https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sat, 02 May 2026 07:11:00 +0000 Tue, 29 Jul 2014 22:34:10 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=8159 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41926&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41926 Author: davidclark
Subject: 8159
Posted: 29 July 2014 at 10:34pm

actually, the LP is shorter than the 45 for "Hey Jude". In my personal
collection, I use "LP fade" to indicate this (and I use "45 fade" for the more
frequent times that a 45 fades earlier than the LP).

Yep, life is good (but hot!) here in Thailand - I would be at a loss without
Pat's board and my connection to "all you guys" to help me solve the many
mysteries surrounding our hobby!]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2014 22:34:10 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41926&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41926 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41925&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41925 Author: jimct
Subject: 8159
Posted: 29 July 2014 at 10:00pm

And thanks for letting me know, David, that the version of "Hey Jude" on the
1970 LP is longer than it was on the 1968 45 - I'd overlooked that detail.
Glad I still have that old Apple LP around here somewhere. Hope life is going
well for you over in Thailand, and it's great that you're still able to stay in
touch, via Pat's board.

Edited by jimct]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2014 22:00:06 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41925&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41925 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41924&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41924 Author: davidclark
Subject: 8159
Posted: 29 July 2014 at 9:42pm

well, you are correct, Jim. In my quest to determine *when* the stereo
rerecording of Peter Gunn first appeared (and you answered that for me
with your further info on "Like Wild" - thanks!), I got boggled down in
"parent LP nomenclature".

Forgetting the use of the word "parent LP", with your example of "Hey
Jude", Pat does indeed state "LP length" for it, thereby considering that
"Hey Jude" does have an “LP (length in this case)”, even though the LP
appeared over a year later (interesting, if the database was “live” in 1968,
then “Hey Jude” would have no designation. Pat would have to update the
database in 1970!). That's really what I meant in my post - that Pat did
this all the time, assigning "LP version or length" to a song even though
the song appeared on an LP later in a different form. I was not specifically
referring to a "rerecording" when I wrote that, even though in the case of
Peter Gunn, it is indeed a rerecording and therefore it can not be put in
the same "boat" as "Hey Jude". That was my mistake.

So you are correct in that Pat does not “assign” an LP to a song when it is
a rerecording. I agree 100% with this as well.

thanks again for helping to clear up my confused state of mind!]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:42:54 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41924&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41924 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41920&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41920 Author: jimct
Subject: 8159
Posted: 29 July 2014 at 11:09am

David, if the LPs released by an artist both before and after his newest hit
song didn't include that hit song on it, how can there even *be* a "parent
LP" for it? No album appearance for the song existed, during its current
chart run.

I can certainly see where a 5th-6th-7th single from a smash LP, like Cyndi
Lauper's "She's So Unusual", or Michael Jackson's "Thriller" may have
become a hit more than a year after an album was first released, and still
be a legit "parent LP" for Pat's db purposes. But I don't compare songs like
that to the "Peter Gunn" situation at all.

I disagree with your statement above, "I believe there are many 'LP version'
comments beside songs where the LP came out a year later." David, can
you please provide us with some examples of this? I can't think of any
offhand, but I could be mistaken.

I recall The Beatles "Hey Jude" LP came out in 1970. This was the title
track's first appearance ever on an album. Does that one fact alone make
it the song's "parent LP", even though "Hey Jude" had hit #1 back in late
1968? I think not, as Mr. Whitburn's LP book notes this album to be a
"hits" comp. But I suppose a more liberal interpretation of the phrase
"parent LP" can include just about anything you want it to.

Ray Anthony's "Like Wild" album was a mid-1960 LP of all new recordings.
I think Capitol label execs were very smart to make a new, stereo
recording of "Peter Gunn" at that time. He was already very well known for
it. Adding it in certainly wouldn't hurt "Like Wild's" sales figures. It was
also a convenient time for all parties to do so - Ray Anthony was still
signed to Capitol, his orchestra was still active and intact, and it was only
just over a year since it had peaked in the Top 10. And - Anthony hadn't
hadn't another hit single since "Peter Gunn". So why not remind the public
of his big hit song again?

During this timeframe, there were numerous artists who were going back
and making early 1960s stereo re-recordings of their earlier hits, done in
mono only. Some hits had appeared on earlier LPs; some hadn't. Nat
"King" Cole, the Everly Brothers and Adam Wade, just to name three. All of
my experiences of such recordings inside Pat's db denote "re-recording".

My personal criteria is that if an artist goes into the studio to record a new
version of a song that they've already had a big hit with, then that
recording *cannot* be considered the hit song's "parent LP,"; it must be
considered a later re-recording. Whether or not this later re-recording
takes place 3 months, a year, or 20 years after they first had the chart hit.

