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Subject Topic: Barbra Streisand "Promises" Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michaeldila
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Posted: 29 July 2014 at 4:43pm | IP Logged Quote Michaeldila

hi. can anyone tell me if the single version of this song can be re-created
using the lp version? thanks.
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MMathews
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Posted: 30 July 2014 at 11:06pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Well, I was going to report that as far I recalled, the
45 was merely an early fade of the LP version. But I
bought this LP years later, so I never actually compared
the two before.
It turns out you cannot create the single from the album,
they are completely different mixes.

A few things i noticed: the drums on the album have a lot
of reverb, the 45 drums do not. Her vocals are louder on
the album, lower on the 45. In the intro the LP has a
loud synth playing with the horn, but that's almost mixed
out of the 45. Too many other minor differences to list.

I've never noticed this song on any of her comps, so I
guess the best source for this 45 would be a mint 45.

Side note; FWIW, I think the LP version has a "fuller"
sound, and the kick drum is louder so you feel the beat
more. So I think the LP mix would have sounded better on
radio. I'm not sure what they were going for in the 45
mix. Nonetheless, the 45 is what I remember hearing, for
this song's short radio run. MM

MM
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 31 July 2014 at 11:20am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

Very interesting, Mark. This WOULD be a song (single mix) I'd ask my Sony contact to release in some form - but Barbra Streisand is one of the 2 or 3 "off-limits" artists that we can't even request releases for (Neil Diamond being another.)

So, Mark, since this mix is better in your opinion, what would I have to do to the album version to be parallel to the single version - in other words, what edits or what early fade would I have to do to the album version to have the structure and length of the single (albeit without that mix)?
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Michaeldila
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Posted: 31 July 2014 at 6:24pm | IP Logged Quote Michaeldila

hi mark, thanks for the info. edison basically asked the question i wanted to
know about making a "sort-of" single edit using the lp version. also there is
an "extended" version on youtube that runs 5:55 (which is what it also says
on the photo of the 12" vinyl in said video). it sounds like it is slightly sped
up and is missing some instruments (a lot dryer than the regular lp
version)...i am guessing the 45 mix could be an edit of this version?
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Hykker
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Posted: 01 August 2014 at 7:10am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

EdisonLite wrote:
Very interesting, Mark. This WOULD be a
song (single mix) I'd ask my Sony contact to release in
some form - but Barbra Streisand is one of the 2 or 3 "off-
limits" artists that we can't even request releases for
(Neil Diamond being another.)


Why is that? Do these artists so tightly control their
catalog that the label has no say whatsoever on releases?
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Glenpwood
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Posted: 01 August 2014 at 9:02am | IP Logged Quote Glenpwood

Hykker wrote:
EdisonLite wrote:
Very interesting, Mark. This WOULD be a
song (single mix) I'd ask my Sony contact to release in
some form - but Barbra Streisand is one of the 2 or 3 "off-
limits" artists that we can't even request releases for
(Neil Diamond being another.)


Why is that? Do these artists so tightly control their
catalog that the label has no say whatsoever on releases?


Babs has it in her contract that nothing gets released from her catalog without her consent. This is why the original hit 45 mix of The Way We Were remains unreleased to this day. Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are the other two Sony acts that have been problematic for us collectors as well.....

I never understood why they buried her vocal in the mix. Takes all the life out of it. Had they just issued the LP Mix instead I'm willing to bet it would've charted much stronger.

Edited by Glenpwood on 01 August 2014 at 9:12am
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 01 August 2014 at 11:30am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

Glen answered it. Barry Manilow and Bruce Springsteen are two other ones that have a say in their old releases. With Barbra, Neil & Bruce, part of it has to do with the fact that they are current artists on Sony. With Barry and Billy, they're not - but all of them are such big superstars that at some point (I presume) they had their contracts modified so they have a say on what older catalog gets released.

Edited by EdisonLite on 02 August 2014 at 9:23am
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MMathews
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Posted: 02 August 2014 at 2:00am | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Thanks for the heads-up on the 12" being on youtube. I
used to own it, and I now was wondering what mix was on
the 12". It is indeed the 45 mix. The 45 is sped up also
and yes, has that dry, sparse sound to it.
So yes, the 45 can be edited from the 12" single.

