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edtop40
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Posted: 18 November 2012 at 12:39pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

i see that the commercial 45 for the beatles song 'hey jude
and revolution' issued as apple 2276 comes in both an
orange version and a actual apple image version.....which
version was the original version issued in 1968?

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Yah Shure
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Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

It was the first Beatles single issued on the Apple label.

All original-issue U.S. Beatles Capitol 45s up through and including "Lady Madonna" were graced with the orange-and-yellow swirl design. From "Hey Jude" through "The Long And Winding Road," the Apple design was used.

Any orange label Capitols were mid-'70s reissues.

Edited by Yah Shure on 18 November 2012 at 1:30pm
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

(double post deleted)

Edited by Yah Shure on 18 November 2012 at 1:28pm
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edtop40
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Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:38pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

thanks, as always!!

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Yah Shure
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Posted: 18 November 2012 at 3:31pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Always happy to lend a hand, Ed.

I should clarify what I'd mentioned about the orange label Capitol issue: it wasn't technically a reissue, since the single had remained in print all along. It was simply a later pressing with the then-current Capitol label. U.S. Beatle orange-label Capitols were only in print for about two years; from 1976 to 1978.

"Hey Jude" was on the Apple label from 1968 to about 1976, when all Beatle-related group and solo Apple label releases were switched to the Capitol label in the U.S. (this included all the group's pre-"Jude" 45 and LP efforts which had first appeared on Capitol and were subsequently moved to Apple in 1971.) Over that seven-year span, there were some variations on the Apple "Hey Jude" 45. My original 1968 copy has "MFD. BY APPLE RECORDS, INC." in green along the perimeter of the "Revolution" side, and has no mention on either side of George Martin or having been recorded across the pond.

A later Apple pressing I have includes "Produced by: George Martin" and "Recorded in England" on both sides. The halved-apple "Revolution" side's perimeter printing reads "MFD. BY CAPITOL RECORDS, INC. A SUBSIDIARY OF CAPITOL INDUSTRIES, INC., U.S.A. [dot] T.M.", the Capitol dome logo and marca reg/patent no. info., all in white type.
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 10:39am | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

I just wanted clarification, but it is my understanding that there never was a radio edit for Hey Jude. I know some years later in the 70's in order to fit Hey Jude on a compilation album they needed to cut some time and faded it out early at about a little over 5 minutes on 20 Greatest Hits, but in 1968 there was no official radio edit of the song.

Back then I know the Beatles were pushing all sorts of boundaries, including new sounds and time limits on songs. But would the 5:05 be a valid edit since it appeared on an official Beatles comp?

Any insight anyone can share, would love to hear it.

Edited by PopArchivist on 18 January 2019 at 10:49am
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Hykker
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 12:02pm | IP Logged Quote Hykker

PopArchivist wrote:
Back then I know the Beatles
were pushing all sorts of boundaries, including new
sounds and time limits on songs. But would the 5:05 be
a valid edit since it appeared on an official Beatles
comp?


There is plenty of precedent of songs that were
somehow different released on compilations well after
a song's chart run, so I'd say yes it's a "valid"
version.

While the Beatles certainly pushed boundaries as far
as new sounds, song length wasn't really one of them.
"McArthur Park" and "Sky Pilot" were both longer songs
released a few months earlier in 1968 (though I'm not
sure if the long version of SP was on a commercial
single or only the promo), and "Like A Rolling Stone"
was just over 6 minutes 3 years earlier.
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 12:39pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Hykker,

When all you can cite is two other songs that were both longer in the same year and one that was 6 minutes in 1965 I would still consider Hey Jude to have pushed a boundary that radio had traditionally relegated to 3-4 min tracks (and hey it was The Beatles, no one was going to shorten them!). Radio for example played the 2:52 of Light My Fire, rather than the full album version of the song. When given a choice of an edit, the radio station played that. The Beatles were so huge that they gave them no such choice, either they played it all or faded it at the 5:05 min mark like the LP 20 GH did.

The 7 minute track was by far an oddity on a 45 in 1968. In the last 10 years I can't remember a single that came out that was 7 minutes. I do recall M.C. Hammer's 2 Legit 2 Quit being 7 minutes, but that had a 5 min radio edit. Even Billy Joel lamented in his song about how radio trimmed down a great song to 3:05......



