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edtop40
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| Posted: 23 May 2010 at 7:10pm | IP Logged
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my commercial cassingle of the rembrandts song "i'll be there for you (theme from friends)" issued as eastwest 64384 poses issues for me.....on both the cassingle and cd single with the same catalog number, the lead track is NOT "i'll be there for you" but the song "this house is not a home"....in all whitburn's books the lead track is "i'll be there for you" and not what's actually the lead track.....also in billboard magazine from the time they have the tracks flip-flopped......anyone have any thoughts on this issue??
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 May 2010 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
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Ed, regardless of whether or not "This House Is Not A Home" was deemed to be the lead track on the cassingle, it wasn't the actual hit. That's why "I'll Be There For You" is listed first in the Whitburn books. And radio airplay over multiple formats was a big reason for that:
#17 pop BB
#1 AC (for seven weeks)
#23 modern rock
By the time the 45 was issued, there was no question about what the hit was, and while THINAH was included on the B-side, it was merely the fifth of six album snippets.
THINAH did receive saturation airplay on the local Twin Cities AA station.
Edited by Yah Shure on 23 May 2010 at 7:47pm
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 23 May 2010 at 7:55pm | IP Logged
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Ed:
"I'll Be There for You" was tearing up the Top 40 and AC radio airwaves during the spring and summer of 1995, peaking at #1 for eight weeks on the Billboard airplay chart, but wasn't eligible to chart on the Hot 100 at that point and time because the song wasn't available on a commercial single format. However, in September of that year, the EastWest label elected to include "I'll Be There..." as the B-side of the Rembrandt's follow-up single "This House Is Not a Home".
Although airplay for "I'll Be There..." had been declining for weeks by this time, it was still clearly generating far more spins at radio than "This House..." and therefore Billboard rules at the time deemed "I'll Be There..." as the official A-side since this track was clearly driving the commercial single's sales, not "This House...".
Unfortunately for the Rembrandts, "I'll Be There..." achieved a deceivingly low #17 peak on the Hot 100 as a result of the song appearing on a commercial single way too late (which of course had started to become a disturbing trend with pop singles around this time). Had a dedicated retail single for "I'll Be There..." been issued months earlier, the song would've almost certainly been a #1 Hot 100 smash.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 23 May 2010 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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yah sure...that's my point...
you said:
By the time the 45 was issued, there was no question about what the hit was, and while THINAH was included on the B-side, it was merely the fifth of six album snippets.
my point is that THINAH was issued as the A-side and not the B-side.....and i know the song "i'll be there for you" was a huge hit.....
Edited by edtop40 on 23 May 2010 at 8:04pm
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 23 May 2010 at 9:01pm | IP Logged
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Ed, my "by the time the 45 was issued" comment was in regard to the commercial 45 having been released even later than the cassingle, and I apologize for not having been more specific. IBTFY is the A-side of the commercial 45.
My take from your initial post was that you were wondering why "House" wasn't listed first in the Whitburn books and BB charts. If that was an incorrect assumption, then I apologize.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 24 May 2010 at 5:51am | IP Logged
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Ed, both Todd Ireland and Yah Sure have really explained this particular situation very well.
Our policy for years has been to list the higher-charting side first, regardless of what the intended "A" or "B" side was originally.
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edtop40
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| Posted: 24 May 2010 at 6:03am | IP Logged
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paul, todd and yah shure.......thanks for the explanations.....
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Paul C
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| Posted: 24 May 2010 at 6:54am | IP Logged
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It was Billboard's policy at the time that the song receiving the most airplay at Top 40 stations (airplay data from other radio formats was not used for the Hot 100 until November 1998) be listed first. What song was indicated as the A-side on the physical single was not relevant.
Yah Shure wrote:
| Ed, my "by the time the 45 was issued" comment was in regard to the commercial 45 having been released even later than the cassingle, and I apologize for not having been more specific. |
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I'm pretty sure the 7-inch single of IBTFY was actually issued well before it appeared as the B-side of the cassette and CD singles of THINAH. At the time that IBTFY was at its peak in Top 40 airplay (and not on the Hot 100 because of its non-availability at retail), I recall a discussion in Billboard's Chart Beat column (don't know if Paul Grein was still writing it or whether Fred Bronson had taken over by then) that readers had brought up that the song was in fact available on a 7-inch single. Grein or Bronson responded that a song issued commercially only on a 7-inch single was not eligible to chart; it had to be issued on a cassette single, CD single, 12-inch single, or one of the other maxi-single formats.
IBTFY didn't become eligible to chart until it was issued as the B-side on the cassette and CD singles of the follow-up, "This House Is Not A Home." But because IBTFY continued to receive more Top 40 airplay throughout the single's chart run, it was always listed first.
There were a few instances during this time period when Billboard flipped which song it listed first during a single's chart run. 2Pac's "California Love" was not available as a commercial single during its radio peak. It was eventually released as the B-side of the follow-up "How Do U Want It". During the first two weeks of the single's chart run, however, "California Love" was still receiving more Top 40 airplay, so it was listed first. By the third week, "How Do U Want It" had surpassed "California Love" in Top 40 airplay and HDUWI started to be listed first. (Another example is the Gin Blossoms' "Til I Hear It From You"/"Follow Me Down".)
