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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 25 August 2019 at 4:24am | IP Logged
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jebsib wrote:
The only drawback on Year End Charts are
those odd occasions when huge #1
hits fall between the cracks and wind up never appearing
on the year ends
(Happened a lot in the 60s and 70s) |
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Which is one of the big reasons Joel doesn't much care for
them!
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RoknRobnLoxley
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| Posted: 25 August 2019 at 5:39am | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
jebsib wrote:
The only drawback on Year End Charts are
those odd occasions when huge #1
hits fall between the cracks and wind up never appearing
on the year ends
(Happened a lot in the 60s and 70s) |
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Which is one of the big reasons Joel doesn't much care for
them! |
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Well, as we know the problem is with the year-end cutoffs/deadlines. Some records get split into 2 years, that's the nature of the beast. Fred Bronson has kinda solved this issue by 're-doing' the year-end pop singles charts in his book "Billboard's Hottest Hot 100 Hits", forcing each record into its one peak year. I don't think Fred 'fixed' all the year-end charts, I wanna say just the pop singles (but I'm too lazy to go pull out the book and check).
Even so, I still like to review the Billboard year-end charts, mostly for sentimental/nostalgia reasons. This proposed book would be so kool! Year-end charts for pop, country, R&B. Singles & albums. BB, CB, RW. It would be so incredible, a super summary to tickle our memories.
Especially so because Joel won't continue the pop album charts book series. We'd at least get a summary of each year's album charts.
If publishing a book is too difficult, I'd settle for a DVD-ROM of pdf files...
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Chartman
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| Posted: 25 August 2019 at 7:05am | IP Logged
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Poor Paul - everybody requesting all these different types of books but Paul is already overworked (and hopefully NOT underpaid) doing those tedious Cash Box Regional Hit books - don't imagine there is that much of a demand for these, but what do I know?! Wish Joel could hire on a helper for Paul because he pretty much the "Research" in the company.
Of course, my suggested book would be the Music Vendor/Record Work R&B Hits 1954-1982 to complete the Pop, C&W, R&B trifecta - but then again not sure how well those previous books sold.
Just curious - did you guys develop a proprietary software program that enables the data mining required for your books?
How's Fran doing? Haven't seen an update for awhile...hope all is well with her.
Edited by Chartman on 25 August 2019 at 7:06am
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Scanner
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| Posted: 25 August 2019 at 2:04pm | IP Logged
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Not to be morbid...but, Joel will be turning 80 this
year. Any thoughts on what will happen to Record
Research and Joel's trove of music, magazines and other
memorabilia after he retires?
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 3:55am | IP Logged
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We are considering the possibility of some more album
chart books. Maybe 1970-75 for starters.
Our in-house database was custom-developed in 1983. We
did a major overhaul of it in 2001. Former employee Bill
Hathaway still does freelance work on it for us when
needed. When Jeanne Olynick retired a few years ago, I
got a crash-course in working with the editing software
and I've also picked up some programming skills, all
self-taught. We also have a freelance IT guy, but I've
also learned a lot of that on my own, so we only call him
in when absolutely necessary.
Fran is about the same. She is still paralyzed from the
waist-down. However, her spirits are good and I talk
with her often.
As far as I can tell, Joel will never fully retire. If
anything were to happen to him, there are plans in place
to continue the business. His daughter is 54 and I'm 53,
so hopefully Record Research will be around for many
years to come. BTW, 2020 will mark our 50th year in
business (and my 28th year with the company)!
Edited by Paul Haney on 26 August 2019 at 9:07am
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kingofskiffle
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 7:46am | IP Logged
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Really hope Record Research will continue for years to come.
I like the idea of an Albums book.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 9:03am | IP Logged
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I hope so too!
Edited by Paul Haney on 26 August 2019 at 9:05am
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davidclark
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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Just for info, here's a list of #1 songs that failed to appear on a BB Yearend
chart:
Tokens, The The Lion Sleeps Tonight 1961
Marvelettes, The Please Mr. Postman 1961
4 Seasons, The Big Girls Don't Cry 1962
Tornadoes, The Telstar &n bsp; 1962
Crystals, The He's A Rebel 1962
Bobby "Boris" Pickett & The Crypt-Kickers Monster Mash 1962
Singing Nun, The Dominique 1963
Beatles, The I Feel Fine 1964
Supremes, The Come See About Me 1964
Bobby Vinton Mr. Lonely 1964
Lorne Greene Ringo & nbsp; 1964
Beatles, The Yesterday 1965
Byrds, The Turn! Turn! Turn! (To Everything There Is A Season) 1965
Rolling Stones, The Get Off Of My Cloud 1965
Supremes, The I Hear A Symphony 1965
Dave Clark Five, The Over And Over 1965
Beatles, The Hello Goodbye 1967
Steam Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye 1969
Peter, Paul & Mary Leaving On A Jet Plane 1969
Supremes, The Someday We'll Be Together 1969
Partridge Family, The I Think I Love You 1970
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles The Tears Of A Clown 1970
Helen Reddy I Am Woman 1972
Ringo Starr Photograph &nb sp; 1973
Stevie Wonder You Haven't Done Nothin' 1974
Barry White Can't Get Enough Of Your Love, Babe 1974
John Lennon Whatever Gets You Thru The Night 1974
Steve Miller Band Rock'n Me 1976
"Can't Get Enough Of Your Love, Babe" peaked in September 1974 so what
happened with that one? I too take these charts for what they are (not
accurate nor complete).
