https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Wed, 22 Apr 2026 20:26:50 +0000 Fri, 25 Apr 2014 22:33:30 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.07 360 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=1050 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum//images/Top-40-Music-on-CD-Forum-Logo.png https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/ https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=41222&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#41222 Author: Michaeldila
Subject: 1050
Posted: 25 April 2014 at 10:33pm

hi yah,
yeah pat hooked me up......but i promise...i come in peace :)]]> Fri, 25 Apr 2014 22:33:30 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=41222&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#41222 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=41221&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#41221 Author: Yah Shure
Subject: 1050
Posted: 25 April 2014 at 9:22pm

Hi, Michaeldila. I saw your recent "single edits" question on the Hoffman board, so Pat must've fixed you up with a secret decoder ring. Welcome aboard!

Hmmm... new member... first post happens to be on a thread dealing with aliens.... ;)]]> Fri, 25 Apr 2014 21:22:33 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=41221&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#41221 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=41219&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#41219 Author: Michaeldila
Subject: 1050
Posted: 25 April 2014 at 7:41pm

hi. i thought this was a good place for my very first post! firstly, i remember
reading years ago that richard carpenter did NOT want to edit down "calling
occupants" in the first place. he was forced to. he himself said it was badly
edited for radio. i, however, like the edited single version. but it's not
possible to re-create it using the longer version as there is slight bleed on
the first notes (as everyone here noted). however, i managed to create a
slightly adjusted opening which, while not 100% accurate, sounds very very
pleasing. if anyone would like to hear it, i'd be happy to share. PM me.
thanks!]]> Fri, 25 Apr 2014 19:41:00 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=41219&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#41219 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39272&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39272 Author: Yah Shure
Subject: 1050
Posted: 30 September 2013 at 2:58pm

I'd run across this same CSG fix several years ago on a Steve Hoffman board thread. That thread's example song was the stereo LP version of Cream's "White Room", which was apparently processed with CSG during the mixdown stage. The 90-degree shift trick worked like a charm. It's a handy fix for some of the vinyl Atlantic/Atco CSG stereo tracks which have only appeared in mono on CD.

I also tried it on "Walk A Mile In My Shoes" and other things that have certain elements purposely mixed out of phase (the first Moby Grape album, Michaelangelo's One Voice Many LP) but it doesn't work in such cases.

Brian: visually identifying a stereo 45 that's been CSG processed is a piece of cake. If you place your promo 45 edit and stock copies of "Calling Occupants" side by side, you'll notice a stark difference in the pattern of the grooves. The CSG stereo looks a heck of a lot "busier": the grooves appear to be deeper and you could swear that they're all colliding with their adjacent neighbors. It's as though the side has been cut super hot, with a tremendous amount of channel separation. It really looks like a rough sea. By contrast, the stock grooves are like a tranquil pond on a windless day.

And yet, when you fold both wave forms to mono and compare them side by side, the stock is definitely the louder of the two. ]]> Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:58:27 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39272&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39272 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39268&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39268 Author: aaronk
Subject: 1050
Posted: 30 September 2013 at 2:21pm

Nice trick, Brian! I'll have to remember that one for other tracks with phase issues.]]> Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:21:38 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39268&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39268 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39266&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39266 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 1050
Posted: 30 September 2013 at 2:26am

Figured out how to fix CSG processing in Cool Edit, though. After reading on Wikipedia what CSG was and how it was done (which was simply shifting the phase of the right channel by 90 degrees, or some cases 120 degrees, but 90 was recommended), I tried "undoing" the CSG on the promo "Calling Occupants" with Cool Edit:

Click Generate--Filters--Graphic Phase Shifter

Select "-90 degrees" in the Presets window, and BE SURE to select "Right Only" from the drop down menu next to it.

Voila! The "Calling Occupants" promo now sounds normal. If you try it with another recording and it doesn't sound normal, try moving the bar on the graph to -120 degrees instead of -90, which was apparently used on some records.

I suppose this technique could also be used to create a CSG-processed version, if you wanted, if the commercial 45 used CSG, since they're never issued on CD that way. You'd just have to use the +90 preset in the right channel instead of -90.

Edited by Brian W.]]> Mon, 30 Sep 2013 02:26:09 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39266&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39266 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39264&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39264 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 1050
Posted: 29 September 2013 at 11:59pm

Ohh... The edit on the promo is CSG stereo... THAT'S why it sounds weird. I couldn't put my finger on it.]]> Sun, 29 Sep 2013 23:59:15 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39264&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39264 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39261&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39261 Author: Yah Shure
Subject: 1050
Posted: 29 September 2013 at 10:07pm

Brian W. wrote: The promo version (stereo) of "Calling Occupants" has about a 1 1/2 second longer fade than the commercial 45.

Same thing on my promo and stock, Brian. Chalk it up to different cuttings for the CSG stereo edited version on the promo and the non-CSG stereo edited version on the stock.

The cutting on the CSG promo stereo edited version has an unusually high amount of rumble, which doesn't start until the beginning of the song. It is especially noticeable during the quiet beginning and the fadeout at the end (the stock edited version doesn't have this rumble issue at all.) Perhaps there was an earthquake underway when the promo edit was cut. ;) Unfortunately, with all of that rumble, the extra 1.5 seconds at the end of the stereo promo edit really gets buried in the rubble.

The stereo CSG cutting process consumes more of the available playing area on a 45 than a comparable non-CSG stereo cutting. The "Calling Occupants" CSG stereo promo edit is a case in point: the song eats up so much real estate that there's hardly any deadwax space at all. Not surprisingly, 7:07 album version on the other side is cut in standard (non-CSG) stereo. The deadwax area on the 7:07 side is actually wider than it is on the 3:59 side!

Deadwax edited version details on my copies:

Short/long Columbia Santa Maria vinyl DJ pressing: "A&M 12335 (STEREO) (SHORT)-S3"

Stock Columbia Terre Haute styrene pressing: "T   A&M 12335S-T1"

Edited by Yah Shure]]> Sun, 29 Sep 2013 22:07:56 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39261&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39261 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39257&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39257 Author: Brian W.
Subject: 1050
Posted: 29 September 2013 at 3:21pm

Interesting anomoly I've discovered: The promo version (stereo) of "Calling Occupants" has about a 1 1/2 second longer fade than the commercial 45.

The fades are identical on both until the middle of the final line, "we are your friends," then the commercial version begins fading faster than the promo version, and it dumps a good second and a half earlier than the promo. The final four orchestral notes from the promo, that "da-da da-da," are not on the commercial 45 at all, at least not on the two copies I listened to.]]> Sun, 29 Sep 2013 15:21:39 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=39257&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#39257 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=10617&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#10617 Author: EdisonLite
Subject: 1050
Posted: 04 July 2007 at 1:27pm

The other thought is that maybe Richard considers this an artistic piece that shouldn't be edited. There are some songs, I feel, that are rather lengthy -- Paradise by the Dashboard Light, American Pie, Bohemian Rhapsody -- that should exist only as the artistic expressions they were meant to be. Maybe Richard feels this is his 7-minute epic. ]]> Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:27:42 +0000 https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1050&PID=10617&title=carpenterscalling-occupants#10617