| Author |
|
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 8:40pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The song "Where Were You When I Needed You" by Grass Roots has been recorded at least three times by the band. Lead singers on each one are PF Sloan, Willie Fulton, and Rob Grill.
Can someone please assist with sorting out the various recordings and where they appear? I was told today that the promo 45 actually contains PF Sloan on lead vocals, while the commercial 45 has Willie Fulton. I think Rob Grill's version only appeared on LP (not 45), which might be the one that Pat labels as "Let's Live For Today vinyl LP version."
The only thing I can say for sure is that the commercial 45's vocals match the vocals from the CD "Anthology 1965-1975."
Edited by aaronk on 15 July 2013 at 8:41pm
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 10:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Aaron, I posed that very question on the xmfan chat board when the song was played during the final airing of XM's "IT" top 40 marathon back in 2007. The only thing that seemed to emerge was that the original demo - with P.F. Sloan's lead vocal - was first aired on Burbank's KBLA. The positive reaction convinced Dunhill that it might have a hit on its hands, but the company refused to allow Phil and Steve Barri go out on tour as the Grass Roots, since they were signed as songwriters. Enter the ex-Bedouins, and theirs was the single. To my ears, I could've sworn that it was Phil's lead on Dunhill 4029, but I read an interview a few years back in which he insisted that it was, in fact, Bill Fulton's lead on the 45. The clip that ran on Dick Clark's Where The Action Is TV show featured Fulton lip-synching with the rest of the short-lived second 'Roots lineup.
I bought the stereo Let's Live For Today LP when it was released in 1967, and immediately detected a difference, although I didn't have the ability to compare it with the 45 in those days. Grill seemed to attack the song like a scythe, compared to Fulton's smooth delivery.
The Anthology 1965-1975 CD does feature the same vocal as the 45, but the extra reverb on the stereo mix really robs the track of its punch.
Rob Grill's slower (and smoother) 1979 solo remake from Uprooted was issued as a single on Mercury 76078.
Soooo.... who sang lead on the earlier "Mr. Jones", then? :)
BTW: I have both the DJ and stock Dunhill 4029 45. They're identical. The demo never made it to wax or any other L.A. radio outlet beyond KBLA.
Edited by Yah Shure on 15 July 2013 at 10:16pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 10:17pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
John, you are amazing! Thank you so much for helping to clear this up, sir.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 10:26pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The other reason I'd incorrectly assumed it was Phil's lead on the 45 was his original version of "A Melody For You" (Dunhill 4054), which preceded the version issued by the Grass Roots on Dunhill 4122. The instrumental backing tracks aren't the same; the 'Roots version has a much more polished break than Phil's original. But one thing is obvious: Phil's vocal on "Melody" is an uncanny dead-ringer for Bill Fulton's on "Where Were You."
Actually, that very close similarity in voices may explain why there's so much confusion over the "Where Were You" lead vocals.
Edited by Yah Shure on 15 July 2013 at 10:32pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
The only other (mis)information that seems to be floating around is this, from Wikipedia, in regards to the full-length album of the same name:
Quote:
| The 12-track album featured three songs sung by Fulton and the rest by Sloan, including Sloan's original single version of "Where Were You When I Needed You" instead of Fulton's, but it failed to chart. |
|
|
.
Does anyone have the debut LP that can verify if it does indeed have Sloan's vocals or if it's Fulton singing lead like on the 45?
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 11:08pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Aaron,I have the Varese Vintage CD reissue of the Where Were You When I Needed You album (with bonus tracks) and it's the same as the stereo Fulton version on the Rhino Anthology CD. There's no other version of the song on the CD.
Edited by Yah Shure on 15 July 2013 at 11:09pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 15 July 2013 at 11:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Those crazy Wikipedia people...
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TomDiehl1
MusicFan
Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 12:23am | IP Logged
|
|
|
P.F. Sloan has stated on the Forgotten Hits website that he never sang on the song Where Were You When I needed You. There are two commercial versions, the Fulton version and the Grill version. There is no phantom third version with Sloan's vocals....unless you count his original demo recording of the song, which was just him and a guitar, not a full production (and his voice on it only slightly resembles Bill Fulton's take on the song).
