Top 40 Music on CD Forum : Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : Four years after my last post...

Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:26:17 +0000

Author: crapfromthepast
Subject: 4472
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 5:26pm

Four years after my last post on this song, and I owe a few
of you an apology. Turns out that the version on Sounds
Of The Eighties Vol. 14 1980-1982 does have a
burst of static on the intro, starting at the first snare
hit after the intro and lasting about two beats. The
static sounds a little like a mistuned FM radio, not a
clicky sound.

Somehow, I missed it the first time through...

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : I'll make this even MORE...

Wed, 03 Nov 2010 22:08:17 +0000

Author: NightAire
Subject: 4472
Posted: 03 November 2010 at 10:08pm

I'll make this even MORE complicated; as 995wlol said, this is easy since I'm not having to maintain the database. ;-)

I wish it indicated "45: early fade" or "45: edit" to distinguish when I can just knock off the last X-number of seconds (or minutes) vs where I'm going to have to go in and slice and dice the album version.

...I know, I know, be thankful for what you've got! I am... but this WOULD be nice, at least for me. :)

Carry on,

Edited by NightAire

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : Owner Of A Loneloy Heart can be...

Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:45:02 +0000

Author: Pat Downey
Subject: 4472
Posted: 05 January 2009 at 7:45am

Owner Of A Loneloy Heart can be faded to generate the 45 version. The additional lyrics occur after the 45 would have faded out.

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : Pat, if I understand you correctly,...

Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:17:17 +0000

Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 4472
Posted: 05 January 2009 at 12:17am

Pat, if I understand you correctly, "Owner of a Lonely Heart" cannot be faded to the 45 because there are words on the 45 that are different in the same spot on the LP (and thus, the new designation as "45 version"?)

And we can't edit the LP to be the "45 version" because of these unique words?

Edited by EdisonLite

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : <however, you could argue that...

Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:13:41 +0000

Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 4472
Posted: 05 January 2009 at 12:13am

Aaron and Pat - I'm confused about this. If there are different lyrics on the Yes "Owner" 45 that do not occur on the same spot on the LP, then this would definitely be an issue of "version" and not "length." Is that what happens on the 45? Or do you mean, there's a key change (i.e. a modulation) on the "album length" version AFTER the 45 would be over?

And are you and Pat now saying that if after the 45 is over, the LP simply has repeating choruses it would be labeled as "length" but if there's another verse, i.e. different lyrics, then this qualifies for a "version" (even though the LP can be faded to 45)?

WOW - this is SOOOO confusing.

So ... if the LP can be faded to the 45 (what would normally constitue a "length" designation), it's supposed to be listed as a "version" IF any one of the following conditions happens:

1) what follows on the LP has a key change
2) what follows on the LP is more than 1 minute long
3) what follows on the LP has a new vocalist (i.e. "We Are the World")
4) what follows on the LP has a new verse with different lyrics
BUT - if what follows on the LP is just more choruses, it's a "length"?

And what do we do if what follows on the LP is ad libs (new words) that aren't a new verse and not on any previous choruses - what's that??

WOW, wouldn't it just be a lot easier to state that if you can fade an LP to be the 45, it should just be labeled "45 length"?

Edited by EdisonLite

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : Aaron, thanks for pointing out...

Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:20:40 +0000

Author: Pat Downey
Subject: 4472
Posted: 04 January 2009 at 9:20pm

Aaron, thanks for pointing out the lyric change in the longer version of "Owner Of A Lonely Heart". For that reason, I have changed the designation from LP length to LP version in the database.

Originally as I recall, I used a criteria that would automatically warrant a "version" comment if there was 1 minute of additional music on the LP vs the 45.

In the case of "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" even though there isn't a 1 minute difference of time, there is that additional lyric that warrants a "version" designation.

If you come across any other circumstances similar to "Owner Of A Lonely Heart", point them out to me and I will change the designation.

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : 995wlol wrote:Personally, I...

Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:19:03 +0000

Author: Todd Ireland
Subject: 4472
Posted: 02 January 2009 at 4:19pm

995wlol wrote:

Personally, I would love to see a third designation in addition to "45 version" and "45 length" called something like "45 mix." This would tell me that I can neither fade nor edit the LP version to recreate the "single" version.

Actually, Pat does use "45 mix" and "LP mix" notations in the database on occasion, such as for the Beatles' "Yesterday" and Badfinger's "Baby Blue". These designations can also be tricky because many times the mix differences between a stereo LP and a mono 45, other than the obvious left-right channel panning, may not be easily noticeable to the casual listener. For instance, a mono mix might consist of slightly louder vocals or feature certain instruments a little more prominently compared to its stereo counterpart. As we delve deeper into more '60s Top 40 hits, I'm sure this issue will become front and center (no pun intended!) for many 45 and LP comparisons.

Edited by Todd Ireland

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : I think it's one of those...

Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:57:26 +0000

Author: aaronk
Subject: 4472
Posted: 01 January 2009 at 2:57pm

I think it's one of those things that would be too much work to go back and change at this point. What bothers me is that there is not a rule that can be applied to determine "length" vs "version" for early fades. Not having a rule also makes it very inconsistent. For instance, "Owner Of A Lonely Heart" by Yes gets a "45 length" designation; however, you could argue that there is a key change at the end with different lyrics that are not on the 45 and thus should be a "version."

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : I've probably read nearly...

Thu, 01 Jan 2009 13:36:18 +0000

Author: 995wlol
Subject: 4472
Posted: 01 January 2009 at 1:36pm

I've probably read nearly all of the posts involving the "length" vs "version" argument, but haven't chimed in yet, so here I go. It seems that there are quite a large number of forum members (myself included) that utilize audio editing software to create early fades and edits from LP versions already in their collections. Due to this fact, it seems like the "45 length" designation would be much more useful to those members, regardless whether any lyrics or unique audio occur after the fade, which doesn't seem particularly important when tracking down a version since most people are already familiar with the given version they are searching for. Personally, I would love to see a third designation in addition to "45 version" and "45 length" called something like "45 mix." This would tell me that I can neither fade nor edit the LP version to recreate the "single" version. Of course I know that this is easy for me to throw out there since I'm not the one maintaining the database :-) Just my two cents.

Sounds of the 80s 1980-1982 : EdisonLite wrote:... do you...

Thu, 01 Jan 2009 13:10:54 +0000

Author: aaronk
Subject: 4472
Posted: 01 January 2009 at 1:10pm

EdisonLite wrote:

... do you just randomly choose the designation and not have a specific time used as the dividing line, which is even more random?

We've argued this before, and I'm with you, Gordon. It's very confusing when the database randomly chooses which early fades are considered "versions." There are even instances in the database where a song fades only a matter of seconds earlier, but it still gets a "version" designation, because the full song ends cold.

"We Are The World" is another example of an early fade that is designated as "version," because there are soloists that are not featured earlier in the song. Again, it's very arbitrary, and there are no definite rules as to how the "length" and "version" designators are applied to early fades.