Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Chat Board
 Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Subject Topic: Pop Annual 1955-2016 Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Paul Haney
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1003
Posted: 18 October 2017 at 11:35am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Many of those Voice songs are cover versions, so I'm not surprised they don't get any airplay. They are very much "here today, gone tomorrow."

Yet another reason to use the Airplay chart, IMO.

Edited by Paul Haney on 18 October 2017 at 11:36am
Back to Top View Paul Haney's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Haney
 
Hykker
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1048
Posted: 18 October 2017 at 3:55pm | IP Logged Quote Hykker

Sort of like a few years ago with the Glee cast.

Sure was simpler determining what the "hits" were in the
old days (even though the sales/airplay figures are a lot
more accurate now)!
Back to Top View Hykker's Profile Search for other posts by Hykker
 
eriejwg
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2485
Posted: 18 October 2017 at 5:54pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

I think a couple of the Glee Cast songs still get
airplay at Christmas for those all Christmas formats but
that's it.
Back to Top View eriejwg's Profile Search for other posts by eriejwg Visit eriejwg's Homepage
 
Chartman
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Posted: 19 October 2017 at 11:43am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Did a search for the acts that had the most songs on the HCS chart without making the Airplay chart:

The Voice Cast        105
Luke Bryan              23
Nashville Cast          18
Florida-Georgia Line 16
Blake Shelton          11
Cole Swindell            8
Kane Brown              7
Carrie Underwood     7
Everybody else       134

On the Airplay chart Thompson Square had 4 songs that made the Airplay chart but didn't make the HCS chart. 10 others had 3 and there were 20 Xmas songs that only made the Airplay chart. The Airplay chart's recurrent rules meant a lot of songs peaked in the top 3 only to drop off the chart in a couple of weeks. "You Look Like You Need A Break" by Justin Moore took 47 weeks to finally hit #1 on 10/8/16 only to drop completely off the chart the next week!

#1 songs per year per chart:
Year   Air   HCS
2013    31    11
2014    35    13
2015    38    11
2016    40     8

Signed, someone with way too much free time!

Edited by Chartman on 19 October 2017 at 11:52am
Back to Top View Chartman's Profile Search for other posts by Chartman
 
Chartman
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Posted: 19 October 2017 at 11:49am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Oops

Edited by Chartman on 19 October 2017 at 11:54am
Back to Top View Chartman's Profile Search for other posts by Chartman
 
Chartman
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Posted: 19 October 2017 at 11:51am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Oops again

Edited by Chartman on 19 October 2017 at 11:54am
Back to Top View Chartman's Profile Search for other posts by Chartman
 
Paul Haney
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1003
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 3:25am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman, that pretty much confirms my suspicions about the HCS chart. Between The Voice and Nashville, that's what, about 40% of the non-Airplay hits. The ones by the big name artists are album cuts that weren't promoted to radio. For instance, when Luke Bryan releases a new album, nearly all of the cuts make the HCS chart right away. The only ones that stick around for any length of time are the ones promoted to radio.

I can understand the reasoning behind Billboard's recurrent rules for the Airplay chart. It can take several months for a radio single to hit its peak. If those songs are never dropped, then the newer songs never get a chance to move up. IMO, a song that's been on the charts for nearly a year should be considered a recurrent!
Back to Top View Paul Haney's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Haney
 
jebsib
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 06 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 39
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 10:40am | IP Logged Quote jebsib

Paul, the book is great.

VERY glad the checkboxes are back; Very helpful for collectors.

Is there a way to provide feedback if we notice errors?
(eg - 1975 Isley Bros Fight the Power spent more than one week in top 10)


Back to Top View jebsib's Profile Search for other posts by jebsib
 
Paul Haney
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1003
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 10:56am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

That Isley Brothers error is a long story. I just went in and fixed it in the database.

Hopefully there aren't too many more mistakes, but if you do find any, just drop me a PM here or contact me at paul@recordresearch.com
Back to Top View Paul Haney's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Haney
 
Chartman
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Posted: 22 October 2017 at 4:38pm | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Paul Haney wrote:
Chartman, that pretty much confirms my suspicions about the HCS chart. Between The Voice and Nashville, that's what, about 40% of the non-Airplay hits. The ones by the big name artists are album cuts that weren't promoted to radio. For instance, when Luke Bryan releases a new album, nearly all of the cuts make the HCS chart right away. The only ones that stick around for any length of time are the ones promoted to radio.


Take a look at those songs on the Hot 100 (2016 from the Pop Annual) out of 419 songs, 98 only charted for one week, while 46 others only charted for two weeks. That's 34% of the total. Some reasons, when a pop star passes many download a few of their previous hits on iTunes (i.e. Prince, David Bowie) and when a star release a new album, nearly all of the cuts make the Hot 100 right away. Examples include Beyoncé, J. Cole, Drake, Ariana Grande, Meek Mill, The Weeknd and Kanye West.