Edited by PopArchivist on 18 January 2019 at 12:43pm
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 8:31pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

I generally stay out of these things, since it gets into Pat's Rule #2 for the chat board regarding opinion instead of objectivity. But as long as the subject has been brought up:

1) The 20 GH truncation is, indeed a valid commercial release and should be treated as such. Having said that, its shortened length has everything to do with the technical limitations of vinyl, rather than artistic considerations. Were the vinyl LP able to contain the entire track, Apple/Capitol would in all likelihood have chosen not to shorten it.

2) 7+ minute singles have always been the exception to the rule. To dismiss two of them that actually preceded "Hey Jude" during the same year is a disservice when analyzing who truly pushed the boundary. I'm not pitting one against the other from a personal opinion standpoint, since I liked them both and bought them both in 1968. So here's my 2¢ worth:    

3) When it comes right down to it, "Hey Jude" is basically a 7+-minute singalong. It was released by a band of such fame and renowned stature that radio was going to play it, period. That wasn't pushing any burdensome envelopes. What was, and in astonishing fashion, was "Mac Arthur Park." Here was a single that sounded like no other. It wasn't a singalong with a long, repetitious ending. It was a complex record composed of disparate parts, woven together. It wasn't going to delight the Rate-A-Record participants on American Bandstand. It was performed by an actor, who was known (if at all) for his performance as King Arthur in Camelot the previous year, and certainly neither for his prowess as a singer nor as a recording artist.

So you have a real odd duck of a record, performed by a duck out of water, more than in it. A no-name record by a pretty much no-name artist, clocking in at 7:20 and change. No short version for radio. No short 45 for the jukebox operators, who had to be less than thrilled. Never before had a record that long been a hit. And yet, "Mac Arthur Park" broke through the barrier in spite of all that. Bob Dylan was a known commodity. Eric Burdon & The Animals were no strangers to the charts. The Beatles? They had an entire war chest at their disposal. But along comes this fairly unknown actor who's singing this epic-length song about who-knows-what, during a year where everything was schizophrenic: the charts, the culture and most certainly the news headlines. The record overcame all of the objections radio programmers could muster and set the precedent for one-of-a-kind exceptions to the usual rules. *That* is pushing the boundary.      

Edited by Yah Shure on 18 January 2019 at 8:34pm
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PopArchivist
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 11:11pm | IP Logged Quote PopArchivist

Yah Shure,

Just a few objective points, trying not to let personal opinion get in the way

1) While not generally popular, you are correct it is a commercial release and an authorized edit. Which is the reason why I am trying to include it, even if its only appeared once.

2) At no time did I dismiss them. Neither of them however was #1 for 9 weeks like Hey Jude having a hold on a Hot 100 chart that had massive turnover every week. In measure of popularity for that era, being #1 for 9 weeks was virtually unprecedented (7 weeks yes, 9 weeks, rarely). Up until that time the most staying power that any song had was 1960's A Theme From A Summer Place on The Hot 100 (Elvis and his 11 weeks at #1 were before the Hot 100 beginnings)and that was at the beginning of the decade. If you look at how many top 40 songs there were just in 1968 and 1969 alone, MacArthur Park may have sounded like no other, but it was a #2 hit for 1 week. To put that in perspective, it would be quite awhile before anything hit 9 weeks or more at #1 again, which happened in 1977 for Debbie Boone's You Light Up My Life. In comparison there were numerous #2 songs that hit in the meantime. The Billboard charts of that era provide a roadmap to how popular something was during that year. They still do.

3) You are welcome to your opinion of Hey Jude that it is a singalong with a long repetitious ending, but it is not an objective view as you point out and I don't share that opinion when it stands as one of the chart toppers of the decade and the #1 song of the year ranked. I do agree that radio was going to play it because The Beatles were huge, but there was no guarantee that it would stay at #1 for 9 weeks anymore than MacArthur Park would stay at #2 for 1 week. I actually prefer Donna Summer's disco era version of MacArthur Park but I do like the song.

