Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Chat Board
 Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Subject Topic: Elton John - Your Song Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
davidclark
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 852
Posted: 16 May 2016 at 10:54pm | IP Logged Quote davidclark

I have two stereo mixes of this track - one with the drum track split left and
right (my source: "Elton John" - remastered 1999, w/ Bonus Tracks), the other
with it in the centre (my source: "Greatest Hits" 1987 CD issue of 1974 LP).
Anyone know which is the original (I suspect the split version) and when the
remix first appeared (I suspect on 1974 "Greatest Hits" LP)?

Edited by davidclark on 16 May 2016 at 10:55pm


__________________
dc1
Back to Top View davidclark's Profile Search for other posts by davidclark
 
AndrewChouffi
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 726
Posted: 17 May 2016 at 6:35am | IP Logged Quote AndrewChouffi

To davidclark:

I don't know the answer to your question, but I pulled out my old vinyl copies of both US albums and they BOTH have Barry Morgan's drums panned thusly:

Snare to the left, hi-hat to the center, kick to the right.

Andy
Back to Top View AndrewChouffi's Profile Search for other posts by AndrewChouffi
 
davidclark
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 17 November 2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 852
Posted: 17 May 2016 at 6:45am | IP Logged Quote davidclark

Thanks, Andy. My vinyl copy of "Greatest Hits" is long gone, so I am glad to
know you have one. So, maybe the remix came in the CD era.

__________________
dc1
Back to Top View davidclark's Profile Search for other posts by davidclark
 
Indy500
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 29 January 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 337
Posted: 17 May 2016 at 2:37pm | IP Logged Quote Indy500

The 95/96 reissues were all remixed by Gus Dudgeon from the master tapes; though he tried to remain loyal to the original mixes there are subtle changes. This may date the change.

Wish we had the mono 45 mix available.

Edited by Indy500 on 17 May 2016 at 2:39pm
Back to Top View Indy500's Profile Search for other posts by Indy500
 
MMathews
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 836
Posted: 17 May 2016 at 8:00pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

David, that remix you describe with the drums in the
center dates back the to the 1983 European album "The
Superior Sound Of Elton John 1970-1975" on DJM records.
I bought it on import vinyl in 1985. The top of the cover
says "remixed from the original multi-tracks into a new
dimension of sound." Later on a buddy graciously burned
me a copy of the CD.

Some of these remixes have since leaked onto other
CD's..particularly "Daniel" which was presented in its
original form, without the re-editing that was done for
the hit release. I didn't know "Your Song" also appeared
elsewhere.
The sound quality is amazing but overly "crisp" .. they
really topped out the hi-end, I think to demonstrate how
well these tracks were engineered. I particularly enjoy
the remix of "Funeral For a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding."

RE: Your Song MONO 45 mix .. this should have been
a bonus track on the album re-issue. Thanks to Jim I only
just recently heard the mono mix for the first time. It's
quite different! The strings are mixed differently and
the most noticeable thing is added reverb on his voice.
Then starting with the words "I sat on the roof" .. they
cranked the reverb up to high so it has a very "60's"
feel to it.
That now leaves me curious about his other few mono 45's.
My next one to seek out will be "Tiny Dancer".

[Edit: thanks to Jim I now know "Tiny Dancer" had no mono
mix, not even on the promo... so nothing to report there]

MM

Edited by MMathews on 19 May 2016 at 1:55am
Back to Top View MMathews's Profile Search for other posts by MMathews
 
JL328
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 06 May 2011
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 198
Posted: 18 May 2016 at 12:23pm | IP Logged Quote JL328

I notice that the database listing for this song doesn't show any version
designations. I take it the policy is that the mono/stereo difference
between a 45 and a LP version (especially between 1968 and 1975
when it happened all the time) doesn't warrant a note in the database.
But the mono 45 version here has a ton of reverb compared to the
stereo LP version as well. Just curious where the line is on LP/45
version designations when the primary difference is mono vs stereo,
but there's no different vocals or instrumentation.
Back to Top View JL328's Profile Search for other posts by JL328
 
Pat Downey
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 October 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1698
Posted: 20 May 2016 at 10:57am | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

This "Your Song" issue was just called to my attention recently and after comparing the mono 45 vs the stereo LP I do detect some noticeable reverb on the 45 so after mulling over whether this should be a LP mix or LP version for several days now I have decided to classify every entry as LP version. Like Mark, I am surprised that this song has yet to appear in the mono 45 version on compact disc yet.

