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Subject Topic: The Zombies - She’s Not There Post ReplyPost New Topic
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NightAire
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Posted: 01 July 2022 at 11:48pm | IP Logged Quote NightAire

I fell down a rabbit hole today / tonight that seems to have no end and few answers! I'm hoping a few experts on the board can help me sort out not only this track, but The Zombies' library as well.

What I know: The Zombies' first album in the USA was "The Zombies" and was in mono, as was the single of She's Not There. As far as I can tell, they were the same mix. This mono mix shows up on many reputable sources.

"The Decca Stereo Anthology" (from 2002) released many tracks from the early days in true stereo for the first time. "The Zombies In Stereo" (2013) indicates it has original era stereo mixes, original SIMULATED stereo mixes, and the 2002 stereo mixes.

What I think: the mono track had drum overdubs that were lost on later stereo releases. Most stereo releases are missing the overdubs (as mentioned in the database).

What confuses me: Several absolutely swear up and down the original Zombies LP in the USA was NEVER in stereo, despite Discogs and Steve Hoffman's little group having photos of what I believe to be an original 1965 Parrot cover that clearly says "stereo" on it.

If these covers are real and original to the era, I don't know if they were real stereo or simulated stereo. I don't know where or if the simulated stereo mixes mentioned on "The Zombies In Stereo" were released at the time, even though the claim is they date to the era.

Someone on YouTube claims to have isolated the drum overdubs from the mono mix and layered them back on top of the stereo overdubs.

This stereo mix sounds to me different from the re-creation I linked above. 1965 mix? 2002 mix? Not sure!

Here is an alleged home-brewed DES mix... similar but not identical choices to other stereo mixes, and I especially like the effects on the background vocals.

I've heard a few sources say Hugh Grundy went back into the studio and PLAYED ALONG with the stereo tracks to overdub the hi-hat and replace the original mono overdubs. Some say this performance isn't as good / doesn't match the original overdubs..? It's the version on the DECCA stereo collection, according to Amazon.

Nobody seems to know what happened to the original overdubs, either.

The guy on YouTube claims to have started with "the Hoffman stereo master," which I have yet to determine its CD source.

Alec Palao is said to have produced and remixed... one of the versions on CD out there? Maybe the DECCA but the original post wasn't clear.

--

All of this to say, I can't tell what was available when and where regarding stereo versions of "She's Not There."

I can't even tell how many official stereo mixes there are.

Certainly the underdubbed version sounds like a bad idea, but did the new overdubs actually not match the original single? Could an individual's restoration of the mono overdubs on a stereo mix beat what a label put out with the original drummer back in the studio?

I'd love to have a comprehensive listing of the various stereo mixes released (if there are multiple), and what they do or don't have as far as overdubs.

As it is, the YouTube stereo-with-mono-overdubs seems good to my ears, but I wouldn't be surprised if die-hard Zombies fans might have other opinions.

...HELP!!!

Edited by NightAire on 02 July 2022 at 12:01am


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davidclark
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Posted: 02 July 2022 at 6:04am | IP Logged Quote davidclark

That Parrot LP that indicates stereo was not, it was "e". That happened "rather
often" in the 60s. Won't go into the reasons...Just seeing "stereo" on the
jacket did not necessarily mean (true) stereo.



I understand the song was first issued in stereo on 1969 LP “Early Days”, but
missing the drum overdub that was mixed directly to the mono master in 1964.


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NightAire
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Posted: 02 July 2022 at 5:07pm | IP Logged Quote NightAire

So there was a "stereo" release in 1965, but it was electronically re-channeled (matching the fake stereo on the Zombies In Stereo CD).

The stereo underdub was first released in 1969.

That's some progress, as least! Thanks, David.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 02 July 2022 at 8:01pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

Mono

The mono version was the hit in 1964.

The oldest CD I have with the mono 45 version is Rhino's British Invasion Vol. 1 (1988). It sounds excellent here, with great dynamic range, nice EQ, and no evidence of added noise reduction on the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1964 (original 1989 release) - digitally identical
  • Rhino's Billboard Top Rock 'N' Roll Hits 1955-1974 Sampler (PRO2 90025, 1989) - digitally identical
  • Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 3 1964 RE-1 reissue (1989)
  • Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 9 1964 (1991)
  • Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1964 (1993 RE-1 reissue) - digitally identical
  • Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 3 1964 RE-2 reissue (1993)
  • Time-Life's History Of Rock 'N' Roll Vol. 7 The British Invasion 1964-1966 (1993)
  • Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 11 1964 (1995) - is a repackaging of the Superhits disc
There are different analog transfers on the following two CDs, both of which sound just fine but neither of which is an improvement over the British Invasion mastering:
  • DCC's Zombies collection Greatest Hits (1990)
  • Varese Sarabande's Dick Bartley On The Radio Volume Four (1998)
Stereo

...chaos...utter chaos...

Sorry, I'm punting with the stereo versions.

Edited by crapfromthepast on 02 July 2022 at 8:28pm


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TomDiehl1
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Posted: 04 July 2022 at 5:19am | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1

Yes, the Decca Stereo Anthology version has
a new drum track on it. Just because the
original drummer played a new track, using
the same drum kit he used originally,
doesn't mean he plays it the same. It's
definitely very different. And definitely
not as good.

On the other hand, I can't do things I did
37 years earlier the exact same, either
(never mind the fact that I am now 37).

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Randypny
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Posted: 15 July 2022 at 12:58pm | IP Logged Quote Randypny

For its CD Hard To Find Jukebox Classics 1960-64: 30 Amazing Stereo
Hits
, Hit Parade Records did a digital extraction of the overdubbed parts
from the original mono mix and mixed them into the original stereo mix,
resulting in the closest thing you'll ever get to the hit version in stereo.


Edited by Randypny on 15 July 2022 at 1:09pm
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