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PopArchivist
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Posted: 31 October 2018 at 9:06pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

The song was a top 10 hit in 1955. I now have every top 10 hit of 1955 in mono at a spectral analysis of 20 or higher in cd quality but this one. The best I can find it in is 14-16, which is not any better than an average mp3 copy even though it is coming from CD.

Is it because of just the talking sounds and no real music? The Jukebox 1957 it is on is even worse quality in SPEK then the other sources I have. Its available on TIDAL but no guarantee that it is lossless FLAC there either. I checked Itunes it is not there. Amazon's copy was just as bad.

I ordered the other two copies Pat's database said it was available on and hold out hope. If anyone has the 45 and has already done a conversion to wav can they download SPEK and let me know if its just the CD transfers or the song just doesn't get any better than what I have it in.

For such a popular song and huge hit, I am surprised it is not on more CD compilations. I am sure there are other 1950's collectors around here, please help me out. No need to buy the 45 if I can't get anything better than the 14-16 rip I have now. Thanks.
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MMathews
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 2:13am | IP Logged Quote MMathews

PopArchivist,
I can help you out here. 14-16 is all this recording ever
had. And really most of the audio is below 10k. It was
made in a home tape machine and the speed
manipulated so adults would sound like children. The 1957
Jukebox CD you mentioned sadly had noise reduction used
on it which is why the spectral print looks like that.

If you ordered the 2-CD set from Good Music Co. called "I
Believe" then you will see an accurate spectral print of
the master tape. The music stops around 15k and the rest
is just hiss. As a side note, you should have this CD set
anyway as it has lots of harder to find hits and great
sound (no NR). It was produced by Marty Wekser.

Note that not every recording from the 1950s (or earlier)
will have frequencies up to 20k. Another fact is not
every spectral print that peaks lower than 20k is
necessarily "lossy." Sometimes an engineer will simply
roll off the higher frequencies if they determine there's
no (or little) music there, just noise. Rememember that
all the highest frequencies we hear in music like
sibilance or hi-hats is concentrated between 10-14k. All
the musical tones above that are entertaining our
doggies, but not us.

Of course we all prefer to see tones up to 20k because it
makes us confident that nothing has been removed.

So be assured once you have the Good Music Co. CD, you
will have the song in the best quality that exists.

Personally, I'll take the Pebbles & Bam Bam version. :-)

MM

Edited by MMathews on 01 November 2018 at 2:32am
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 7:57am | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

MMathews wrote:
PopArchivist,
I can help you out here. 14-16 is all this recording ever
had. And really most of the audio is below 10k. It was
made in a home tape machine and the speed
manipulated so adults would sound like children. The 1957
Jukebox CD you mentioned sadly had noise reduction used
on it which is why the spectral print looks like that.


Thanks for confirming 15 is about all this recording will peak at. I read the history behind the recording and it fooled must people into thinking kids were singing the song when it was really adults.

I ordered the I Believe 2 cd set and the soundtrack it was on so I can have every available version to compare which one was the best. Thanks for pointing out the information.
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 8:06am | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

MMathews wrote:


Note that not every recording from the 1950s (or earlier)
will have frequencies up to 20k. Another fact is not
every spectral print that peaks lower than 20k is
necessarily "lossy." Sometimes an engineer will simply
roll off the higher frequencies if they determine there's
no (or little) music there, just noise. Rememember that
all the highest frequencies we hear in music like
sibilance or hi-hats is concentrated between 10-14k. All
the musical tones above that are entertaining our
doggies, but not us.

Of course we all prefer to see tones up to 20k because it
makes us confident that nothing has been removed.



That's the thing, right around 20 Spek is possible because I was able to obtain each top 10 hit at that level for the top 10. This song stood out like a sore thumb because of its low Spek. Otherwise I can assure you that all 76 other top 10 hits sound great and are from CD source. Its good to confirm that I was not going crazy!

I can accept that any pre-1955 top 10 in my collection can be lossy more than the 1955 and on stuff. The further you go back in time, the harder it is to find the quality needed to find a cd source. I would not even think pre-1940 songs would really be available in CD quality or have high speks.

I know it's off topic but I was always wondering if anyone has tried to assemble the 1940-1954 top 10 and run into any problems? I know we all put that arbitrary cut off in 1955 but music did exist before that date. Even Billboard was around from mid 1940 onward!
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Brian W.
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 2:51pm | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

PopArchivist wrote:

I know it's off topic but I was always wondering if
anyone has tried to assemble the 1940-1954 top 10 and
run into any problems? I know we all put that
arbitrary cut off in 1955 but music did exist before
that date. Even Billboard was around from mid 1940
onward!


Yes, I have the entire sales chart top ten from 1950-
1959 on CD, except for one dub I had to do myself
(Mervin Shiner's "Peter Cottontail") and one song from
an import "copyright expired" release (Savannah
Churchill's "Sin").

And I have all but maybe three top tens from 1940-
1949, all from CD sources (most legitimate), in
varying quality.

Thing is, the record companies didn't even start using
tape for their recordings until the late '40s -- they
were recorded straight onto lacquer disc. And it was
a slow transition. The Mercury label (home of Patti
Page and Frankie Laine) continued to record almost
exclusively on lacquer until 1953. (Curiously, one of
the earliest tape recordings I know of is Frankie
Laine's #1 hit "That Lucky Old Sun" on Mercury,
recorded in May of 1949... but they didn't keep up the
practice.)

So for the 1940s, even legitimate, licensed releases
are taken from either plain old 78 records or from
lacquer disc masters.


Edited by Brian W. on 01 November 2018 at 2:53pm
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 7:18pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Brian W,

I follow Whitburn's 1940-1954 Singles charts listing in the book he published in 2002 when I am assembling is that the sales chart you are referring to?

