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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 29 December 2008 at 8:11am | IP Logged
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I recently posted this on the stevehoffman.tv forum, and thought it might be of some interest here. Never got a good answer to the questions at the end of the post...
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I'm trying to figure out where the various versions come from, and I haven't had any luck finding definitive info out there, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
There's a stereo version out there. (Not sure if this was recorded to be an album-only version...)
The stereo version has a tiny gap between the first bass drum hit and the first tambourine hit (at 0:01), has no drum fill at the end of the first horn riff (at 0:09), says "coming to ya" (at 0:17), has both vocalists step all over each other with a pair of unintelligible lines (at 1:45), and fades from 2:28-2:36.
I have this stereo version on the awful-sounding Rockin' Down The Block (Silver Eagle Records, 1987), but it has to exist in a better-sounding version somewhere else. I don't have any of the Sam & Dave albums on CD or on LP.
There's a mono fold-down version of the above take, with all the same features at the same timings.
I have this mono fold-down version on Only Rock And Roll 1965 1969 (JCI, 1994).
Finally, there's a third version, which seems to be the most common. (I assume this was the true 45 version?) It's also in mono, but the intro from a different take is spliced on, the overlapping vocals at 1:45 are muted, and it runs a bit longer than the stereo/mono-fold-down versions. Specifically, this third version has no gap between the first bass drum hit and the first tambourine hit (at 0:01), has a drum fill at the end of the first horn riff (at 0:09), says "coming to YOU" (at 0:17), has no vocals at 1:45, and fades from 2:30-2:38.
You can tell that there's a new intro spliced on - at 0:19, you can hear that the new intro is spliced onto a higher-generation tape. The high end is just a little bit muted after the splice, which occurs at the snare that begins the phrase "on a dusty road". After 0:19, this third version uses the same take as the stereo version and the mono-fold-down version described above - you can tell this pretty easily by lining them up in a multi-track audio editor, which is what I did.
I assume that this third version was the hit - it turns up on the Atlantic soul boxed set, the Stax boxed set, Sam & Dave Atlantic GH CD, the Rhino 2-CD set, and even Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1967. You can hear the slight change in tape generation at 0:19 in all of them. (You can't hear such a splice in the stereo and mono fold-down versions from above.)
So I ask all of you - where did the new 19-second intro come from? And where's the rest of the take from that intro?
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 29 November 2019 at 11:45pm | IP Logged
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Eleven years later, I'll add a little mastering info.
LP version in stereo
The LP version has a tiny gap between the first bass drum hit and the first tambourine hit (at 0:01), has no drum fill at the end of the first horn riff (at 0:09), says "coming to ya" (at 0:17), has both vocalists step all over each other with a pair of unintelligible lines (at 1:45), and fades from 2:28-2:36.
The LP version in stereo first appeared on Warner Special Products' Atlantic Soul Classics (1985), where it runs 2:35. It sounds just fine - nice dynamic range, nice EQ, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:- Warner Special Products/Sessions' 2-CD Sixties Frat Rock (1990)
There's a different analog transfer on Silver Eagle Records/Capitol's 3-CD Rockin' Down The Block (1987), which also sounds fine.
LP version in mono
I believe that the mono LP version is just a fold-down of the stereo LP version. In comparing these CDs, I discovered that the stereo versions have WAY less high end than the mono versions. If you fold down any of the three CDs above to mono, they'll sound like mud compared to any of the CDs below.
The LP version in mono first appeared on Atlantic's multi-CD Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Vol. 6 (1985 release), where it runs 2:34. It also sounds just fine - nice dynamic range, nice EQ, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:- Atlantic's Golden Age Of Black Music 1960-1970 (1988)
- Time-Life's 2-CD Rock Party (1990) - shortened fade, possibly noise reduction?
There's a new analog transfer on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 10 1967 The Beat Goes On (1988), where it runs 2:34. This version also sounds just fine - nice dynamic range, nice EQ, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. I suspect that this disc uses the same source tape as Atlantic R&B, but with the absolute polarity inverted (insignificant). The same analog transfer is used on:- JCI's Only Rock 'N Roll 1965-1969 (1994)
- Warner Special Products/Starland's 2-CD 40 Party Classics (1996) - truncates fade
45 version in mono (doesn't exist in stereo)
Two big differences from the LP version:- The first 19 seconds of the song are from a completely different take of the song. This alternate take starts more tightly than the one on the LP version, so I can see why the producers used it for the 45. There's no gap between the first bass drum hit and the first tambourine hit (at 0:01). Unlike the LP version, the 45 has a drum fill at the end of the first horn riff (at 0:09). Unlike the LP ("coming to ya"), the 45 says "coming to YOU" (at 0:17). You can tell that there's a new intro spliced on: At 0:19, you can hear that the new intro is spliced onto a higher-generation tape. The high end is just a little bit muted after the splice, which occurs at the snare that begins the phrase "on a dusty road".
- On the 45, the overlapping vocals at 1:45 are muted. Same take as the LP (as best as I could tell), just muted vocals.
The 45 version first appeared on Atlantic's Sam And Dave single-artist CD Best Of (1987), where it runs 2:36. Again, it also sounds just fine here - nice dynamic range, nice EQ, no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:- Atlantic's multi-CD Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 (1991 rerelease)
- Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 2 1967 (1991) - shortens fade by about 2 seconds
There's a new analog transfer on Atlantic's spectacular 9-CD Complete Stax/Volt Singles (1991), where it runs 2:37. It has a boosted high end compared to Best Of (more hiss), the fade extends about a second longer than Best Of, and I suspect that it's just a new analog transfer of the same source tapes used for Best Of. It's an improvement, but only a slight improvement because Best Of sounded pretty good to my ears. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's promo sampler PRO2 90129 Rhino Atlantic Remasters Collection CD Sampler Disc 2 (1992)
- Rhino's 2-CD Same And Dave anthology Sweat 'N' Soul 1965-1971 (1993) - digitally identical
- Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1967 (1993 rerelease; "Soul Man" replaces "Daydream Believer" from the original 1989 release) - digitally identical
- Rhino Special Products' cheapie Soul Hits Vol. 3 (1993) - digitally exactly 0.238 dB quieter
- Rhino's Atlantic Ultimate '60s Soul Smashes (1998)
- Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000) - differently-EQ'd digital clone
- European release Best Soul Album In The World Ever (1999) - too loud and clips a bit; avoid
I think I lost my Rhino's Very Best Of, but I'm 99% certain that it's digital clones of Sweat 'N' Soul 1965-1971.
My recommendations
Honestly, I didn't run into any bad-sounding versions of the song, aside from the Best Soul Album In The World Ever, which is too loud. All of the above will work just fine for you. But if I have to pick...
LP version in stereo: Warner Special Products' Atlantic Soul Classics (1985)
LP version in mono: Atlantic's multi-CD Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Vol. 6 (1985 release)
45 version in mono: Atlantic's multi-CD Complete Stax/Volt Singles (1991)
The Atlantic multi-CD sets aren't cheap, so you can easily go with Rhino's Very Best Of for the 45 version in mono, or Atlantic's Golden Age Of Black Music 1960-1970 for the LP version in mono, both of which are pretty cheap nowadays.
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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AutumnAarilyn
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| Posted: 01 December 2019 at 12:11am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the legwork and insight on this. As I
currently listen to it, the "Coming to YOU" sounds odd
but I guess I haven't been hearing the most common 45
version on the radio. Rarely do I play it from my Stax
box. We become accustomed to a certain version and it's
not fun when we aren't sure what we have or its origins.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Sam & Dave - Soul Man - To Ya vs. To You