__________________
dc1
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jebsib
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 11:39am | IP Logged
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It is true the Year Ends were wonky, but remember - they were the official
American charts that were known around the world thanks to Casey Kasem et
al. Thus, despite their obvious deficits, they 'became' the culture.
Edited by jebsib on 26 August 2019 at 11:40am
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Scanner
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 12:30pm | IP Logged
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I remember being floored when reading "You Light Up My
Life" was not the No. 1 song of 1977 or even listed
among that year's top 100 Pop hits. I believe chart
years cut off then at the end of October by which time
"Light" had already clocked three weeks at No. 1. The
song was ultimately No. 3 for 1978, although it had
fallen from No. 1 by the time the 1977 calendar (not
chart) year was over.
Glad to hear there are plans to continue Record
Research after Joel retires. I would love to see a
Country Comparison book including Billboard, Cashbox,
R&R and Record World that would run through R&R's end
in 2009...among other books that I know will never be
updated (e.g. an AC book update) or published (e.g.
all the other R&R charts and Cashbox and Record World
album charts)!
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 26 August 2019 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
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Scanner wrote:
Glad to hear there are plans to continue
Record Research after Joel retires. I would love to see
a
Country Comparison book including Billboard, Cashbox,
R&R and Record World that would run through R&R's end
in 2009...among other books that I know will never be
updated (e.g. an AC book update) or published (e.g.
all the other R&R charts and Cashbox and Record World
album charts)! |
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If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's
never say "never" when it comes to new book projects. I
never imagined that we'd actually expand into the other
publications. It took me years to convince Joel to do a
Radio & Records book, for instance.
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RoknRobnLoxley
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| Posted: 28 August 2019 at 6:23am | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
We are considering the possibility of some more album
chart books. Maybe 1970-75 for starters. |
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I'm in, Paul! And also for the 1960-1964 albums charts, and the 1975-1979 album charts. And maybe more after that.
Question: do you and Joel do any market research, for what books your customers would like to see? You've got all our emails, I think a 'wish list' poll would be most illuminating for you. I've been buying your books for 45 years, and have never been asked as to what books I would like yall to do. (but I do send yall frequent hints, here and by email)
And I'd also throw in, don't be afraid to produce a book that Joel doesn't have any personal interest in doing. If it brings in big bucks, just do it! Cheers...
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Hykker
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| Posted: 28 August 2019 at 9:31am | IP Logged
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jebsib wrote:
The only drawback on Year End Charts are
those odd occasions when huge #1
hits fall between the cracks and wind up never appearing on
the year ends
(Happened a lot in the 60s and 70s) |
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Contrast that to this century where chart runs are so long
that more than a few songs have made the year end charts 2
consecutive years.
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PopArchivist
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| Posted: 28 August 2019 at 9:37pm | IP Logged
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Paul Haney wrote:
| As far as I can tell, Joel will never fully retire. |
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The man has way too much music in his collection to ever fully "retire" from putting out the music reference books. A lot of us on here who collect would love it if he posted every once in awhile and shared a lot of his wisdom.
The only reason I suggested a more comprehensive ranking of 1900-mid 1940 chart songs (the pre-Billboard age) was because eventually I am going to attempt to assemble as much of that era as I can in lossless. I am not aware of anyone who has attempted to find this era on CD. Because Pat's database only goes back to 1955, their are limited references the further you go back, Joel's 1900-1940 book being one of the few that I can look at.
If you recall we spoke years ago and you actually took my suggestion(s) concerning redoing the 1986 release of the 1890-1940 period. The only thing missing from the book was some way to rank the hits annual style as many of us use Joel's numbering system of each year to properly organize our collections.
Again a big thank you for everything you do...
Edited by PopArchivist on 28 August 2019 at 9:39pm
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RoknRobnLoxley
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Paul, are there any plans in the pipeline for a revised Hot Country Albums book? Seeing as how the last one was for 1964-2007, we've got 11 years of data to catch up on. Thanks...