Edited by Pat Downey on 20 May 2016 at 10:58am
Back to Top View Pat Downey's Profile Search for other posts by Pat Downey
 
Bill Cahill
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 27 June 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 557
Posted: 21 May 2016 at 4:29am | IP Logged Quote Bill Cahill

I believe that the song "Friends" has similar
differences. The mono 45 features reverb not heard on
the stereo mix. Although the stereo mix had OTHER
problems. The parent album was screwed up, it sounds
like for the movie soundtrack "Friends", Paramount (the
label) didn't notice that the song was recorded with
dolby.. so the LP mix sure sounds like the result of a
recording mastered WITHOUT the decoding. Very splashy
with odd compression. This was corrected in the CD era.
If this warrants further discussion we can start a
"Friends" string, I didn't find one.
Back to Top View Bill Cahill's Profile Search for other posts by Bill Cahill
 
AndrewChouffi
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 726
Posted: 21 May 2016 at 5:09am | IP Logged Quote AndrewChouffi

To Bill Cahill:

The stereo version of "Friends" with the undecoded Dolby WAS actually issued in the US in 1985 on the MCA Elton John CD 'Love Songs'. Sounding terrible, but reasonably faithful to the Paramount vinyl.

The first issue of the song "Friends" in the US with properly decoded Dolby was on the CD 'Rare Masters' released in 1992.

Andy

Edited by AndrewChouffi on 21 May 2016 at 12:39pm
Back to Top View AndrewChouffi's Profile Search for other posts by AndrewChouffi
 
Brian W.
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2232
Posted: 21 May 2016 at 5:10am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

Indy500 wrote:
The 95/96 reissues were all remixed by
Gus Dudgeon from the master tapes; though he tried to
remain loyal to the original mixes there are subtle
changes. This may date the change.

Wish we had the mono 45 mix available.


The Gus Dudgeon remasters were not remixed. This was in
the liner notes for all of them:

"All the tapes used to create these new masters are the
original mixes. However, due to the fact that many of the
tapes are at least 25 years old, they have been "softened
up" to varying degrees. So, the sound has been passed
through the most up to date digital processing equipment,
at 20 Bit Resolution; namely The Sadie Digital System and
Prism Super Noise Shaper. The effect is purely to
"enhance" rather than "colour" the sound."
Back to Top View Brian W.'s Profile Search for other posts by Brian W.
 
JL328
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 06 May 2011
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 198
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 8:12am | IP Logged Quote JL328

JL328 wrote:
Just curious where the line is on LP/45
version designations when the primary difference is mono vs stereo,
but there's no different vocals or instrumentation.
If I may
rephrase this question...does the lack of a version designation in
instances where the LP was in stereo but the 45 was in mono indicate
that the mono version of the 45 is merely a fold-down of the stereo
version? Or is that not necessarily the case?

Edited by JL328 on 22 May 2016 at 8:13am
Back to Top View JL328's Profile Search for other posts by JL328
 
Pat Downey
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 October 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1698
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 9:20am | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

I do not use a "version" designation unless there is a rather significant mix or instrumentation difference between the LP and 45 version. A good example is the "Your Song" situation where I felt there was significant enough reverb added to the 45 to warrant a 45 version comment. Of course now you are going to ask how I define "significant" and there are no hard and fast rules that I apply -- it is always subjective. Are you an attorney by trade by any chance?
Back to Top View Pat Downey's Profile Search for other posts by Pat Downey
 
Indy500
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 29 January 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 337
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 1:45pm | IP Logged Quote Indy500

Brian W. wrote:
Indy500 wrote:
The 95/96 reissues were all remixed by
Gus Dudgeon from the master tapes; though he tried to
remain loyal to the original mixes there are subtle
changes. This may date the change.

Wish we had the mono 45 mix available.


The Gus Dudgeon remasters were not remixed. This was in
the liner notes for all of them:

"All the tapes used to create these new masters are the
original mixes. However, due to the fact that many of the
tapes are at least 25 years old, they have been "softened
up" to varying degrees. So, the sound has been passed
through the most up to date digital processing equipment,
at 20 Bit Resolution; namely The Sadie Digital System and
Prism Super Noise Shaper. The effect is purely to
"enhance" rather than "colour" the sound."


You're right about that quote but I swear I remember an interview in ICE magazine with Gus that he went back to the master tapes and, using his original mixing notes, mixed the albums again. I can tell you that the live album Here An There has small differences like the kid yelling "Elton" at the beginning of Funeral For A Friend almost disappearing from the CD remaster.

Anyway I'd bet "The Superior Sound of Elton John" is actually the source of the alternate mix of Your Song.

