https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Thu, 23 Apr 2026 16:48:01 +0000 Thu, 08 May 2008 16:19:50 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=490 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=16042&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#16042 Author: edtop40
Subject: 490
Posted: 08 May 2008 at 4:19pm

my commercial 45 issued as arista 0655 states on the label a run time of 3:46 but actually runs 3:55

]]> Thu, 08 May 2008 16:19:50 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=16042&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#16042 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14317&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14317 Author: eriejwg
Subject: 490
Posted: 02 February 2008 at 4:05pm

Fascinating story, Mark!

The thing that aggravates me the most is finding the age old 'New stereo recordings by one or more of the original artists." K-Tel digitally is becoming well known for this, as has labels like Dominion etc.

GRRR!]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:05:00 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14317&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14317 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14316&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14316 Author: RichM921
Subject: 490
Posted: 02 February 2008 at 3:21pm

crapfromthepast wrote: By the way, I found the true 45 version on The "A" List Disc 13, and I'd be willing to guess that it also appears on a TM Century disc as well.

Sure does. I have GoldDisc 437 which has the single version on cut #2 and the album version on cut #22. The single version also runs 3:55 on this disc.]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:21:40 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14316&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14316 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14315&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14315 Author: MMathews
Subject: 490
Posted: 02 February 2008 at 2:18pm

Todd Ireland wrote: Question for EdisonLite: In your experience, how good are record labels at marking their master tapes in such a way that indicates which specific versions of songs are on the tapes?

Hi All,

I've chatted with quite a few of the guys who've had vault access and with some fine folks who've worked for small reissue labels.
Answer to Todd's question above is: In general, not very good at all.
   Pretty much anything goes when someone actually enters these vaults and goes thru the tapes that are there. Sure sometimes things are clearly labeled and accurate. Often things are wrong, incomplete or not labeled at ALL. Also, sometimes what you are looking for is not in a "vault" at all. It might be in some producers basement. There are a million stories of tape mis-treatment, loss or carelessness.
Now, licensing has 2 phases, obtaining permission to issue a track and then "mechanical licensing" and that's the fee you pay for the label (or owner) to actually provide you with a copy of the track. Otherwise, you are on your own for finding a copy to reproduce, and that might be from a record. K-tel was a famous example of using records for their sources, as well as many others.
In recent decades, for major labels the copy that you are provided is whatever was dubbed for use in their "special products" division. They don't go vault diving every time - unless you pay $$ for someone to do that for you, and you best have a catalog or master# that they are to pull for you. Searching is time consuming and costly.
As for tape sources, the days of them dubbing off an actual tape for a licensee are long long ago. A digital a copy is quickly dubbed to a digital format (like DAT in early 90's and CDR in recent years) and you get that in the mail. You can request a version, but you may not get what you ask for. If they don't have you want handy, you may have to search other sources like vinyl and existing CD's and take from there. Even labels like Varese have to do this.
Larger labels like Rhino had more money to spend producing comps and therefore spend more to produce...so their mastering engineer can request a carefully dubbed tape from a specific master. (and even THEN they don't always get what they want.)
And! All of this gets even more complex when you speak of multi-label or things that were sub-licensed from other labels in other countries, then issued by a larger label here, and then distributed by a major. Well, chances are your single master is buried in that major's vault, but undisturbed because they no longer have anything to do with the licensing.
Well i ramble on, but i've sat glued with interest when some industry ol'-timers have shared story after story on this very subject. Fascinating stuff, and I assure you, it's NEVER as simple as i once thought it was.

Happy listening.
Mark M

]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:18:51 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14315&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14315 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14301&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14301 Author: crapfromthepast
Subject: 490
Posted: 01 February 2008 at 9:42am

Just reviewing my Air Supply stuff, so I thought I'd revive this old thread.

The true 45 (Arista AS 0655, printed 3:46) actually runs 3:55, and cannot truly be recreated from the LP version due to the extra stuff present on the LP version's intro, which you all know.

