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Tim Brown
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Posted: 17 May 2012 at 7:42pm | IP Logged Quote Tim Brown



Saw this comment on another ELO song thread in regards to
Evil Woman......
"Fortunately, the 45 is pretty easy to make from the LP."
Was wondering if anyone knew just what gets edited.
(Besides the opening vocals.)
It's kind of hard to know if the comments that followed
were talking about Evil Woman or Can't Get It Out of My
Head.   
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sriv94
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Posted: 18 May 2012 at 7:58am | IP Logged Quote sriv94

There are two other edits besides the opening--one in the instrumental break and one in the last verse. It also needs to be sped up slightly.

The "Have A Nice Decade" box set version is real close. It nails the instrumental break edit, but screwed up the edit in the last verse (the line "I came runnin' every time you cried" is there and should not be there, but it is easily removable) and it's at the LP speed.

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Tim Brown
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Posted: 18 May 2012 at 6:47pm | IP Logged Quote Tim Brown

Thanks, Doug.
I was able to find the 45 on You Tube.
I never realized that besides deleting the vocal open,
there is also an edit in the intro. Plus, there's a phrase
that gets chopped at the :30ish mark. That's as far as
I've gotten.   When you compare both versions on Adobe
Cool Edit, it makes it a little easier to see what needs to
be edited.
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sriv94
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Posted: 18 May 2012 at 8:19pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94

You're right, I did miss one edit.

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Steve Carras
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Posted: 09 February 2013 at 1:13pm | IP Logged Quote Steve Carras

Why, I'm amaZZed at the understatements of what was done on the hit single:
1."You Made a Fool of me/But now that broken dream's gotta end" was edited at the beginning before the actual instrumental introduciton.
2. AND 3.Snippets of the instrumental edited out.
4."There's a hole in my head where the rain comes iin/You Took my Head and you Played to Win" gone
5.Instrumental breal edited.
6."Came a-runnin' every time you cried" gone, baby, gone.
7.Fade shorter
8.Song edited.

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 09 February 2013 at 10:48pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man

Steve Carras wrote:

6."Came a-runnin' every time you cried" gone, baby, gone.

Hmmm...I downloaded a 45 edit with this line intact. I
don't have the actual 45, so I wonder what is correct.

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sriv94
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Posted: 11 February 2013 at 6:00am | IP Logged Quote sriv94

That's the "Have A Nice Decade" version--it kept that line and it should have been removed. Take out that line and speed the file up slightly and that's your 45.

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Ron S
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Posted: 07 February 2019 at 10:35am | IP Logged Quote Ron S

Anyone have the edit point for the first part after cutting off the intro?
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 12 February 2019 at 12:31am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

With all those edits and what might appear to be a hatchet job to ELO fans, when I always heard this song on top 40 radio growing up, I only knew the edit!
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 12 February 2019 at 5:33am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

EdisonLite wrote:
With all those edits and what might
appear to be a hatchet job to ELO fans, when I always
heard this song on top 40 radio growing up, I only knew
the edit!


Same here!
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Steve Carras
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Posted: 14 February 2019 at 10:26pm | IP Logged Quote Steve Carras

EdisonLite wrote:
With all those edits and what might
appear to be a hatchet job to ELO fans, when I always
heard this song on top 40 radio growing up, I only knew
the edit!


Very good point! BTW Happy Valentine's day to everyone..

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eriejwg
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Posted: 15 February 2019 at 7:59am | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

I've been a fan or promo edits and 45 versions/mixes since
I can remember. Thanks to an another link I found online
which listed differences in a long list of songs
contributed by the late James Abbott, I found THIS site.
Long live the edits!

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NightAire
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Posted: 20 October 2021 at 12:27pm | IP Logged Quote NightAire

I'm a little surprised CFTP hasn't posted the definitive list of versions and the edit points on this one as I'm sure he's done the research. I'm working from a YouTube video of someone playing the 45 and so I'm missing two bits of information: the speed increase and the fade length. However, I can share the exact edit points.

