all are hearin'....sorry.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 03 June 2006 at 7:54pm
|
Ed, do you have the "Nasty" album version handy? If so, check at 2:57, see if you detect the effect there.
|
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 4:41am
|
no....i sold my cd's after i got the correct 45 versions......sorry i can't help further on this one... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 2:16pm
| I do hear what elcoleccionista is hearing -- it's in the right ear, sort of a "scratching" sound in one ear, like a pool cue moving across a chalkboard, at about 2:38 -- but for the life of me I can't find my album of Control, so I can't contribute much further to this discussion, as I don't think I have the vinyl 45. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 4:24pm
|
what is the source are you listening to??? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 9:10pm
The UK two-disc "Design of a Decade." It's this little "whoosh" or "scrape" sound effect in the right channel at about 2:38, after she says, "Oh, you nasty boys." You can probably only hear it with headphones. I have this same edit on a Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis promo sampler, though the final note of the song is truncated, and the sound effect is on there too. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 12:12am
|
Yes, Brian, I do hear what you are talking about. The funny thing is that TM Century has the true 45 version on one of the newer discs in their library, but it's transferred from vinyl. I wondered why they didn't just simply edit down the LP version to create the single, and this must be the reason why.
Do you detect other mix differences? I haven't been able to find any... |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 12:25am
First of all, NICE CATCH! I certainly had never noticed that when I was creating my own single version. And while it is true that you can't exactly create the 45 version from the LP, if you take the very last "boys" of the song, and paste it in place of the one with the sound effect, you can come very close to having the 45 version. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 1:38am
No, but like I said, I've misplaced my Control CD, so I haven't done a thorough comparison yet. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 6:54am
|
sorry...on my import greatest hits cd i don't hear that sound effect...... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 8:01am
|
so.......except for this scratching sound at the 2:38 mark, are the 45 and the version from the import greatest hits cd identical????........i'm confused... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 8:41am
| I will do another round tonight comparing the 45 to the "Design" version, but the first time I did, yes, that is the only difference I noticed. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 12:45pm
| Johann, I thought you didn't have the original 45, only the reissue. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 1:06pm
|
I don't, sorry if I confused you, I'll rephrase:
Tonight I will compare again what I hear on my reissue "Nasty (Remix) / Pleasure Principle" 7 inch single to what I do on the "Design of a Decade" CD. But I am pretty sure that was the only difference. I will confirm. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 5:32pm
|
Just done, that is the only difference between both versions.
Aaron, you are right, good one! I tried and it almost worked for me, not 100% because in the section where I had to paste the remainder of the track, she starts the "N" from "Nastyyyy Boys..." a little before the actual beat, and I couldn't go backwards to look for the cut, because that "wooosh" sound is right next to the start of the "n" sound. So if you become a real pain in the a... (as I am with these things) you can notice that partially missing initial "n" sound. I then gave it a less "anal" listen, and unless you know what the "problem" is, I believe it may go unnoticed. Did I make sense? It may be time for me to go to the gym for a while : p |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 June 2006 at 8:59pm
|
Oh, I understand now. Your reissue 45 that says (remix) does NOT have the "whoosh" sound, right?
I'm still hoping someone will send me an MP3 of the original vinyl 45 to confirm for myself. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 5:36am
|
That's right.
From earlier posts on the thread, Paul Esch and Edtop40 seem to have original vinyl 45's of "Nasty". |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 6:28am
|
brian...i will send my commercial 45 copy tonight to you..... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 7:20pm
|
aaron.......thx for pointing that slight difference.........thx for the mp3 of the sections........i just reviewed it again.........the reason i didn't hear it the first time is because i do my a/b'ing by listening to the 45 leading and the cd version following........when i toggle back and forth between them i compare the 45 versus the cd and at that point it's so fast that i couldn't get back fast enough.....BUT.........when i listen to the cd version leading the 45 version it's obvious......the import cd version has this swoosh while the commercial 45 version does not......aaron........a question..........can the true 45 be extracted from the other components of the full cd version???........if not can we use the actual 45 spliced in to make it happen..........what do you think.........edtop40 ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 7:22pm
|
brian do you still want a copy of the actual commercial 45??? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 06 June 2006 at 9:23pm
Yes, please, Ed. Thank you. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:33pm
|
For anyone who is trying to create the true 45 version of "Nasty," I have a CD source where you can get the section you need: Control: The Remixes with the "Extended" mix of "Nasty."