Yes, MacArthur Park did break through the barrier but the Beatles Hey Jude clearly was more popular at radio and sold more as evidenced by its long stay at #1 and its continued popularity to this day. Bob Dylan's Rolling Stone had a radio edit for 1965 that could break the song into two parts, which helped it along so programmers had a choice. The fact that the Beatles had a war chest can't escape that Hey Jude was so massive that radio could not avoid playing it. What I was getting at was The Beatles from 1962-1969 pushed more boundaries on more of their hits than anyone from that era.

Look what happened to Layla by Derek and The Dominos, which got a radio edit. They tried to shorten Stairway to Heaven by Led Zepplin and wisely decided not to issue a 45 single mainstream which was against the bands wishes. Radio was always trying to edit these long songs and not lose ad revenue.

I do agree with most of what you posted but The Beatles were always pushing the boundary of music since they first charted in 1964 until their last recorded note in late 1969 to early 1970. They did take notice of MacArthur Park's storm up the charts, as George Martin has said that it did inspire the Beatles to push the boundary as well (Producer George Martin, who always indulged the band’s whims, was uncomfortable with the idea of a seven-minute Beatles single, worrying that radio wouldn’t play it. Lennon correctly told him, “They will if it’s us.”)

Richard Harris might have succeeded in getting the door open, but Hey Jude's time length and chart dominance has yet to be equaled (a #1 song has yet to emerge at over 7 minutes since) and blew the door open so other bands that looked up to them would get heard if they recorded non-radio length singles. Even today no group or individual would dare release a 7 min single and not have a radio friendly edit and have radio accept it (Even Prince's Purple Rain was cut to 4:05 as a radio edit!) To say that the Beatles had no impact in smashing the door down is just not factual. What you view as a sing along is one of the catchiest late 60's songs ever (next to Sugar, Sugar by the Archies lol).

The above was posted as a different perspective. I didn't intend to get into a discussion about this, it was more of is the 5:05 really an official edit or not. The new sounds and time limit comment was not meant in any way to discount MacArthur Park and its own boundary pushing...

"I'm a pop archivist, not a chart philosopher, I seek to listen, observe and document the chart position of music."

Pop Archivist upon reading Yah Shure's well written post about MacArthur Park being a boundary setter

Edited by PopArchivist on 18 January 2019 at 11:20pm
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Paul Haney
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Posted: 19 January 2019 at 6:13am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

It should also be noted that some (many?) DJs probably
dumped out of the song early, since the last 4 minutes or
so is basically a super-extended fade-out anyway. Heck, I
did it myself a couple of times (many years after the
fact) when I was up against the top of the hour newscast.

Edited by Paul Haney on 19 January 2019 at 6:13am
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Hykker
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Posted: 19 January 2019 at 7:00am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

Paul Haney wrote:
It should also be noted that some
(many?) DJs probably
dumped out of the song early, since the last 4 minutes
or
so is basically a super-extended fade-out anyway.


I would dare to say many, if not most stations faded
the song early, especially in drive times. I have to
wonder if "Mac Arthur Park"'s length was what inspired
the Beatles to do their own 7 minute song, even if in
reality it was a 4 minute song with a 3 minute
repetitive chorus tacked on the end. The Beatles were
such a must-add artist in 1968 that they almost could
do no wrong (though they did push things a bit too far
a year later with "Ballad of John & Yoko" with many
stations either doing clumsy house edits or just not
playing the song).

I was just 6 months into my first radio gig in the
spring of '68 when "McAP" came out...ISTR one of the
selling points of the song was that it was 7
minutes long!! The picture sleeve to the promo EP can
be seen
here.

What makes McAP so much more amazing is that (1) it
not only didn't have a radio edit, the structure of
the song was such that it didn't readily lend itself
to editing...the PD at my station made an edit by
shortening the intro and removing most of the bridge,
but it sounded clumsy and somehow the cart jammed
while he was on vacation (wonder how that happened?),
and we just went back to playing the full version.
Secondly, if Rick Sklar's book is to be believed, the
song was broken by WABC, the #1 station in market #1,
which was generally very conserviative on adds,
usually waiting until a song was in the top 40
nationally before adding it.


Edited by Hykker on 19 January 2019 at 7:31am
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aaronk
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Posted: 19 January 2019 at 10:42am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

PopArchivist wrote:
...would the 5:05 be a valid edit since it
appeared on an official Beatles comp?