If you overlook the discrepancy on the intro, here are instructions for creating the rest of the edits (timing based on Time-Life's Body Talk - From The Heart, 1997):

Remove 0:00.0-0:51.3 of the LP version.
Keep 0:51.3-3:45.5 of the LP version (keeping in mind that the the first 8 seconds of the 45 don't quite match the mix of the LP version).
Edit on the downbeat, keeping the first 8 beats of the guitar solo.
Remove the 16 beats from 3:45.5-4:00.1.
Keep the 8 beats from 4:00.1-4:07.5.
Edit on downbeat.
Remove the 16 beats from 4:07.5-4:22.1.
Keep 4:22.1-5:21 (end) of the LP version.

Your mixdown excluding outro silence runs about 3:57, with outro silence runs about 4:01, with edits at 2:54.3 and 3:01.8.

By the way, I found the true 45 version on The "A" List Disc 13, and I'd be willing to guess that it also appears on a TM Century disc as well.]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:42:03 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=14301&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#14301 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2561&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2561 Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 490
Posted: 04 November 2005 at 12:23am

I have no idea as I have never been involved on that end of it (or been in the vaults to actually see the tapes and their labels.) That would be a good question to ask someone like Bill Inglot who collects tapes for many of the Rhino, Varese Sarabande and other labels' reissues (including many CDs I worked on.) ]]> Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:23:46 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2561&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2561 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2559&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2559 Author: Todd Ireland
Subject: 490
Posted: 03 November 2005 at 11:33pm

My main man Edtop40 was charitable enough to e-mail me both an mp3 of his "Sweet Dreams" commercial 45 copy and an mp3 of the song as it appears on the Madacy CD Love In The 80s, Volume 1. After doing some direct comparisons, here's what I've concluded:

The Love in the 80s, Volume 1 and the Air Supply Making Love... The Very Best of import CD both contain the correct 45 edit of "Sweet Dreams". Meanwhile, as Doug suspected, the version on the Pure Pop Collection disc is indeed incorrectly edited at the 2:55 mark and therefore is not the true 45 version as the database currently shows. Please take note.

Question for EdisonLite:

In your experience, how good are record labels at marking their master tapes in such a way that indicates which specific versions of songs are on the tapes?

Edited by Todd Ireland]]> Thu, 03 Nov 2005 23:33:53 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2559&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2559 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2552&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2552 Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 490
Posted: 03 November 2005 at 10:37am

Well, I've never been in a record company vault to know for sure, but I'd say that happens a lot, where a record company just pulls the song from a CD that's already out. I know of one case where the Owner (located in the UK) sent the reissue label a mono copy of the song, and due to how close the deadline was, someone knew of a CD stereo version which was available only on an import CD, and that's where the version came from. This, of course, is a bit of a different case because the label wanted the song in stereo and didn't expect the owner to send a mono copy. But at any rate, I believe labels do take from other CDs a lot.]]> Thu, 03 Nov 2005 10:37:18 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2552&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2552 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2546&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2546 Author: aaronk
Subject: 490
Posted: 03 November 2005 at 3:20am

Good info, EdisonLite. I was also told by someone who masters CDs (the guy who mastered the project I worked on) that the source of the song does not HAVE to come from the master tape in the vaults. For example, if you're licensing the LP version of "Sweet Dreams" for a compilation, you can pull it from the Air Supply cd that has the LP version, instead of going through the trouble of getting the original tape. Is this true?]]> Thu, 03 Nov 2005 03:20:20 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2546&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2546 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2543&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2543 Author: Todd Ireland
Subject: 490
Posted: 02 November 2005 at 10:41pm

Although I don't have a vinyl 45 copy of "Sweet Dreams", I've done an A/B comparison between the version on Sweet Dreams: The Pure Pop Collection (BMG Special Products 44683) and what I believe is the correct 45 version on the Air Supply best-of UK import CD Making Love... The Very Best of (Arista 210 757).

Doug, I think you're definitely onto something here... There indeed appears to be an improper (and poorly spliced) edit on "Sweet Dreams" at the 2:55 mark on the Pure Pop Collection disc. The import CD by comparison has a much smoother edit, which I'm guessing is the same as on your Love In The 80s, Volume 1 disc. I'll do my best to seek out an mp3 copy of the "Sweet Dreams" 45, listen to the edit on it, and determine which CD most closely mirrors the single.

Edited by Todd Ireland]]> Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:41:55 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=490&PID=2543&title=sweet-dreams-air-supply#2543