At (3:43) is the section (without the "wind" sound effects) that can be inserted at the (2:38) mark of the 45 edit. :) My next question for Johann (or anyone who knows)--- Can you re-create the 7" vocal version of "Pleasure Principle" by editing the "Long Vocal Remix" on the German version of the above mentioned CD? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 20 August 2006 at 2:50pm
|
aaron...are you talking about the 45 version or some other version....the 45 version is the same as the version from the cd control, i believe.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 20 August 2006 at 3:14pm
You are correct that the vinyl 45 is the Control LP version. Jim and some others posted above that the DJ 45 and commerical cassette single contains the 7" Vocal version, which is a remix. I'm wondering if you can create this version by editing that extended remix. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 20 August 2006 at 7:44pm
Thanks for that, Aaron! Now... as far as I know, you can't create the 7" Vocal of "Pleasure Principle" from the Extended Vocal, but I'll admit I've never tried. You'd have to take the intro from the LP version, I believe, and dub her acapella "I promise, I'll be worth the wait" over that. I really should give it a go one of these days. The 7" Vocal was the commercial 45 version in England. I wonder if that's ever turned up on a comp anywhere, considering our recent discoveries of the Madonna remix edits. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 21 August 2006 at 5:03pm
|
Aaron, it is my understanding that the 7" Vocal cannot be recreated using the Long Vocal Remix, for starters because it begins with a fade in synth sound, similar to a piano sustain in reverse, that goes back "forward" with the first beat, and that part is absent on any part of the Extended Vocal. For the rest of the 7" Vocal, it could be edited down from the Long as far as I can tell.
The version that can be entirely recreated from the Long Vocal is the Video Mix, which is just an edit of it. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 August 2006 at 10:57pm
| Johann, thank you very much for the info! I'm going to try to obtain a copy of that import CD and the vinyl 7" vocal. I'll just dub any missing parts from the vinyl for my re-creation. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 23 August 2006 at 9:39am
| Aaron, if you need a WAV of the Extended Vocal and have, say a Gmail account that can hold its size, all you need is ask : ) |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 29 August 2006 at 9:25pm
| Question for Jim or anyone else privy to promo 45 information for "The Pleasure Principle"... Do both sides of the promo 45 contain the 7" Vocal Version remix, or does one side feature an edit of the LP version? Currently, the database doesn't specify that DJ 45 copies contain the 7" Vocal Version. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 August 2006 at 10:36pm
Based on this post by Jim, I'd say both sides are identical. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 4:22am
| Interesting, because I never heard the 7" Vocal on the radio in Seattle. It was either the LP or LP edit. For some reason I was under the impression that the 7" Vocal had not been issued on a promo in the US. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 11:15am
| Brian: We also got in the listed (4:58) on both sides DJ 45 for it. But the 7" vocal DJ 45 I referred to earlier WAS received by the station as well, and is currently a part of my collection. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 1:27am
|
I'm just comparing the 7" Vocal with the Long Vocal Remix. As stated above, the intro of the 7" Vocal cannot be extracted from the Long Vocal Remix. This is the section from (0:00) to about (0:31), almost to where Janet starts singing the first verse.
There is one other section that cannot be extracted from the longer mix, too. It's from (2:49) to (3:10). There's a different chorus (just before the breakdown) that's nowhere to be found in the long version. |
Posted By: Underground Dub
Date Posted: 12 April 2007 at 11:02am
| I just wanted to add that the extended mix of "What Have You Done For Me Lately ends with an acapella echo, so replacing the end of the non-US Design Of A Decade edit with the end of the extended mix creates (to my ears) the correct 7" mix. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 April 2007 at 11:29am
|
I've tried using the ending from the extended mix of "Lately," and they aren't quite the same. On the 45, there is an exhale breath over the last drum beat and keyboard note. On the extended mix, this breath is missing. Also, the echo on the 45 is smoother sounding. The echo on the extended mix sounds kind of choppy, like the beginning of the word "lately" is slightly cut off.