I'm working with the 24 bit / 192 kHz remaster of the Face The Music LP (which is disappointingly clipped! Why go for the crazy bit rates and sample rates and then crush the peaks!! I digress...).

The main thing you need to know about this version is that it STARTS with the instrumental that in early CDs was on the END of the previous song... so if you're working with an older CD, you'll want to subtract 16 seconds from my edit points.

Each new edit point is the time on the file AFTER the previously listed edit. I think I've confused some people in the past with that.

REMOVE:

1) 0:00 - 0:28 (Song starts with piano)

2) 0:14 - 0:18 (intro to lyrics is now just under 15 sec)

3) 0:29 - 0:37 (removes "there's a hole... ...played to win")

4) 1:54 - 2:14 (shortens instrumental & "Hey"s section)

5) 2:32 - 2:36 (removes "I came a runnin' every time you cried")

--

Again, the single is sped up but I can't determine by how much, and it fades early but I can't tell from what point and by how much. Somebody with the actual 45 will have to provide those pieces of the puzzle.

I hope this helps somebody!

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 20 October 2021 at 9:28pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I'll say right up front: Jeff Lynne was a production genius in the '70s, but his songs were not sonic masterpieces. A lot of his songs will never sound "good", in the Steely Dan-type/show-off-your-stereo definition of "good".

LP version (4:18)

The oldest CD I have with "Evil Woman" is probably Jet's ELO's Greatest Hits (copyright 1979, released on CD in 1986). The EQ is way too bass-heavy, it fades a few seconds more quickly than all the other CDs out there, and it's likely from a higher-generation source tape than others. Avoid.

Discogs says that Jet's US pressing of Face The Music (copyright 1975) was released on CD in 1987. (Just for reference, the fade on this disc extends about 16 beats longer than on GH. The last thing we hear on this disc is the female backup singer singing "evil woman".)

I think the same source tape as Face The Music is used on Sandstone's Reelin' In The Years Vol. 1 (1991), which extends to the same length and sounds very similar to Face The Music. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • DCC's Rock Of The 70's Vol. 1 (1992)
  • Mystic Music Presents Bell Bottom Rock (1996) - shortens fade by about 8 beats
There's a new analog transfer on Telstar UK's Very Best Of (1989), which sounds muddy and all kinds of horrible. Avoid.

There's a new analog transfer on the box set Afterglow (1990), which may possibly use the same source tape as Face The Music, but with a MUCH brighter EQ, and somehow too much "air" for the song. I'm not sure that's a good thing for this song. To draw an analogy, if the overall presence sounds restrained on Face The Music, it sounds positively unhinged on Afterglow. Was there some noise reduction setting that was off on Afterglow? On this disc, the tail of the fade is truncated. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Razor & Tie's 2-CD Those Rocking '70s (1991) - hastens fade slightly so doesn't just truncate
  • Sony's 35 Years Of Rock And Roll (1992) - hastens fade slightly so doesn't just truncate
There's a new analog transfer on the 2-CD Strange Magic The Best Of (1995). Here, it extends out to the full length on Face The Music. Over the years, Strange Magic has been my favorite ELO collection, with a nice EQ (or as nice as EQ is going to get for ELO tracks), seemingly low-generation source tapes, and no artifacts from noise reduction.

There's a new analog transfer on Epic/Legacy's Essential (2003). It sounds good, but not as good to my ears as Strange Magic. The fade is also a little shorter than Strange Magic. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Time-Life's Legends For Your Love (2004)
  • Time-Life's 2-CD Classic Soft Rock Vol. 9 Cool Night (2007)
I have one last new analog transfer on All Over The World The Very Best Of (2005), which has a smiley-face EQ and shortens the tail of the fade.

At the end of my analysis, I ended up going with Jet's 1987 CD of Face The Music, which probably uses low-generation source tapes and likely has the least amount of processing on it. The 1995 Strange Magic best-of is a close second, and I heartily recommend it if you like ELO.