Edited by Indy500 on 22 May 2016 at 1:59pm
Back to Top View Indy500's Profile Search for other posts by Indy500
 
Bill Cahill
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 27 June 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 557
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 3:33pm | IP Logged Quote Bill Cahill

I agree that "Your Song" was lifted from "The Superior Sound of Elton John" for the Elton John Greatest Hits CD. The original Elton
John Greatest Hits vinyl was equalized very hot on the high end, and that master was probably deemed unacceptable for CD release. My
money is on Steve Hoffman (although not credited) mastering "Greatest Hits", and he grabbed the "Superior Sound" mix of "Your Song",
just like he did with "Daniel" on that Dunhill compilation.
Back to Top View Bill Cahill's Profile Search for other posts by Bill Cahill
 
eriejwg
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2708
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 3:52pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Any idea if his 2 other Uni songs, "Levon" and "Tiny
Dancer" were dedicated mono mixes?
Back to Top View eriejwg's Profile Search for other posts by eriejwg Visit eriejwg's Homepage
 
aaronk
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5492
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 4:21pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

John, Mark edited his post above to add that no mono version exists for "Tiny Dancer," even on the promo 45.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
aaronk
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5492
Posted: 22 May 2016 at 4:27pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

JL328 wrote:
If I may rephrase this question...does the lack of a version designation in instances where the LP was in stereo but the 45 was in mono indicate that the mono version of the 45 is merely a fold-down of the stereo version? Or is that not necessarily the case?

We all wish it were that simple! Unfortunately, there are many cases in the database where a dedicated mono mix does not prompt a "45/LP version" designation if there is no "significant difference" (which is, as Pat says, at his subjective conclusion) between the mono and stereo. In a nutshell, there has to be something added to or subtracted from the mix, or an edit within the song, to get a "version" designation.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Bill Cahill
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 27 June 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 557
Posted: 24 May 2016 at 4:43am | IP Logged Quote Bill Cahill

Levon is clearly a dedicated mono mix on the 45. But I don't hear anything that is added or missing in the 45 mix in comparison to the stereo mix. The
single features the piano boosted here and there, as well as other instruments adjusted up and down, it's a more aggressive mix in general which gives the
single more "punch". No extra reverb. Anyone want to start an Elton singles thread?
Back to Top View Bill Cahill's Profile Search for other posts by Bill Cahill
 
Fastphilly
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 24 May 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 23
Posted: 24 May 2016 at 10:25am | IP Logged Quote Fastphilly

aaronk wrote:
John, Mark edited his post above to add that no
mono version exists for "Tiny Dancer," even on the promo 45.


I have a good many of EJ's promo 45's and the Uni promos I have are
all stereo. Though my "Tiny Dancer" does contain a shorter edit that I
believe to be promo only. The only mono promo I have is "Crocodile
Rock" b/w Elderberry Wine" both sides are mono. Ever stock copy I
have seen are mixed in stereo
Back to Top View Fastphilly's Profile Search for other posts by Fastphilly
 
jimct
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 07 April 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3906
Posted: 24 May 2016 at 1:16pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

Fastphilly wrote:
I have a good many of EJ's promo 45's and the Uni
promos I have are all stereo. Though my "Tiny Dancer" does contain a
shorter edit that I believe to be promo only. The only mono promo I have
is "Crocodile Rock" b/w Elderberry Wine" both sides are mono. Ever stock
copy I have seen are mixed in stereo
                                                             
       
You must be missing some of his UNI promo 45s then, Fastphilly, because
although both my U.S. promo 45s for "Border Song" (UNI 55246; BB #92,
8/70) and the earlier U.S. 45 issue for it, (as Congress 6022, in 4/70) both
state and are stereo, "Friends" (UNI 55277) and "Levon" (UNI 55314) are
both in mono. UNI stock 45s for all three songs mentioned in this
paragraph were issued in mono. Also, mono on at least one promo 45
side were included on the non-UNI promos "Lady Samantha" (DJM 70008)
(12/68) & (Congress 6017) (3/70) and "From Denver To L.A." (Viking
1010) (5/70).

And although "Crocodile Rock" (MCA 40000) is the only mono-only promo
45 that I know of on that label, I do also own mono/stereo MCA promo
45s for "Daniel" (MCA 40046), "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" (MCA 40148),
"Step Into Christmas" (MCA 65018), "Bennie And The Jets" (MCA 40198),
and "Philadelphia Freedom" (MCA 40364). I have also pulled/checked all
my other Elton John MCA promo 45s up to and including 1980 (in addition
to the 1975 Polydor PRO-002 promo of "Pinball Wizard"), and they are all
stereo only.

Edited by jimct on 14 June 2016 at 9:48am
Back to Top View jimct's Profile Search for other posts by jimct
 

Page of 2 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.0938 seconds.