So, you can't exactly get the 45 version by pasting that section on. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 23 April 2007 at 3:55pm
What's wrong with the non-US "Design of a Decade" version of "What Have You Done For Me Lately"? Is it not the correct 45 version? The breath over the last drumbeat is cerainly there. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 April 2007 at 11:37pm
| The version on that CD has the same ending as the LP version, so it must have been someone's attempt to recreate the 45 version (but you cannot edit the LP to make the 45). While the LP ending does have the breath, it also has a keyboard that echoes with the vocal. The 45 ending only has an echo on the vocal. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 10 December 2007 at 7:06pm
|
Posted By: Underground Dub
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 10:41pm
BRI-AN! BRI-AN! BRI-AN!... :D |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 15 April 2009 at 10:41am
|
Unbelievable, but I found the 7" Vocal of "Pleasure Principle" on CD! It was issued in 1987 on a Holland-only CD compilation called "The Hit Academy." I just got it online from a used CD shop in Germany for about ten bucks. Strangely, the artwork lists the running time of the track as 4:58, which is the time for the album version. But, nope, it's the 7" Vocal remix.
I'll send out more information on it via private email later tonight. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 15 April 2009 at 7:30pm
|
Jim:
Which version of "Pleasure Principle" did your station play? |
Posted By: Underground Dub
Date Posted: 19 April 2009 at 11:36pm
| Thank you so much for this! :O |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 11:02am
|
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 27 September 2010 at 8:14pm
|
i can confirm that the commercial cassingle of janet jackson song "the pleasure principle" issued as a&m 2927 contains the 7" vocal version which runs 4:20 and is different than what is contained on the commercial 45 also issued as a&m 2927, which contains the cd/lp version from the cd "control".... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 6:17am
| Ed what is the cassette single running time? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 28 September 2010 at 11:54am
|
cassingle runs 4:20 ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 23 August 2013 at 2:51pm
| Does anyone have a dj cd single of "Pleasure Principle" that can report on the contents? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 23 August 2013 at 8:30pm
|
Although A&M was among the very first labels (along with RCA) to start
issuing a small smattering of promo CD singles, circa 1986/1987, none of Janet Jackson's single releases during those years were ever included among them. The first promo CD single we ever got into the station for her was the late 1989 release, "Miss You Much." |
Posted By: jebsib
Date Posted: 18 January 2018 at 6:23am
|
Is the 7" vocal the version that starts with Janet saying "I promise I'll be worth
the wait"? (This I gather was audio pulled from the tail-end of her previous single "Let's Wait Awhile"…) Is this the version that received the lion's share of airplay on CHR? Or the Video version? LP version? As this was the least played (and fastest rise and fall of all the Control singles), I think I missed hearing it on the radio that summer. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 January 2018 at 6:58am
Yes.
I personally never heard anything but the LP version on the radio in the Seattle area, but I can't speak for the whole country. |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 10 February 2018 at 2:33pm
|
I only remember the LP version in my area, both on
Toronto and Buffalo stations. I don't think I even heard the vocal version until I found a promo 45 about 10 years ago. |
Posted By: Ron S
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 12:03pm
Are you talking about the the US release of it or the UK that doesn't have the buzzing on Miss You Much? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 15 March 2025 at 5:44am
|
Commercial 12" vinyl single copies of Janet Jackson's "The Pleasure Principle" contain the "Long Vocal" version and have an actual and printed run time of 7:23. Thankfully, the 12" single version has been issued on one domestic CD release to date, so the associated database comment should be updated to read: (12" single version - "Long Vocal").
Regarding the prior discussion as to which version of "The Pleasure Principle" garnered the most airplay, I was living in the Dayton, Ohio, area at the time, and I recall only hearing the LP version on the Top 40 radio station that I listened to. |