Amy Grant - "Baby Baby"

aaronk wrote: That's why in this case I think it's probably best to stick with what the database (and book) has shown since the beginning: no designation in cases where the "official single version" (aka "45 version") is the same as the LP version.

Aaron, I agree wholeheartedly here. Thanks!

In Australia, the "hit version" was this edit of the No Getting Over You remix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxG8GAdIlCE

I heard this edit (with a short instrumental intro) on Mix 106.3 a few years
ago, and it appears to have been used on the commercial 45/MC/CD
releases here.

I think it'll do for now, Aaron. It's just unfortunate how the early '90s, in particular, are such a headache for collecting Top 40 music due to how many hits were released on as many as six(!) commercial single formats (vinyl 45, cassette single, maxi-cassette single, CD single, maxi-CD single, and 12" single), in addition to an album release, and record labels were clearly unconcerned with any sense of version uniformity. Contrast that to how just a few years previously, up until 1987, singles were all released on just one format, the vinyl 45 (or two at the most if there was a 12" single counterpart). But, hey, it is what it is, and we'll get it all figured out. Fortunately, things have come back around full circle, and if there's one thing to be thankful about Top 40 music in more modern times, it's the fact that most songs are now only made available in one "definitive" version due to the sharp decline in album releases, radio edits, and remixes in general!

Anyway, I'm going to hold off on further commenting on messy cases like "Baby Baby" until we have the new database design in place. Once I see the new platform in action, then I may have different thoughts and opinions on how we could possibly address these multi-format-multi-version releases going forward.

mjb50 wrote: In software and database design, inflexibility and overengineering can easily overtake you. You can get bogged down thinking of edge cases and trying to solve evermore obscure problems. There are diminishing returns; don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! There's wisdom in just enabling a degree of ad-hoc-ness, e.g. having an unstructured free-text field for "wild" data (such as prose explanations) which doesn't fit in the usual boxes. The result may not be ideal, consistent, or pretty, but it will at least be useful, if not incrementally improving with time. In other words, don't sweat the messiness, as long as it's the exception rather than the rule.

Yes, I largely agree with this. The data will never be 100% clutter-free, but I would like us to be as consistent as possible, so that it's not confusing going from one entry to the next.

That's why in this case I think it's probably best to stick with what the database (and book) has shown since the beginning: no designation in cases where the "official single version" (aka "45 version") is the same as the LP version. That means "Baby, Baby" really does not need a designator for a majority of the entries. Instead, I've summarized the versions a little more concisely in the title note, so hopefully, we can put this one to rest for the time being.

aaronk wrote: All I can say is that I am very anxious for the new "table" to be implemented to help summarize things better than the title notes currently do.

Me, too! Once I can actually see this "table" format in action, it's very possible that I might end up modifying my current opinions and preferences on how to best summarize the notes.

aaronk wrote: Todd Ireland wrote: As for how best to classify the comments for individual database CDs, I would suggest the following as examples (please bear in mind that the two CD releases listed below each contain multiple versions of "Baby Baby" on them): (S)      (3:55)    A&M/UTV Records B0003415 and B0002106 Greatest Hits 1986-2004 (LP version, cassette single, and vinyl 45 version) (S)      (3:49)    A&M/UTV Records B0003415 and B0002106 Greatest Hits 1986-2004 (CD single version - "7-Inch Heart In Motion Mix") (S)      (3:49)    Amy Grant Productions 0006890360 Heart In Motion 30th Anniversary (CD single version - 7" Heart In Motion Mix") [This comment needs to be updated in the database, by the way, because it currently incorrectly states "45 version".] (S)      (6:01)    Amy Grant Productions 0006890360 Heart In Motion 30th Anniversary (12" single version - "12-Inch Heart In Motion Mix") (S)      (4:00)    Amy Grant Productions 0006890360 Heart In Motion 30th Anniversary ("7-Inch No Getting Over You Mix") While it's certainly very descriptive, it's also a giant mess to look at. :( I'm not against it, pe se, but is this a special case, or does this mean there are hundreds more entries that would have to be updated in a similar way?

I can't estimate how many entries would need to be updated in a similar way, but there are certainly database comments that are considerably more detailed and complicated than for "Baby Baby". For example, The Chambers Brothers' "Time Has Come Today" has the following comment next to the The Time Has Come CD on Columbia/Legacy 63984 and Sony BMG Music Entertainment Custom Marketing Group 723832:

(remastered edition; this is the original 45 version but not the hit 45 version; followed by a :60 radio commercial for ”The Time Has Come” vinyl LP)

*****

Another example is 5th Dimension's "Never My Love", which contains the following comment next to the Greatest Hits on Earth CD on Arista 8335:

(tracks into next selection; slight edit of both the 45 and LP version because of the length of the audience applause used)

*****

Yet another is The Buckinghams' "Hey Baby (They're Playing Our Song)" with the following comment next to most of the song's CD entries:

(:04 of studio talk prior to the beginning of the song; slightly longer fade than the single; slight remix)

*****

Meanwhile, we can't forget about database CDs with comments like: (edit of the LP version in an unsuccessful attempt at recreating the 45 version) and so forth.

So, unfortunately, I don't think there's a whole lot we can do to fix the messiness with some CD entries. :-(

Edited by Todd Ireland