At the time, it appears Billboard would list a "tag-along" side if it was receiving any Top 40 airplay at all. At some point between 1996 and 1998, Billboard decided that both sides of a single would only be listed if both sides were on the 75 position Hot 100 airplay chart. If neither song was on the Hot 100 airplay chart, whatever song was receiving the most Top 40 airplay would be listed. This led to the extremely unusual chart run of Puff Daddy's single "It's All About The Benjamins"/"Been Around The World". Neither song was in the Top 75 in airplay at Top 40 stations, so initially only IAATB was listed. By the seventh week, both songs had yet to make the Top 75 in airplay, but BATW had surpassed IAATB in airplay at Top 40 stations, so Billboard started listing BATW on the Hot 100, and IAATB (which had been at #2 the week before) completely disappeared from the chart. (From November 1991 until November 1998, the airplay component of the Hot 100 was strictly Top 40 - including its sub-genres: Mainstream, rhythmic, etc., but not AC, AOR, Rock - but the sales component was not. But that's a topic for another day's soliloquy.)
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torcan
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| Posted: 24 May 2010 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
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Basically everything Paul said is true. I recall that Chartbeat discussion, and (I think it was Bronson at the time) teased us, saying "I'll Be There For You" won't be eligible to chart. Then the next week stated something like "...maybe it will be, stay tuned..."
Re. the 7-inch single policy...the last single to chart on the Hot 100 and be available only on a 7-inch single was Righteous Bros "Unchained Melody" in late 1990. Around the mid-90s, record companies began issuing many songs on 7-inch singles that weren't available commercially on any other format. I wondered at the time why they didn't chart. Billboard mentioned during the "I'll Be there For You" run that songs available ONLY on 7-inch singles weren't eligable to chart and the rule was made and mentioned in the magazine "some time ago". I've got all the Billboards from that time and I never saw any mention of it. I almost think the rule change was made in secret!
After the methodology changed in Dec 1998, that made 7-inch only titles eligable again.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 24 May 2010 at 9:28pm | IP Logged
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Just to clarify since it's come up here a couple of times... It was Fred Bronson who wrote the Chart Beat article in Billboard magazine explaining why "I'll Be There for You" was ineligible to chart. Bronson took over the Chart Beat column from Paul Grein in January, 1993 and has been authoring it ever since.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 25 May 2010 at 5:44am | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
| Bronson took over the Chart Beat column from Paul Grein in January, 1993 and has been authoring it ever since. |
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Actually, Fred Bronson's final Chart Beat column was in March of 2009. It's now authored by Billboard's Gary Trust.
BTW, Paul Grein has a great weekly chart blog on Yahoo Music.
Edited by Paul Haney on 25 May 2010 at 5:54am
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 25 May 2010 at 4:24pm | IP Logged
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Yah Shure wrote:
| ...the commercial 45 having been released even later than the cassingle... |
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Oops. I must have been thinking of the 78. ;)
Thanks all for providing the correct timeline.
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jimct
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| Posted: 27 May 2010 at 5:07pm | IP Logged
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As my buddy Paul Haney knows, for many years I have been a big purchaser/supporter of Record Research/Mr. Whitburn's publications, and I know he is sometimes hamstrung by the changing Billboard policies of the 90's. I was at the same Top 40 station for 30 years, and I compiled our year-end countdowns for 28 of those years. "I'll Be There For You" was by far our #1 song of the year in 1995. And never was the "points margin" between it and the #2 song of the year so wide. It was without question one of the 3 biggest hits in my entire 30 years. And while I realize we were just one station, this song was absolutely massive everywhere on the Top 40 side. I've always felt that no other song's true popularity has been more misrepresented in the reference books in the entire rock era than this one has been. I blame it almost 100% on the later association to "This House Is Not A Home". We never even played that song on our station, and it really has nothing at all to do with the previous smash, aside from the fact that the two were "coupled" on a Billboard-approved single format, VERY late in the "I'll Be There For You" hit run, by which point any trickle of residual singles sales would reflect nothing at all meaningful. This one, highly questionable policy at the time has to me completely overruled both the facts, and just plain common sense, ever since. In my respectful opinion, RR needs to totally re-examine/re-assess how it has currently interpreted this song's popularity, because it is grossly misrepresented as currently shown (as I step off my soapbox.) FYI, here are my promo CD single details for both:
The Rembrandts-"I'll Be There For You" (PRCD 9202-2)
1-(non-described version) (listed: none; actual 3:06)
The Rembrandts-"This House Is Not A Home" (PRCD 9279-2)
1-(LP Version) (listed 3:17; actual 3:16)
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mstgator
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| Posted: 31 May 2010 at 7:42am | IP Logged
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jim: I agree... at the very least, RR should include a title note indicating that IBTFY spent 8 weeks atop the Hot 100 Airplay chart prior to its single release (since separate Sales/Airplay data was ditched after the 10th edition of Top Pop Singles).
Paul C: I could be mistaken, but I recall that AC airplay was added to the Hot 100 mix on 7/17/93, and Modern Rock was added a year or so after that (this was mentioned at the time in Billboard's weekly Hot 100 Singles Spotlight column). As you mentioned, the remaining formats weren't added until the chart's massive overhaul in November 1998.
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Paul C
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| Posted: 02 June 2010 at 5:12am | IP Logged
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mstgator wrote:
Paul C: I could be mistaken, but I recall that AC airplay was added to the Hot 100 mix on 7/17/93, and Modern Rock was added a year or so after that (this was mentioned at the time in Billboard's weekly Hot 100 Singles Spotlight column). As you mentioned, the remaining formats weren't added until the chart's massive overhaul in November 1998. |
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You are correct, sir!
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Topic: rembrandts "i’ll be there for you"