On 4/8/2017 Drake releases a new album and all of a sudden he has 21 new "hits" on the Hot 100, all peaked on the entry date and 14 are gone in two weeks or less.

Of course there's the infamous Glee Cast. 208 Hot 100 and 75 bubbling under entries during their career. All but 35 of these charted for only one week.

The same issues that plaque the HCS also are inherit in the Hot 100. In fact many of my colleagues believe the Hot 100 has become a joke. Think there is a better chart that represents the state of popular music than the Hot 100?

Edited by Chartman on 22 October 2017 at 4:38pm
Back to Top View Chartman's Profile Search for other posts by Chartman
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5109
Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:15pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Why would you say it's a joke? What can be said today that cannot be
said in the past is that the Hot 100 more accurately reflects which
songs people are listening to the most right now. Some of those
songs are popular only temporarily, like the album cuts, while others
stick around for many weeks, like the airplay hits. I see nothing wrong
with this, but you can't compare today's charts with those of the past
when singles were pressed on physical media.

Edited by aaronk on 22 October 2017 at 6:15pm


__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
EdisonLite
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1622
Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:25pm | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

I get what you're saying, Aaron. But while the current Hot 100 rules do reflect the moment, I know a lot of professionals in the music business have a problem with the way it's compiled, and I completely understand that side, too. Let's say you're a label and you have a single you're promoting and it's bulleted at #75. The next week, it has more airplay and sales but drops 22 notches because, say, a Drake album was released that week and it has 22 debuts. Something like that hurts the momentum of a single, which will likely move up somewhat the next week, but this can repeat a few weeks later when another superstar's album comes out. I feel the current rules cause all sorts of chaotic movements. I think it's ok to have a chart like this - as a secondary chart in Billboard; call it a Pan-US chart - like Billboard used to have the Pan-European chart in their international section. But I think Billboard should have a main chart that only includes songs that labels are promoting as singles (in some way).

Edited by EdisonLite on 22 October 2017 at 6:27pm
Back to Top View EdisonLite's Profile Search for other posts by EdisonLite Visit EdisonLite's Homepage
 
Santi Paradoa
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 17 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 744
Posted: 22 October 2017 at 6:28pm | IP Logged Quote Santi Paradoa

I agree with Aaron completely. No way you can compare the charts of 2017 with those from decades back. The music business has evolved and changed so much in recent years. Airplay seems to be more important than ever before.

__________________
Santi Paradoa
Miami, Florida
Back to Top View Santi Paradoa's Profile Search for other posts by Santi Paradoa
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5109
Posted: 22 October 2017 at 7:11pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

EdisonLite wrote:
I think Billboard should have a main chart that only
includes songs that labels are promoting as singles (in some way).

Do they no longer have a Hot 100 Airplay chart? It seems this would be the
more "traditional" chart that reflects what record labels are promoting to radio.
But frankly, if I was in charge at Drake's record label, I'd be happy as can be to
see 22 different Drake cuts make the Hot 100 upon the album's debut.

Edited by aaronk on 22 October 2017 at 7:14pm


__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Chartman
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Posted: 22 October 2017 at 8:17pm | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Santi Paradoa wrote:
I agree with Aaron completely. No way you
can compare the charts of 2017 with those from decades back. The
music business has evolved and changed so much in recent years.
Airplay seems to be more important than ever before.

Exactly my point, but the Hot 100 doesn’t always reflect that. Not to
pick on Drake but most of his songs received little or no AirPlay - that’s
why their chart life was abbreviated. And it seems that people are
primarily just buying the album but each song is treated as if people
were purchasing that one specifically. After a week or two the album
sales drop dramatically which is reflected in the Billboard 200. And
magically all of those “hits” are also gone. Maybe a majority of Drake’s
song were falsely charted. That’s one reason why some of my
colleagues don’t believe the Hot 100.

Over in the U.K. they follow similar chart logic as the Hot 100. A new Ed
Sheeran album came out and not only did they all make the chart, but I
think he occupied something like 17 of the top 20. That caused a chart
rule change. Something like only 5 songs could make the chart.

Of course, I always get upset when Billboard compares chart
accomplishments of the past 10-15 years with those of the first 30
years or so if the chart. Totally different chart philosophies.

Edited by Chartman on 22 October 2017 at 8:24pm
Back to Top View Chartman's Profile Search for other posts by Chartman
 
Paul Haney
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1003
Posted: 23 October 2017 at 4:20am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Some very interesting points being discussed here.

The difference between the Hot 100 and the whole Country situation is that the Hot 100 has been the Hot 100 since August 1958. That's nearly 60 years! The HCS chart was started in October 2012. Prior to that the Country Airplay chart WAS the HCS chart, and for over 20 years at that.