Right now its sort of a side project to assemble 1940-1954's top 10. I do think we should talk once I start getting further back. For now the 1955-2018 project will be taking most of my time up. I am always fascinated how OCD this board is in collecting but even I realize that the 1940-1954 stuff is harder to find on CD and in lossless.

What made you want to just do the top ten? I know in 1950-1954 there is enough to do the top 15.

Also if you happen to know where the #1 Where was I? by Charlie Barnet is on CD from 1940, much appreciated it is the only one #1 I am missing.

Edited by PopArchivist on 01 November 2018 at 7:19pm
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Paul C
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 7:37pm | IP Logged Quote Paul C

“Where Was I?” Is on Best Of The Big Band Era 1940 (BMG
Special Products 44546-2).
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 7:53pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Paul C, what is the best source of finding where all the top 10 are from 1940-1954 on CD since Pat's database only starts at 1955?
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Brian W.
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Posted: 01 November 2018 at 10:44pm | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

PopArchivist wrote:
Brian W,

I follow Whitburn's 1940-1954 Singles charts listing in the book he published in 2002 when I am assembling is that the sales chart you are referring to?



If that's this book, then yes.

https://www.recordresearch.com/pop/pop_hits_singles_and_albu ms_1940_1954.php

I follow the week-by-week Best Selling Records charts that are listed in the back of the book.

PopArchivist wrote:


What made you want to just do the top ten? I know in 1950-1954 there is enough to do the top 15.



Oh, I don't know, more than the top ten just seemed like too much work.

PopArchivist wrote:


Also if you happen to know where the #1 Where was I? by Charlie Barnet is on CD from 1940, much appreciated it is the only one #1 I am missing.


That's been on a bunch of CDs, but this one is probably as good as any:

https://www.amazon.com/Number-Greatest-Hits-Various-Artists/ dp/B0000064XG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1541137438&sr=8-2&keywo rds=music%3A+%22Number+1+Greatest+Hits%22+by+%22Various+Arti sts%22
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Paul C
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Posted: 02 November 2018 at 6:18am | IP Logged Quote Paul C

PopArchivist wrote:
Paul C, what is the best source of finding where all the top 10 are from 1940-1954 on CD since Pat's database only starts at 1955?


I'm not aware of any such database currently existing. There used to be a Canadian online retailer, MyMusic, which had a great search engine. You could search for any song title, and it would list all CD's containing the song, including ones they were not selling. They seem to have gone out of business about five or six years ago. No current retailer that I know of has such a search engine.

Of my collection of the approximately 1615 songs that made the Billboard Best Sellers chart between 1940 and 1954, about 120 are on 78 or 45. These I have not come across on CD or digital download. (One advantage of not having particularly good hearing is that I can almost never tell any difference between a lossless and a 256kbps file.)

It's now generally accepted that the vocalists on "Open Up Your Heart" are songwriter Stuart Hamblen's wife, his two teenage daughters, and two of their friends with the tape sped up to make them sound like children. However, in The Billboard Book Of One-Hit Wonders, author Wayne Jancik makes no mention of any of this. He instead quotes 'music researcher and writer' Robert L. Synder, who 'in an exclusive interview' claims, "...There really was no group to it. 'Open Up Your Heart' was a solo record by this little girl named Carole Sue. She didn't get billing on the label, but she did on the sheet music. They were all probably some kids who attended the same church that Stu did, and he had this song and probably thought this girl had a good voice..." The song was first released on Hamblen's own Voss label and then either leased or sold to Decca, which is a bit curious because Hamblen himself was signed to RCA Victor. So more than sixty years later, there exist two completely different accounts of the origin of the recording.
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 02 November 2018 at 7:48am | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Paul C wrote:
Of my collection of the approximately 1615 songs that made the Billboard Best Sellers chart between 1940 and 1954, about 120 are on 78 or 45. These I have not come across on CD or digital download. (One advantage of not having particularly good hearing is that I can almost never tell any difference between a lossless and a 256kbps file.)



One of these days I intend to also tackle 1900-1939 and I doubt anyone has even tried to assemble all the hits from those years and probably its near impossible to do so since a majority of that stuff is not on CD anywhere at all and would need 78 conversion. If you are up for the challenge at some point I can always send you the top 10 chart info for the 1900-1939 period.

I think assembling lossless for the 1900-1949 period is asking a bit too much. If Itunes or amazon has a 256 bit rate that is perfectly acceptable. The songs were never intended to be at that high quality so if you get it at that quality great. If not, its just great to be able to say that you have every top 10 hit from that era (the top 10 hits being the only thing I would collect from 1900-1939 with the charts being so small and disorganized without Billboard around)

Anyways Paul C and Brian W glad to know if I have questions you have been where I am at. Collecting before 1955 has become somewhat of a novelty I suppose.

Edited by PopArchivist on 02 November 2018 at 7:49am
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Posted: 02 November 2018 at 7:59am | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Brian W

I find it easier to do the 1940-1954 listings countdown starting on page 151 running through page 262. It gets me all the hits of the Best Sellers similar to the way I do the countdown based off the Pop Annual 1955-2016.

To each their own I guess.
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 03 November 2018 at 10:28pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

MMathews wrote:
PopArchivist,


If you ordered the 2-CD set from Good Music Co. called "I
Believe" then you will see an accurate spectral print of
the master tape. The music stops around 15k and the rest
is just hiss. As a side note, you should have this CD set
anyway as it has lots of harder to find hits and great
sound (no NR). It was produced by Marty Wekser.

MM


Just got it today via mail the 2-CD set from Good Music Co., you were right a very good quality compared to all the others out there. Thanks!
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