From the LP version, there would be no edits, you just
need to fade it early. Start your fade around 3:42 and
end it around 3:54. Remember the 45 is sped up, so it
runs 3:52.

Note tho, if one is making the 45 from the 12" single,
there would be an edit needed because the 12" version
loops a chorus twice (a very lazy way to extend it I
think).

MM
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 02 August 2014 at 6:53am | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

EdisonLite wrote:
With Barbra, Neil & Bruce, part of it has to do with the fact that they are current artists on Sony.


Gordon, Neil signed with Universal's Capitol label back in January. The deal brought his entire Bang, Uni/MCA and Columbia/Sony catalogs together under one roof (or dome) for the first time.   
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 02 August 2014 at 9:26am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

So are you saying that since January, Universal owns all of Neil's Columbia material, and NOT Columbia? In this case, Sony wouldn't be able to put Neil's stuff at all. And this is a shame because Universal is even less likely to care about putting out his single mixes (like "I Dreamed a Dream" and "On the Way to the Sky") which have never seen the light of day on CD.
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 02 August 2014 at 12:40pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

In a nutshell, Neil Diamond's Columbia catalog is no longer available through Columbia/Sony.

Just to clarify the ownership of Neil Diamond's master recordings, Neil does not presently own his Uni/MCA masters (Universal does), but he does own all of his Bang/Columbia/Sony masters released on Columbia until January, 2014. His The Jazz Singer LP and its associated singles - which were originally issued on Capitol - all state "(P)1980 Neil Diamond" on the labels, so he's always owned the masters to those, too. After a few years, Neil took those Capitol tracks over to Columbia.

Just as Paul McCartney's back catalog has followed his label-hopping from Capitol to Columbia, back to Capitol and his present stop at Concord/Hear Music, Neil's back catalog - including the Columbia/Sony masters - now resides with Capitol. Not that that's necessarily a huge change, since Capitol's chairman and CEO Steve Barnett previously worked with Neil at Columbia up until late 2012 (and was one of the chief architects in luring Neil over to the label.)

Neil's Capitol All-Time Greatest Hits CD, released less than a month ago, includes material from all three phases of his catalog.

Here's a link to the full Billboard story from last January:

http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/record-labels/587 6964/neil-diamond-signs-with-capitol-records-exclusive

Edited by Yah Shure on 02 August 2014 at 1:23pm
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 02 August 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

Thanks for the info. Interesting. BTW, I tried the link but it doesn't work.

Edited by EdisonLite on 02 August 2014 at 1:18pm
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 02 August 2014 at 1:26pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Sorry about that, Gordon. There's a space between the numbers in the link I posted which I can't seem to eliminate. Either copy it and paste it, then remove the space between the "587" and "6964", or do what I originally did: Google "Neil Diamond signs with Capitol"

Edited by Yah Shure on 02 August 2014 at 1:27pm
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Michaeldila
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Posted: 07 August 2014 at 6:20pm | IP Logged Quote Michaeldila

thanks for the info, MM.
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Michaeldila
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Posted: 21 January 2020 at 4:42pm | IP Logged Quote Michaeldila

the b-side of "promises" has an edit of "make it like memory" that's
almost a full four minutes shorter than the version on the 'guilty'
album....does anyone know the edit points of this "short version"...?
thanks
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Loveland
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Posted: 25 January 2020 at 11:17am | IP Logged Quote Loveland

Pretty much every artist that has made it
eventually obtains complete artistic freedom,
i.e. final say on everything; i.e. Madge, MJ,
Prince, Kylie... (which is the reason why
we'll probably never hear her first
deConstruction sessions with Saint Etienne
and Rapino Brothers).

Once in a blue moon, you get debut artists
with total creative control from the gate,
such as P!nk. While she might like dance
music, she loathes mixes of her tracks. She
put the kibosh on club mixes starting with
Just Like A Pill and Feel Good Time. Starting
with her third album, Arista UK
commissioning all club mixes of her songs,
which in turn were then promoted by Arista in
the US. Clearly a loophole in her contract.

Edited by Loveland on 25 January 2020 at 11:18am
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