Any insight anyone can share, would love to hear it.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "valid." Yes, it was issued
on a legitimate Beatles compilation, but it's not how the song was
originally released. To me, it's merely another "neither 45 nor LP
version" as Pat would label it if it were released on CD. If you are
collecting these "neither" versions, be prepared to open up a large can
of worms. There are likely hundreds of "neither" versions that have
been released on official record company LPs and CDs but came out
long after a song's chart run and were not originally released that way.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 19 January 2019 at 9:17pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I would likely label this as:

Beatles - Hey Jude [non-hit early fade from 1982 20 Greatest Hits album] {early fade of Past Masters Vol. 2 Stereo}

My opinion:

I see this particular version as more of a mastering choice than an intentional shortening of the song. To cram 20 songs on a single LP, the mastering engineer likely took all the bass out of the songs, but I wouldn't label the other songs as [non-hit bass-free version from 1982 20 Greatest Hits album]. Since this 5:05 version never turned up anywhere, ever again, including all the Beatles CD releases in 1987, and the meticulous repackaging on CD in 2009, it seems to me that the Beatles and Capitol didn't see this as a proper version of the song either.

If I had plenty of hard drive space, I suppose I'd include it with the other files, but I see it as hardly essential.

In contrast, I think there's a real place in history for some of these non-hit versions:
  • Alarm - Strength [previously unreleased version] {Best Of}
  • Al Green - Let's Stay Together [stereo, 4.46 version that first appeared on Greatest Hits vinyl LP] {Ultimate Love Songs Collection Falling In Love Again}
  • America - A Horse With No Name [non-hit remix from 1975 History album] {History America's Greatest Hits}
  • Aretha Franklin - Rock Steady [previously unreleased mix extending to a cold ending, first appeared on 2006 What It Is box] {What It Is Disc 3}
  • Commodores - Just To Be Close To You [non-hit 1978 edit that first appeared on vinyl Greatest Hits LP] {Anthology Disc 1}
  • Derek And The Dominos - Layla [non-hit 1988 remix by John Jansen for Crossroads CD] {Crossroads Disc 2}
  • Derek And The Dominos - Layla [non-hit 1990 remix by Steve Rinkoff for 1990 rerelease of Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs] {Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs 1990 rerelease}
  • Elton John - Daniel [non-hit 1983 remix] {The Superior Sound Of Elton John 1970-1975}
  • O'Jays - Love Train [non-hit version from 1977 Philadelphia Classics vinyl LP] {Club Epic Vol. 3}
  • Robert Palmer - Bad Case Of Loving You (Doctor Doctor) [non-hit 1989 remix] {Only track on promo CD single}
  • Village People - Y.M.C.A. [non-hit 1980 Can't Stop The Music LP version with different lead singer] {Dance Fever}
  • ZZ Top - La Grange [non-hit 1980s-era remix] {Sixpack Disc 2}
These are just some assorted examples, all of which came out well after the song was a hit, and all of which show some sort of intentional mix/length differences.

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Posted: 17 July 2022 at 4:17pm | IP Logged Quote TallPaulInKy

This discussion of edits of Hey Jude, I found
interesting. But I will point out I am not a big Beatles
fan. That said up front I do enjoy viewing YouTube videos
on record collecting. One day I was watching a video on
the Beatles Pocket Disks.



As you can see the timing on this 4 inch disk is 3:25.
This is an official edit, issued at the time the song was
popular.

I don't know if there was a vinyl issue or not. According
to the database the closet to this is the "Love" edit.

I wonder if some radio stations may have carted this
version for use on the air.

