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Paul Haney
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Posted: 12 April 2018 at 3:38am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Great discussion here guys! Can you imagine if iTunes and/or streaming was around back in the day? Every cut from every Beatles album would've charted. There weren't even any singles off Sgt. Pepper or the White Album until years after they were released!

I always remind people that Billboard is the one compiling this info, we only report it. I sometimes shake my head at what makes the charts each week, but as Aaron pointed out, the changes in technology are mainly responsible. Billboard is trying to keep on top of things as best they can. I have friends that work there and I think they do a great job keeping tabs on it all.

At the end of the day, it's music. This stuff is supposed to be fun! I think people can take it too seriously at times (myself included).
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 12 April 2018 at 3:56am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman wrote:
Here are the biggest discrepancies between 2017 peak
positions on the Country Airplay (CA) and Hot Country
Songs (HCS) charts:

Songs that peaked higher on the CA chart
"Ask Me How I Know" by Garth Brooks CA = 1 HCS =
13

"Yours If You Want It" by Rascal Flatts CA = 1 HCS
= 13

"Outta Style" by Aaron Watson CA = 10 HCS = 24
"Baby, Let's Lay Down And Dance" by Garth Brooks CA =
15 HCS = 29
"California" by Big & Rich CA = 20 HCS = 32
"Missing" by William Michael Morgan CA = 29 HCS =49
"At The House" by Blake Shelton CA = 33 HCS = 49
"Til Tomorrow" by Walker McGuire CA = 35 HCS = 50

Songs that peaked higher on the HCS chart
"Speak To A Girl" by Tim McGraw & Faith Hill HCS = 6
CA = 19
"Dear Hate" by Maren Morris HCS = 18 CA = 29
"Sixteen" by Thomas Rhett HCS = 24 CA = 59
"Back To God" by Reba HCS = 25 CA = 41
"In The Blood" by John Mayer HCS = 39 CA = 57
"Better Me" by Montgomery Gentry HCS = 40 CA =60

Have no explanation as to why. Two #1 CA songs only
peaked at #13 on the HCS chart and look at the
difference for "Sixteen" - 24 vs 59.


Both Garth Brooks and Rascal Flatts are older artists that just seem to do better with radio programmers than they do with streaming/downloading users.

As for "Sixteen" by Thomas Rhett, it got enough airplay as an album cut to just squeak on the Airplay chart. If it's ever released as a proper single to radio, it will climb much higher.
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Hykker
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Posted: 12 April 2018 at 4:32am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

Paul Haney wrote:
Every cut from every Beatles album
would've charted. There weren't even any singles off
Sgt. Pepper or the White Album until years after they
were released!


Well, almost every cut. :-/
Add "Rubber Soul" to the list of Beatles albums that
contained no singles (I'm talking the American version),
though for the amount of airplay it got "Michelle" might
as well have been.


Quote:
I always remind people that Billboard is the one
compiling this info, we only report it. I sometimes
shake my head at what makes the charts each week, but as
Aaron pointed out, the changes in technology are mainly
responsible. Billboard is trying to keep on top of
things as best they can. I have friends that work there
and I think they do a great job keeping tabs on it all.


Not an enviable task! As each year goes by it gets
harder and harder to define what a "hit" song is...so
many different charts and very little crossover between
them. And that's not taking into account the "one week
charters" where there's a flurry of d/l activity after
being featured on a tv show and then nothing (cast of
Glee anyone?).
My hat is off to everyone involved for trying to make
sense out of the whole thing.


Edited by Hykker on 12 April 2018 at 4:34am
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jebsib
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Posted: 12 April 2018 at 5:54am | IP Logged Quote jebsib

Also, Garth Brooks refuses to be on iTunes or major streaming services. It is a
miracle that #1 CA song charted so high on HCS to begin with, having no real
online or sales presence.
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 12 April 2018 at 8:58am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

jebsib wrote:
Also, Garth Brooks refuses to be on iTunes or major streaming services. It is a
miracle that #1 CA song charted so high on HCS to begin with, having no real
online or sales presence.


