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edtop40
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Posted: 18 May 2013 at 5:19am | IP Logged Quote edtop40

my commercial 45 for the marvin gaye song 'too busy
thinking about my baby' issued as tamla 54181 lists the run
time on the label as 2:57 but actually runs 2:56....you'll
need to pitch up the motown singles box set version (2:54)
(thanks brian)by 0:03 to match the vinyl 45 pitch......even
when that is done the cd version runs 0:04 short, just like
the anthology cd....this song requires a little more
review, as there is something odd going on with the version
that all run approx 2:54-2:55.....also....the intro is
slightly different....the drum reverb part on the vinyl 45
is much more noticeable....this 45 run time should added to
the db....

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Brian W.
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Posted: 19 May 2013 at 11:27am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

Yes, Ed is correct... his 45 has about a five second longer fade than the mono version on "Complete Mowtown Singles." Ed's 45 seems to run faster, too, presuming his turntable runs at the correct speed. If you slow Ed's 45 down to match the speed of the version on "Complete Motown," then Ed's 45 would actually run almost a full three minutes, 2:59 and just a hair under 3:00.

The final line on "Complete Motown" is "'Cause she's always on my..." end of song.

Ed's 45 goes, "'Cause she's always on my mind, whooo...." and then the background vocals go on for a second or two before the end of the fade.

Can someone check perhaps Marvin Gaye "Anthology" or "The Master"? I know "Anthology" was mastered by Bill Inglot, who almost always uses the correct singles masters.

Edited by Brian W. on 19 May 2013 at 11:28am
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Brian W.
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Posted: 19 May 2013 at 11:37am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

Yeah, Ed's single is a different mix than what's on "Complete Motown." In addition to the length and speed differences, at five seconds into the song, between "Listen to me people" and "I ain't got time," there's an orchestral flourish. It is very loud and pronounced on the 45, and very subdued and in the background on the "Complete Motown" mono mix.
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edtop40
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Posted: 19 May 2013 at 12:30pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

brian, the anthology cd has the same issue....if you pitch
it up to match the vinyl 45, it runs short....also...the
drum taps on the intro are much louder on the vinyl 45
than the mono cd versions..


Edited by edtop40 on 19 May 2013 at 12:38pm


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Brian W.
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Posted: 20 May 2013 at 12:25pm | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

Can anyone who owns the 45 check their copy? I'm wondering if all 45s or the same or if we have two different 45 versions here. (Something VERY common with Motown singles of the 1960s.)
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jimct
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Posted: 20 May 2013 at 1:51pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

Brian, my 45 is exactly like Ed's. Listed (2:57), actual (2:56), right down to
the added orchestral flourish and the "whoo" at the end. My deadwax: a
machine stamped, "X4KM-2719-1 B", followed by an upside down,
handwritten "N-S-N-573M07".

Edited by jimct on 20 May 2013 at 1:52pm
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edtop40
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Posted: 20 May 2013 at 4:37pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

guys, my commercial 45 has the exact same markings in the
run-out groove as jim's, no deviation.....

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Yah Shure
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Posted: 20 May 2013 at 9:05pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

My stock 45 matches Jim's copy; same deadwax details, orchestral flourish and actual (2:56) timing. Sure is a shrill-sounding single, though.

I also have a pre-MCA Motown Yesteryear Series reissue 45 (Y 422F), and while it also has the flourish/longer fade (and doesn't sound nearly as shrill) it runs four seconds slower (3:00 actual) and has a slight-but-noticeable hum prior to the orchestral flourish. Deadwax is all upside-down and hand-etched: "y422f-A CT-3 N-S-N-573MO7" and some other cryptic characters.
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jimct
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Posted: 08 June 2013 at 8:24am | IP Logged Quote jimct

Guys, I just pulled out my 1969 promo 45 for this song. Just to confirm, both
sides of it exactly match the deadwax info that Ed's, John's and my
commercial copy all have. Therefore, I now consider this to be the song's
"official" 45 mix.
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 25 September 2020 at 6:59pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

...seven years later...

The following CDs of the mono version all sound the same to my ears:
  • Motown's 2-CD Anthology (1995)
  • Motown's 4-CD The Master 1961-1984 (1995) - digitally identical to Anthology
  • Time-Life's Legends Of Soul Vol. 2 Marvin Gaye (2001) - digitally identical to the above two
  • Hip-O's Complete Motown Singles Vol. 9 1969 Disc 2 (2008)
The posts above indicate that the true mono 45 doesn't match this mix.

Sounds like a mono tape was mislabeled at some point.

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MMathews
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Posted: 25 September 2020 at 7:19pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

From the description above of the "wrong" mono mix it
sounds like it may be a fold-down of the stereo. This
may have been done due to a lost 45 master for it.

But I can't confirm that without comparing them.
MM
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 26 September 2020 at 2:41pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

Mark M's golden ears confirmed that the mono versions on CD (or at least the discs I listed above) are fold-downs of the stereo mix, and are not the true 45 mix.

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LunarLaugh
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Posted: 26 September 2020 at 4:37pm | IP Logged Quote LunarLaugh

Brian W. wrote:
I know "Anthology" was mastered by
Bill Inglot, who almost always uses the correct singles
masters.

Bill Inglot was actually not involved with the 1995
Marvin Gaye Anthology. He was involved with a couple of
the volumes in that Motown Masters series (The
Supremes, for certain) and he also handled the fabulous
Hitsville, USA box set. However, Gavin Lurssen at the
Mastering Lab handled the Marvin Gaye Anthology set.
Had Bill been involved, it's possible that we might not
have an issue with the wrong mono mix being used on CD.
The shuffling of the guard at Motown/Polygram/Universal
in the late 90s really seemed to throw a wrench in the
gears of some ongoing tape research and certain notes
on what tapes were which seemed to have either gone out
the window or they figured that whatever had already
been done in the master series was correct so they
never bothered to double check.

For my ears, the best available CD source you can find
by legitimate means would be Rhino's Billboard Top R&B
Hits 1969 which was released in 1989. Not only is the
fidelity of the track noticeably better than the other
discs I have featuring the song, but the fade out is
not ducked early in mastering. This is to say that Bill
Inglot and Ken Perry allowed the full fade of this
stereo mix to run out. Listen in headphones and you can
hear the tape leader going over the playback head
before the tape hiss subsides. This feature is faded
out on all other CD appearances that I have this song
on but the Rhino disc demonstrates quite clearly that
the stereo mix was faded a fraction sooner than the
mono mix that appears on the 45.

For completeness and comparisons sake, the other CDs I
have this track on are as follows:

    Marvin Gaye - Compact Command Performances: 15 Greatest
    Hits (a bit duller sounding and fades a very small hair
    earlier compared to the Rhino disc).


    Marvin Gaye - 20th Century Masters: The Best of Volume
    1 The 60s (a good transfer, mastering a little on the
    louder side, fades earlier than the Compact Command
    Performances disc)

    Marvin Gaye - GOLD [2005 reissue of 2001 "Very Best
    of"] (seemingly the same transfer as 20th Century
    Masters but faded a little more earlier).



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PopArchivist
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Posted: 30 July 2022 at 2:48pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Guess the true 45 still has not made CD. Duly noted.

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Kevin711
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Posted: 09 August 2022 at 5:38pm | IP Logged Quote Kevin711

I just want to take a minute to thank everyone for the
information on this song. I tracked down an original mono
45 and I can hear the difference.
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