There have always been tweaks to the Hot 100 formula over the years. Granted, the changes made in recent years are much bigger in scope, but the options for people to consume music these days are also much bigger. If this technology had been around in the 1960s, I'm sure that just about every Beatles album cut, for instance, would've charted. Billboard did try the Pop 100 chart, but they discontinued it due to lack of interest.

In addition to the Hot 100, I always followed the Radio & Records CHR chart, because that one gave a better picture of what I was actually hearing on the radio. With so many different charts published by Billboard each week, it's pretty easy to follow which ones you feel are the best.
Back to Top View Paul Haney's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Haney
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5109
Posted: 23 October 2017 at 5:28am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Chartman wrote:
[QUOTE=Santi Paradoa] And it seems that people are
primarily just buying the album but each song is treated as if people
were purchasing that one specifically.

I would be curious to know if this is true. Does a complete album purchase
also count a "single" sale for each cut? Given the way most people consume
music these days, it wouldn't surprise me if most are just cherry picking tracks
from new albums rather than buying the whole thing.

Streaming data gets incorporated into the Hot 100, too, right? That is another
explanation for why album cuts temporarily appear on the chart after a hot new
release. Again, this doesn't really bother me, because it is accurately showing
what's popular in the current week.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Chartman
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 65
Posted: 23 October 2017 at 8:41am | IP Logged Quote Chartman

Paul Haney wrote:

In addition to the Hot 100, I always followed the
Radio & Records CHR chart, because that one gave a
better picture of what I was actually hearing on the
radio. With so many different charts published by
Billboard each week, it's pretty easy to follow which
ones you feel are the best.


I know American Top 40 started switching which chart
they were using for their countdown because the Hot
100 just wasn't reflecting what their subscriber base
was listening to.

Also remember the the Pop Singles book started showing
Airplay Only and Sales Only singles for those songs
that didn't make the Hot 100 but charted on the other
charts. Then you got rid of the Sales Only which was
the proper move because these were so minor and not
really "hits" in any form of the word. Just like many
of those songs that chart on the Hot 100 due solely to
digital downloads now!

You kept the Airplay Only songs for 1987-1998 until
these songs were eligible to make the Hot 100, however
you treated the Airplay peak positions as equivalent
to the Hot 100. Not really a fan of that decision. I
know "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia and "Iris" by The Goo
Goo Dolls actually made the Hot 100 but you have them
listed as peaking at #1 for 11 and 18 weeks
respectively based solely on Airplay. And then for
1996 you have "Don't Speak" by No Doubt as the top
song of the year - 16 weeks at #1 on the Airplay chart
with "Macarena" at #2 - only 14 weeks at #1 on the Hot
100 plus platinum X 4 seller. Not sure about that!?
Back to Top View Chartman's Profile Search for other posts by Chartman
 
Paul Haney
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1003
Posted: 23 October 2017 at 8:56am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

aaronk wrote:
Streaming data gets incorporated into the Hot 100, too, right?


Yes, streaming has been incorporated since 2007 and YouTube views since 2013.
Back to Top View Paul Haney's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Haney
 
Paul Haney
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 01 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1003
Posted: 23 October 2017 at 9:05am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Chartman wrote:
I know American Top 40 started switching which chart
they were using for their countdown because the Hot
100 just wasn't reflecting what their subscriber base
was listening to.

Also remember the the Pop Singles book started showing
Airplay Only and Sales Only singles for those songs
that didn't make the Hot 100 but charted on the other
charts. Then you got rid of the Sales Only which was
the proper move because these were so minor and not
really "hits" in any form of the word. Just like many
of those songs that chart on the Hot 100 due solely to
digital downloads now!

You kept the Airplay Only songs for 1987-1998 until
these songs were eligible to make the Hot 100, however
you treated the Airplay peak positions as equivalent
to the Hot 100. Not really a fan of that decision. I
know "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia and "Iris" by The Goo
Goo Dolls actually made the Hot 100 but you have them
listed as peaking at #1 for 11 and 18 weeks
respectively based solely on Airplay. And then for
1996 you have "Don't Speak" by No Doubt as the top
song of the year - 16 weeks at #1 on the Airplay chart
with "Macarena" at #2 - only 14 weeks at #1 on the Hot
100 plus platinum X 4 seller. Not sure about that!?


But, unlike those Sales-only hits of the CD singles era, those downloads are selling enough to get the songs on the Hot 100.

There were so many HUGE hits that were Airplay-only cuts, especially during the 1990s, that we had to acknowledge them somehow. As long as we designate them with the special symbol, the reader can either use them or ignore them. BTW, both "Torn" and "Iris" were at the end of their Airplay runs when they were suddenly eligible for the Hot 100. If we listed "Torn" as peaking at #42, it would raise some serious questions.

Edited by Paul Haney on 23 October 2017 at 9:06am
Back to Top View Paul Haney's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Haney
 

<< Prev Page of 7 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.1250 seconds.