Yes, Sloan sang on Mr. Jones as well as some of the other singles and album tracks. If Dunhill didn't want him to sing lead on the songs because he couldn't tour behind them, why issue the songs as The Grass Roots to begin with?
For what it's worth, the Forgotten Hits website has been unable to track down Bill Fulton to get his side of the story...
Edited by TomDiehl1 on 16 July 2013 at 3:59pm
__________________
Live in stereo.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jimct
MusicFan
Joined: 07 April 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3906
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 1:52am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Tom, I think you may have mis-read some part of this thread. Because in it,
neither Aaron nor Yah Shure had ever asked any questions about, or made
any statements/claims, regarding the specific Grass Roots 45 track, "Let's
Live For Today." They've been speaking about a different GR song entirely.
The only two 45 tracks discussed here have been the topic of this thread,
with Yah Shure also making a quick reference to "A Melody For You". And
him comparing Fulton's vocals to Rob Grill's vocals on "Where Were You....",
which was first issued on their "Let's Live For Today" album......
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 7:24am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Right, the references upthread about the Let's Live For Today vinyl LP were specifically about the version of "Where Were You" with Rob Grill's new vocal, which made its first appearance on that album, and not that album's title track.
Adding to the confusion regarding who sang lead on the "Where Were You" single is this statement from Andrew Sandoval's liner notes on the Varese Vintage Where Were You When I Needed You CD:
In May of 1966, Dunhill released a preview single from the album, Sloan & Barri's original 1965 recording of "Where Were You When I Needed You." Although the recording had been sitting around for the better part of a year, this did not hinder the song's obvious chart potential and the record became the Grass Roots' first top 40 hit in June of '66.
It seems Phil Sloan has made contradictory statements about exactly who did the honors. In the interview I'd read where Sloan insisted Fulton had sung lead, he'd reinforced his assertion by adding that the sheet music for the song featured a photo of the Fulton lineup of the band. Perhaps this one is destined to remain a mystery.
Tom, I never said that Dunhill didn't want him (Phil) to sing lead on the songs because he couldn't tour behind them. I said that Dunhill didn't want the duo to tour, which would have taken them away from their songwriting and production duties. There was never any issue about who sang on the records. As much as Phil and Steve wanted to be an actual working band as the Grass Roots, you can't blame Dunhill for insisting that the duo concentrate on what they'd been hired to do: write songs and produce. It was Dunhill's suggestion that if Sloan & Barri wanted an actual Grass Roots, then they should go find an actual band to be the Grass Roots. That aspect wasn't tied to who performed on the records. The label obviously didn't have the same concerns regarding Phil issuing his own solo records on Dunhill. Although it wasn't an ideal scratch for Sloan & Barri's own creative itch, it did mean they'd have a band to write for and produce that was also free to go on the road.
Edited by Yah Shure on 16 July 2013 at 7:24am
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TomDiehl1
MusicFan
Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
jimct wrote:
Tom, I think you may have mis-read some part of this thread. Because in it,
neither Aaron nor Yah Shure had ever asked any questions about, or made
any statements/claims, regarding the specific Grass Roots 45 track, "Let's
Live For Today." They've been speaking about a different GR song entirely.
The only two 45 tracks discussed here have been the topic of this thread,
with Yah Shure also making a quick reference to "A Melody For You". And
him comparing Fulton's vocals to Rob Grill's vocals on "Where Were You....",
which was first issued on their "Let's Live For Today" album...... |
|
|
That's what I get for posting in the middle of the night with a splitting headache... of course I meant "Where Were You..."
__________________
Live in stereo.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jono
MusicFan
Joined: 26 September 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 146
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 8:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
My first (memorable) exposure to "Where Were You When I Needed
You" was the Rob Grill version on the popular 70's LP "Their 16
Greatest Hits", which I don't think has a cd counterpart.