Well, airplay IS factored into the HCS chart, so any #1 Airplay hit should at least hit the Top 10 on HCS (but obviously not always).
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Chartman
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Posted: 15 April 2018 at 3:08pm | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Just got my book and been reading it a lot. One thing I was wondering was is there some master source where you find labels and label numbers? Billboard use to include this info on their chart but no longer. I was running through quite a few Rock albums and the label/numbers I had some differences. Sometimes I had the same number but different label, others I had the same label but different number, and yet others I had the same label but a longer number - say I had 01XXXX02 but you would show just XXXX.

This week The Weeknd had the #1 album with "My Dear Melancholy". In the write-up BB said this album was on XO/Republic Records. On the Top 200 chart the imprint was listed as XO and the label was Republic. iTunes says the album is on The Weeknd XO label, Amazon says The Weeknd is the label, Allmusic says XO Digital, Barnesandnobles.com says it on Republic 002841202. So what would Record Research use?

Thanks
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 16 April 2018 at 3:18am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Our general rule of thumb is to use the first label listed by Billboard. This is for space considerations more than anything, as showing multiple labels can get quite long. As for the numbers, we generally go by what Billboard shows on their charts on the Billboard Plus (formerly Billboard Information Network) site. Sometimes they list no number at all, then I have to go hunting for the number elsewhere. Like the labels, the numbers can get quite long and don't always fit in with the general numbering system of the label, so I have to use my best judgement on those. Not like the old days when the label & number system was more logical and streamlined!
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jebsib
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Posted: 19 April 2018 at 10:35am | IP Logged Quote jebsib

The book is superb.
Can't believe the last edition was so long ago.

No Top Pop Singles this year, I gather…? :-)
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 19 April 2018 at 1:21pm | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

jebsib wrote:
The book is superb.
Can't believe the last edition was so long ago.

No Top Pop Singles this year, I gather…? :-)


The earliest time frame for the next Top Pop Singles is next year (2019). Too far out to know for sure.
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 19 April 2018 at 1:30pm | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman wrote:
For your updated Country Singles book you may want to look at some potential updates at the spreadsheet found at:

http://www25.zippyshare.com/v/wzrmNVFp/file.html

Most of the errors seemed focus on the years when Billboard ran three concurrent charts. All occurred before you were the research guy at Record Research.


Chartman, I went thru all of your corrections today. However, there were a couple of things that weren't errors:

Cryin', Prayin', Waitin', Hopin' by Hank Snow did peak at #10 on the DJ chart on 8/6/55.

This Is My Year For Mexico by Crystal Gayle did peak at #21 on the chart dated 9/27/75.

Also, there are a few things that are a matter of judgement:

Don't Be Cruel / Hound Dog by Elvis Presley. Joel decided to combine the chart stats on this one.

Pistol Packin' Mama by the other 3 artists. Those other artists are crossed off our pasted-up charts. Looks like Joel decided not to list them in the book.

Yes, I Know Why by Webb Pierce. Billboard showed a tie for one week at #1 with Heartbreak Hotel. However, the next week's chart shows a "last week" position of #2. Thus, we concluded that the previous week's chart was a typo and the #2 peak stands.

Thanks again for the rest of the corrections for the new edition.
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Chartman
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Posted: 19 April 2018 at 4:29pm | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Thanks for the corrections to my corrections! I fixed my Hank Snow and Crystal Gayle data.

For Webb Pierce - not sure it was a typo. There are many instances where "last week" positions were typos around this time and ties were not uncommon on this chart. Plus the fact that it was #1 - kind of a big typo to make! Gotta believe that might have caught someone's eye. I generally go with the printed chart (unless it was retracted later) and lean towards the "last week" being the typo, but this one is subject to some interpretation.
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 20 April 2018 at 2:47am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman wrote:
Thanks for the corrections to my corrections! I fixed my Hank Snow and Crystal Gayle data.

For Webb Pierce - not sure it was a typo. There are many instances where "last week" positions were typos around this time and ties were not uncommon on this chart. Plus the fact that it was #1 - kind of a big typo to make! Gotta believe that might have caught someone's eye. I generally go with the printed chart (unless it was retracted later) and lean towards the "last week" being the typo, but this one is subject to some interpretation.