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Hykker
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PopArchivist wrote:
The only reason I suggested a more
comprehensive ranking of 1900-mid 1940 chart songs (the
pre-Billboard age) was because eventually I am going to
attempt to assemble as much of that era as I can in
lossless. I am not aware of anyone who has attempted to
find this era on CD. Because Pat's database only goes
back to 1955, their are limited references the further
you go back, Joel's 1900-1940 book being one of the few
that I can look at. |
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How many "hit songs" as we know them from the rock era
were there pre-1940? I thought most music sales were
sheet music, and as far as record sales went there were
multiple artists had concurrent (and often regional)
versions of contemporary hit songs.
I would also imagine that any chart methodology from then
would be crude and not very comprehensive.
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PopArchivist
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Hykker wrote:
How many "hit songs" as we know them from the rock era
were there pre-1940? |
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There is no "definitive" annual of hits songs for this era, but there were hit songs (just an example, Puttin' on the Ritz by Irving Berlin) that are worth collecting. I do think you can't define "hit songs" of the 10's, 20's, 30's but rather the most successful hits are the ones that Joel Whitburn's 1900-1940 book highlights.
Hykker wrote:
I thought most music sales were
sheet music, and as far as record sales went there were
multiple artists had concurrent (and often regional)
versions of contemporary hit songs.
I would also imagine that any chart methodology from then
would be crude and not very comprehensive.
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I have access to some resources from this period that attempt to rank the years the best they can.
I am pretty sure Joel based his research off what he could find. I am just archiving it into my collection from 1900-1940 where I can. If you need to see what my research has gathered, I can send you a private PM as I like to keep what references I have private.
I can't say for 100 percent confirmation that every 1900-1939 or 1940-1954 hit is on CD, but some are. If Pat is interested when I start I can make notes where I find the sources. Time Life did a good job with their releases but even my collection of Glenn Miller could use more CD resources to pull from. Lots of gaps to fill in and there are only 78's to convert, not 45's. That makes hit harder and more expensive and more time consuming to piece together the hits if they are not on CD.
Hope that answers your question.
Edited by PopArchivist on 02 September 2019 at 2:29pm
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RoknRobnLoxley
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PopArchivist,
I suppose you are aware of the Your Hit Parade chart book by Bruce Elrod (Amazon's got it). It features YHP weekly charts from 1935 to 1954(?), then takes over with Billboard charts up to 1994. Based on the radio and TV show of the same name. And of course there are Variety mag charts out there somewhere for this early time period, but I don't think ever compiled in a book.
Edited by RoknRobnLoxley on 02 September 2019 at 4:02pm
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PopArchivist
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RoknRobnLoxley wrote:
PopArchivist,
I suppose you are aware of the Your Hit Parade chart book by Bruce Elrod (Amazon's got it). It features YHP weekly charts from 1935 to 1954(?), then takes over with Billboard charts up to 1994. Based on the radio and TV show of the same name. And of course there are Variety mag charts out there somewhere for this early time period, but I don't think ever compiled in a book. |
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I have that book, yes. There are references out there, but I have a pretty good list of songs I need to get. Probably in a few years I can really focus my attention to it as I am doing the 1970's right now and that is harder because of the mono-stereo versions.
FYI I did do 1954 and I am missing just 12 top 10 hits. Without Pat's database to look them up on I have to take the time and actually research where I can find them on CD. For 1954, I did not have to do any dubs or drops from a 45 or 78, they were pretty much out there. I can't attest to the rest of the 1950-1953 period, but I don't see the top 10 listed in Whitburn's book being unavailable on CD. Just will take more time to assemble.
I personally don't like the fact that everyone starts everything mid-decade in 1955 because of the rock n roll era. There is clearly though a shift on what is on CD and what is not based on that though. The pre-1954 stuff has not gotten the remastering or attention that the post-1954 stuff has and probably never will. Unless your name was Glenn Miller or Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington or Ray Charles odds are its going to be harder to find that odd hit from those years.
I love Time Life and thank them for putting out the Your Hit Parade stuff. It is better than not having any place that has them at all. Just sad that a great era in music has fallen by the waist side since that generation is pretty much no longer with us that heard the hits of the 10's-mid 30's and would buy that music. The CD is already having enough trouble selling to the current 40-60 year olds who eat up the remastered albums and greatest hits. Just a point.
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| Posted: 03 September 2019 at 1:48pm | IP Logged
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I would also love an update to the Country Albums book,
but only if it would include Sales data. Since the
inclusion of streaming data, the chart is overrun with
compilations instead of more current studio releases
that still show up, albeit with pitiful sales numbers,
on the Sales chart. Luke Combs will likely surpass
Shania Twain's 50 week run at No. 1 with her "Come On
Over." Yet, that is mostly due to streaming - I read
somewhere that his album has barely sold 500,000 copies.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Top Pop Singles 1955-2018