45 version (3:14)

Not found on CD.

If you absolutely must edit this from scratch, use Strange Magic as the source of the LP version and follow these steps:

Delete 0:00 to 0:12.0 of the LP version.

Segment 1
Starts on the first piano note.
Ends on a downbeat, exactly 8 beats after the crash cymbal.
Extends from 0:12.0 to 0:26.2 of LP version.
Extends from 0:00.0 to 0:14.2 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 8 beats from 0:26.2 to 0:30.2 of the LP version.

Segment 2
Starts on a downbeat, on a crash cymbal before the first word "Hey".
30 beats long
Ends two beats before a true downbeat.
Extends from 0:30.2 to 0:45.2 of the LP version.
Extends from 0:14.2 to 0:29.2 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 16 beats from 0:45.2 to 0:53.2 of the LP version.

Segment 3
Starts two beats before a true downbeat (vocals start on the true downbeat, 2 beats into this segment).
Ends on a downbeat in the instrumental section, 16 beats after the crash cymbal that starts the instrumental section.
Extends from 0:53.2 to 2:18.2 of the LP version.
Extends from 0:29.2 to 1:54.3 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 40 beats from 2:18.2 to 2:38.3 of the LP version.

Segment 4
Starts four beats before part where drums drop out.
Ends on a downbeat, three beats after the snare on the word "cup".
Extends from 2:38.3 to 3:16.2 of the LP version.
Extends from 1:54.3 to 2:32.2 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Delete the 8 beats from 3:16.2 to to 3:20.1 of the LP version.

Segment 5
Begins on a downbeat.
Ends after the female singer sings "evil" and before she sings "woman". (Confirmed by a nice YouTube dub of the 45.)
Extends from 3:16.2 to 4:01.6 of the LP version.
Extends from 2:32.2 to 3:13.6 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Fade
Extends from about 3:50 to 4:01.6 of the LP version.
Extends from about 3:02 to 3:13.6 of the 45 edit (before any speed correction).

Your mixdown (before any speed correction) will run 3:13.6, with edits at 0:14.2, 0:29.2, 1:54.3, and 2:32.2, and a fade from 3:02 to 3:13.6.

I found that the 45 runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 0:00 to about 1:28, then runs at the LP speed from about 1:28 to about 2:08, then runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 2:08 to the end of the 45.

I don't know what to make of that exactly, but it tells me that you shouldn't adjust the speed of the LP version to make the 45. Just leave it at the LP speed, unless you really want to make yourself queasy.

If you want a shortcut (and I didn't check the edits rigorously, but I assume that others did), here's what I would to do reproduce the 45:

Start with the version on Rhino's Have A Nice Decade Disc 6 (1998). Delete the 8 beats, downbeat to downbeat, from 2:32.4 to 2:36.4. That's it. Stop there. That will get you close enough for all practical purposes.

Have fun!

Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 October 2021 at 9:31pm


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VWestlife
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Posted: 22 October 2021 at 11:45pm | IP Logged Quote VWestlife

crapfromthepast wrote:
I found that the 45 runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 0:00 to about 1:28, then runs at the LP speed from about 1:28 to about 2:08, then runs 0.43% slower than the LP speed from 2:08 to the end of the 45.

To me it sounds like the LP version has pretty bad tape drag in the middle, especially during the piano solo where you can hear it start to go out of tune, and this may have been their attempt to compensate for that. I think later transfers/remasterings of the LP version have tried to correct the speed deviation as well.
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 23 October 2021 at 10:03pm | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

<If you want a shortcut (and I didn't check the edits rigorously, but I assume that others did), here's what I would to do reproduce the 45:
Start with the version on Rhino's Have A Nice Decade Disc 6 (1998). Delete the 8 beats, downbeat to downbeat, from 2:32.4 to 2:36.4. That's it. Stop there. That will get you close enough for all practical purposes.>

That's how I made the edit. Does anyone know if this would be the correct single version (with the exception of accidental pitch changes, which I wouldn't want in my version anyway? :)

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