I hope I'm remembering this correctly, but it seems to me that when I
bought the Rhino Anthology cd new in 1991, the packaging mentioned
something about containing the original version of the song (after blah
blah so many years), which was a selling point for me.
Jon O.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
aaronk
Admin Group
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6428
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Pat lists CDs in his database in the order they were entered (I believe), which means that, for the most part, they are chronological by release date. The first CD listed for "Where Were You When I Needed You" that has the original hit version is, indeed, Rhino's Anthology.
__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I was the PD and morning guy at the local Transtar Oldies Channel affiliate in 1988 when I spotted a brand-new Ace/Big Beat import LP, P.F. Sloan/The Grass Roots - Songs Of Other Times at a nearby shop. It featured a nice mix of Sloan Dunhill solos, early Grass Roots recordings and a Dunhill single, "Karma", credited to A Study Of Divinations. The selling point for me was likewise the hit version of "Where Were You," especially since I'd never heard that version in stereo before. I couldn't wait to dub it and play it on the air.
The L.A.-based Oldies Channel aired the '67 Rob Grill re-do in regular rotation over the satellite, since that had been the only version available for years. I mailed a reel-to-reel dub of the new LP track to the network's PD in L.A., and they began airing the single version on the bird.
But I was never happy with the way the Big Beat stereo track folded to mono (my station being on AM) and ended up substituting the mono 45 on my own show.
Edited by Yah Shure on 16 July 2013 at 9:51pm
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
jono
MusicFan
Joined: 26 September 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 146
|
| Posted: 16 July 2013 at 10:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
jono wrote:
I hope I'm remembering this correctly, but it seems to
me that when I bought the Rhino Anthology cd new in 1991, the
packaging mentioned something about containing the original version
of the song (after blah blah so many years), which was a selling point
for me.
Jon O. |
|
|
Quoting myself, what I must've remembered was a first time on cd for
this particular track, as I have the hit version of "Where Were You..." On
the Rhino Nuggets Volume Five: Pop Part III LP, which, of course, has
no cd counterpart. The LP was released in 1985. I do remember being
excited about the original version on cd, however.
Despite liking this version a lot, I have to say that the remake by the
Bangles from the early 1980's (available on their Greatest Hits Cd) is
at least as good as the Grass Roots version, in my opinion (of course).
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
TomDiehl1
MusicFan
Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 715
|
| Posted: 17 July 2013 at 1:02am | IP Logged
|
|
|
jono wrote:
Despite liking this version a lot, I have to say that the remake by the
Bangles from the early 1980's (available on their Greatest Hits Cd) is
at least as good as the Grass Roots version, in my opinion (of course). |
|
|
If you like the Bangles version, check out the version by Adult Net.
__________________
Live in stereo.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 17 July 2013 at 6:43am | IP Logged
|
|
|
TomDiehl1 wrote:
| If you like the Bangles version, check out the version by Adult Net. |
|
|
Good one!
Completing the hat trick: the Triplets' version on Thicker Than Water. Hadn't played that one in so many years that I had to rifle through the CD racks to even remember their name. :)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Fetta
MusicFan
Joined: 26 April 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 389
|
| Posted: 01 July 2020 at 11:25am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Yah Shure wrote:
The clip that ran on Dick Clark's
Where The Action Is TV show featured Fulton lip-
synching with the rest of the short-lived second 'Roots
lineup. |
|
|
Yah Shure, I know it has been some time since this was
discussed but do you remember which version was used
during the "Where The Action Is" TV show?
Thanks.
-Jeff
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Yah Shure
MusicFan
Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1315
|
| Posted: 01 July 2020 at 3:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Fetta wrote:
| Yah Shure, I know it has been some time since this was discussed but do you remember which version was used during the "Where The Action Is" TV show? |
|
|
Jeff, it was the hit single version with Bill Fulton on lead vocal, which made sense, given that Bill was lip syncing to his own vocal on the record.
Rob Grill didn't lay down the new vocal for the 1967 Let's Live For Today vinyl LP version until after the Fulton lineup had been canned.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Active Topics 
Memberlist 
Search 
Help
Register 
Login
Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Grass Roots - Where Were You When