Has anyone heard this version?

https://www.discogs.com/release/6102048-The-Beatles-Hey-
Jude

Edited by TallPaulInKy on 17 July 2022 at 4:22pm
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Posted: 18 July 2022 at 9:10am | IP Logged Quote garye

I had one of those flexy disc at one time.
They sounded really bad and were pressed cheap.
No station would've carted it because frankly sounded bad.
Most Top 40 stations in the original 1968 release did play
it all the way through, probably in the evening.
In daypart hours a few stations would fade at the 4:25 or
5:30 mark, both being a good place to fade.
In the 70's KILT in Houston, where I lived at the time,
faded the song at 5:25 in their Gold Rotation. Other Top 40
stations in those years followed the same path, with an
early fade.
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TallPaulInKy
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Posted: 02 August 2022 at 5:49pm | IP Logged Quote TallPaulInKy

Yah Shure wrote:
What was, and in astonishing fashion,
was "Mac Arthur Park."
So you have a real odd duck of a record, performed by a
duck out of water, more than in it. A no-name record by
a pretty much no-name artist, clocking in at 7:20 and
change. No short version for radio. No short 45 for the
jukebox operators, who had to be less than thrilled.
Never before had a record that long been a hit. And yet,
"Mac Arthur Park" broke through the barrier in spite of
all that.       


"Mac Arthur Park" was a landmark record, no doubt. But I
think saying, "A no-name record by a pretty much no-name
artist" is really stretching it. The record was issued in
Apr 1968. At that time Harris was an extremely popular
actor having made these films, The Bible: In the
Beginning...; Hawaii (with Julie Andrews); Camelot
playing King Arthur, which was out at the time he had a
hit single. These are just a few of the films he had out
and so the American public was very familiar with him.
SO, "a pretty much no-name artist" , no I don't think so.
He wasn't the Rolling Stones, or The Beatles..but
unknown? I wish you were living during that time.

Edited by TallPaulInKy on 02 August 2022 at 5:50pm
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Posted: 03 August 2022 at 3:28am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

TallPaulInKy wrote:

"Mac Arthur Park" was a landmark record, no doubt. But I
think saying, "A no-name record by a pretty much no-name
artist" is really stretching it. The record was issued in
Apr 1968. At that time Harris was an extremely popular
actor having made these films, The Bible: In the
Beginning...; Hawaii (with Julie Andrews); Camelot
playing King Arthur, which was out at the time he had a
hit single. These are just a few of the films he had out
and so the American public was very familiar with him.
SO, "a pretty much no-name artist" , no I don't think so.
He wasn't the Rolling Stones, or The Beatles..but
unknown? I wish you were living during that time.


Was the snark really necessary? I was living when that song was a hit (as was YahShure), indeed 1968 was the year I graduated high school. I had
gotten my first paid radio gig (weekends at our local station) about 6 months earlier. Among my fellow jocks, there was a MUCH bigger buzz on this
song than on "Hey Jude", and I recall getting a lot of calls from listeners about McAP.
While film buffs may have been familiar with Harris, not many actors had hit songs that reached the top 40...a few here and there but not
many. As a teenager at the time, I was vaguely aware of his existence, but didn't really know who he was and even if I did, it wouldn't
have cut any ice. I'll bet I'm not the only one. "MacArthur Park" made it on its own merits. Granted, he was, for all intents and
purposes a one-hit wonder, but what a hit!

Edited by Hykker on 03 August 2022 at 3:34am
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AdvprosD
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Posted: 03 August 2022 at 4:33pm | IP Logged Quote AdvprosD

Hykker wrote:
[QUOTE=TallPaulInKy]
While film buffs may have been familiar with Harris, not many actors had hit songs that reached the top 40...a few here and there but not
many. As a teenager at the time, I was vaguely aware of his existence, but didn't really know who he was and even if I did, it wouldn't
have cut any ice. I'll bet I'm not the only one. "MacArthur Park" made it on its own merits. Granted, he was, for all intents and
purposes a one-hit wonder, but what a hit!


Oh, THAT Richard Harris!

I had often noted the parallel in names of the actor, and also the song MacArthur Park, but didn't associate then as the same person. I was 8 in 1968, so it never occurred to me
that they were one and the same. I'll drop my vote in as this being an odd coincidence and affirm you are "Not the only one." Great actor though.

I absolutely loved the song and still do to this day. However, knowing this factoid now makes me feel like I'm not as observant as I like to think of myself. I hope I don't find
someday a song done by the other Richard, Richard Dawson. I enjoyed Match Game in the seventies, but that dude always gave me a creep vibe.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 03 August 2022 at 7:33pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

Chuck "The Gong Show" Barris wrote the 1962 hit "Palisades Park".

Just sayin'.

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