I forgot to mention that on our pasted-up chart, someone crossed off the printed 1 and wrote 2 in. So, that decision was made a long time ago. In addition, I did flip through the DJ charts and it appears that ties at #1 were not very common at all. For one that I noticed, the "last week" column on the next week's chart showed 1 for both songs.
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Chartman
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Posted: 20 April 2018 at 2:10pm | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Have a favor to ask. There is one and only one C&W chart I do not
have - the April 7, 1951 Disk Jockey chart. The April 14, 1951 chart has
9 of the 10 positions listed as last week’s position (assuming they are
correct) but is missing position #9. I filled in this space with my best
guess but am not 100% sure.

Do you know which song is listed at #9 on the 4/7/51 DJ chart?

Thanks

Edited by Chartman on 20 April 2018 at 7:30pm
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 21 April 2018 at 4:30am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman wrote:
Do you know which song is listed at #9 on the 4/7/51 DJ chart?

Thanks


Beautiful Brown Eyes - Jimmy Wakely with Les Baxter Chorus
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Chartman
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Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:03am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

That was my guess! Thanks for checking.
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Posted: 28 April 2018 at 8:24am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Between 3/3/51 and 6/7/52 all three Billboard Country charts at the bottom had 3 additional songs titled "Coming Up". Like an extension of the Top 10 (i.e. positions 11-13) - maybe you should think about including those in your new book. Noticed that in your Pop Hits 1940-1954 the same thing occurred in the mid 40's for the DJ and JB pop charts and you just considered them an extension of the primary chart.

I'll look at these and see if anything interesting pops up. I have them all except for that 4/7/51 DJ chart. I'm not even sure that chart was published. Couldn't find it in the most reliable sources (i.e. NY and London libraries, and American Radio History website).

Billboard also listed "Coming Up" for the R&B charts but only for 4 weeks in April/May 1952.
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JL328
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Posted: 28 April 2018 at 11:54pm | IP Logged Quote JL328

For what it's worth, the 4/7/51 Billboard is on google books. With a
quick skim, I don't see a CW DJ chart.
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Chartman
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Posted: 29 April 2018 at 8:32am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

JL328 wrote:
For what it's worth, the 4/7/51 Billboard is on google books. With a
quick skim, I don't see a CW DJ chart.


I've seen copies of the actual magazine at my sources - It's just this particular chart that I've never seen :( It's not on the source you quoted although there are some pages that are half-there which it may be on.
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Chartman
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Posted: 29 April 2018 at 8:38am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

For the "coming up" portion of the C&W charts 3/3/51 to 6/7/52:

There were 69 songs that did not appear on the Top 10 C&W charts - 6 of which appeared on the BB Pop charts and 3 which appeared on the Cash Box C&W JB charts, which were also only 10 positions deep.

There were 87 songs which did make the Top 10 - sometimes before, sometimes after, and sometimes before and after their Top 10 chart run. Similar to early bubbling under charts. There were a few weeks where the coming up songs were not shown on a particular chart and not always 3 deep but never more than 3. Of these 87, there were 26 that made the Top 10 of a different chart - i.e. the song made the Top 10 on the DJ chart but was shown as a coming up on the BS chart.

I can put a spreadsheet on zippyshare if you're interested.

Edited by Chartman on 29 April 2018 at 9:29am
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 29 April 2018 at 11:24am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman wrote:
For the "coming up" portion of the C&W charts 3/3/51 to 6/7/52:

There were 69 songs that did not appear on the Top 10 C&W charts - 6 of which appeared on the BB Pop charts and 3 which appeared on the Cash Box C&W JB charts, which were also only 10 positions deep.

There were 87 songs which did make the Top 10 - sometimes before, sometimes after, and sometimes before and after their Top 10 chart run. Similar to early bubbling under charts. There were a few weeks where the coming up songs were not shown on a particular chart and not always 3 deep but never more than 3. Of these 87, there were 26 that made the Top 10 of a different chart - i.e. the song made the Top 10 on the DJ chart but was shown as a coming up on the BS chart.

I can put a spreadsheet on zippyshare if you're interested.


Would like to see that, for sure!
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