But your mileage may vary!     :)

Edited by jimct]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:09:33 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41920&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41920 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41918&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41918 Author: davidclark
Subject: 8159
Posted: 29 July 2014 at 1:50am

thanks for the detailed info, Jim. I did know most of it already, but not
the bit about the releasing of the "Like Wild" LP in 1960 rather than in
1959.

So, can anyone confirm just what version appeared on each of the stereo
and mono "Like Wild" LPs? Was it the mono original or the stereo remake
(in stereo or mono or re-channeled)?

If I understand's Pat's database nomenclature correct, if the mono "Like
Wild" LP contains the original mono version, and the stereo LP contains
the "remake", then, wouldn't we label the stereo version "stereo LP
version" and the mono version "45 and mono LP version"? Or, is one year
later "too late" for it to be considered a parent LP? I believe there are
many "LP version" comments beside songs where the LP came out a year
later.

Whereas if the remake was recorded "several years later", and did not
appear on the "Like Wild" LP, then yes, "re-recorded", would indeed apply.]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2014 01:50:26 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41918&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41918 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41914&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41914 Author: jimct
Subject: 8159
Posted: 28 July 2014 at 2:12pm

David, although some internet sources & reference books do state 1959
as the release year for Ray Anthony's "Like Wild" LP (Capitol 1304), that
information is incorrect. It was actually released more than a year after the
hit single peaked, around May of 1960. (To confirm this, Capitol's hit
movie soundtrack from the Frank Sinatra movie "Can Can", which was
likely released before "Like Wild" was, as Capitol 1301, debuted on the LP
charts on 5-2-60.) My guess is that the people who assigned "Like Wild" a
1959 release year carelessly assumed that it had to have been issued at
around the same time his "Peter Gunn" hit single was charting.    

The Ray Anthony "Peter Gunn" 45 (Capitol 4041) debuted in 1-59, peaked
the first week of 3-59, and was, at that time, a 45-only release. Anthony
was "between albums", as his "Ray Anthony Plays Steve Allen" LP (Capitol
1066) had come out around 6-58, and his "Sound Spectacular" LP
(Capitol 1200) wouldn't come out until around 6-59. Both of these albums
were issued in mono only, and neither one of them included "Peter Gunn".

David, this might seem very unusual, looking back now, but its
songwriter, Henry Mancini, was the one who was cashing in on "Peter
Gunn" massive LP sales in early 1959, not Ray Anthony. In fact, this album
launched Mancini's long, successful career. His "The Music From Peter
Gunn" album spent 10 weeks at #1, stayed on the LP chart for over 2
years, and even won Mancini the Grammy for "Album Of The Year".
Mancini quickly followed up, in mid-59, up with "More Music From Peter
Gunn", which also became a Top 10 album. Why so huge? Because the
series' many TV viewers were hearing countless snippets of Mancini's
written-for-the-show music on each new weekly episode, branding it as
"authentic" to them, despite Mancini losing out on the hit radio single to
Anthony.       

RCA did try for the hit "Peter Gunn Theme" single, releasing Mancini's
original version as a 45 in early 1959 (RCA 7460). But, as I stated earlier,
Mancini was a total unknown back then. Despite his two huge hit LPs,
Mancini still had to wait over another full year before getting his first
chart single, "Mr. Lucky", in 4-60, whereas Ray Anthony was already a
long established, successful artist by 1959.

1959/1960 was also right around the time when labels were starting to
more commonly issue LPs in both mono and stereo, instead of in mono
only. Since it was recorded back in the fall of 1958, I'm 99.9999% positive
that the mono, hit 45 version of Ray Anthony's "Peter Gunn" was not
initially recorded in stereo. Because, 1) It was intended for 45-only
release, and 2) Much more significantly, Ray Anthony's first Capitol LP to
be issued in both mono and stereo, "More Dream Dancing" (Capitol 1252,
the LP just before "Like Wild", wasn't released until around November of
1959. Until this LP, my opinion is that Capitol recorded all of Ray
Anthony's previous output in mono only. That's why Pat's "re-recorded"
comment has always made perfect sense to me. Hope this helps you,
David.

Edited by jimct]]> Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:12:38 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41914&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41914 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41912&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41912 Author: davidclark
Subject: 8159
Posted: 28 July 2014 at 3:14am

The database indicates "rerecording" for the stereo version. The LP "Like
Wild!" was issued in 1959 (so it would be the parent LP for the 45). Does
anyone have that LP in either mono or stereo to determine which version
appeared on both? Also, the stereo LP may have been released a few years
later than the mono.

iTunes presently offers the "Like Wild" LP, and the sample plays the stereo
version.

I am trying to determine just when the stereo version was recorded and when
it first appeared.]]> Mon, 28 Jul 2014 03:14:46 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8159&PID=41912&title=ray-anthony-peter-gunn#41912