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Subject Topic: List of mono and Stereo 45s - 1972 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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eriejwg
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Posted: 12 January 2017 at 4:04pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Is the mono "Ben" and the mono "Rockin' Robin" a fold
down or dedicated mono mix?
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davidclark
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Posted: 12 January 2017 at 8:13pm | IP Logged Quote davidclark

So, The Complete Motown Singles missed the opportunity to provide us with a
mono "Rockin' Robin" and "Ben". :(

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jimct
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Posted: 12 January 2017 at 8:24pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

John, I remember when the two 1972 Complete Motown Singles volumes
came out several years ago. It was the first year that the label's 45s were
more often than not (with several clear exceptions, such as the Temps'
late '72 smash, "Papa Was A Rolling Stone") initially mixed to stereo.

This left the Box Set compilers with a choice: do they include the stereo or
mono 45 versions on the 1972 CMS sets? The liner notes stated that they
eventually opted to include the stereo 45 masters, explaining that the
1972 Motown mono 45 masters which also had a stereo 45 master made
were *always* simply fold-downs. In other words, according to Harry
Weinger and his staff's research, Motown had created no 1972 dedicated
mono mixes. So then choosing to leave off the mono fold-downs were 1)
no big deal, and 2) allowed the 1972 volumes in the CMS series to
maintain its past years' price point and 2) keep the # of discs per volume
at 5 pr 6, as all the other years' CMS volumes had been.

Man, there sure has been a lot of "is it a dedicated mono mix" questions
on here of late! We've kicked this topic around on here for years now. We
*all* want to know which hit songs had them. Sadly, for those asking in
2017, it is still near-impossible for any of us to answer these queries
without two things: 1) having access to mono 45 masters that often only
existed on promo 45 copies, and 2) Requiring always very-time-
consuming, case-by-case analysis by extremely busy, high-level audio
analysts like Aaron or Mark. Personally, I will forever refuse to ask
questions like this on here, feeling that I'd either be taking advantage of
those guys' kindness (because I am positive that neither one has the time
to work on such things, 100% as a favor to others), or to assume that they
always have access to rare, original promo 45s, when I know for a fact
that they don't.

All I ask, once again, is to not forget that when you ask about dedicated
mono mixes, you're really asking a *lot* of some of our busy, very top
T4MOC experts. And unless it happens to be that all-too-rare case where
Mark had already analyzed it for a paying client (like with "Heart Of Gold"),
getting you answers will always require much time and effort by others, if
the answer can be determined at all.

Edited by jimct on 12 January 2017 at 8:42pm
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eriejwg
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Posted: 13 January 2017 at 2:29pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Thanks, Jim for the excellent response. I hadn't
purchased any of the Motown Singles sets, only
purchased the various tracks I wanted through iTunes
etc., so I wasn't privy to the liner notes.

I know the 1960s mono Motown mixes just blow the
stereo mixes out of the water and I wanted to confirm
that this wasn't still the case for 1972.

Unfortunately, many of the YouTube channels that I've
used to compare 45 to lp and mono to stereo mixes have
all but disappeared or the sound of the 45 is being
picked up from a camera mic 5 feet away.
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MMathews
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Posted: 13 January 2017 at 7:29pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Ah yes - disappearing videos. FYI .. some may have noticed this already. Universal, Warner and Sony have been actively and prolifically posting music from their back catalog on You-tube. It's a bit hap-hazard right now, but they continue to post more every week. when they do this, they usually have "bots" search out other videos with the same music "wav print" and have them taken down.
They don't hit on all the videos, so I still see plenty of others still there. But some will disappear. Logically, they want the most plays to go to their own posts.
This trend will continue.
This is the only sensible move I've seen the majors make since the downloading and streaming era began.
MM

Edited by MMathews on 13 January 2017 at 8:27pm
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EdisonLite
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Posted: 14 January 2017 at 12:54pm | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

In this case, Mark, at least the original music video (from Universal, Warner and Sony) will still be on YouTube, and probably in better quality than a fan's recording (most likely off MTV). What is bothersome to me is when a rare video is taken down and not replaced by the label by their copy of a music video, which I'm guessing happens fairly often.
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eriejwg
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Posted: 14 January 2017 at 3:03pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

What I was referring to was when someone played a 45
from start to finish with the audio of the turntable
directly plugged into the camcorder, not using the
microphone. The labels are getting those videos pulled
too.

Many of the videos with the poor quality audio from a
turntable or record player and external mic remain.

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davidclark
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Posted: 14 January 2017 at 7:38pm | IP Logged Quote davidclark

It would be sad if those actual 45 (and to a lesser extent, LP) dubs are
removed from YouTube. In recent years, it has been one of the few ways to
confirm an actual 45, since the labels are often not keen to issue 45 versions
on CD, or worse, issue the wrong version labelled as such.

Edited by davidclark on 14 January 2017 at 8:19pm


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Yah Shure
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Posted: 05 November 2017 at 10:40pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Apologies for not catching this one sooner: the stock copy of Bread's "Diary" I bought in 1972 both states and plays stereo, as does its "B" side, "Down On My Knees". The handwritten deadwax matrix prefixes are "EKS" on both sides, indicative of stereo Elektra cuttings.

This one appears to be a case where only the Columbia Terre Haute commercial pressings were in stereo. The Specialty, Columbia Pitman and Columbia Santa Maria stocks, as well as the promo 45 (with the same A and B-side pairings as the stocks) all stated and played mono.

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eriejwg
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Posted: 06 November 2017 at 10:44am | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

John,

Quick question. Do the stock and promo copies of "Diary"
contain a dedicated mono mix as earlier Bread recordings
did?
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 09 November 2017 at 4:13pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

eriejwg wrote:
Do the stock and promo copies of "Diary" contain a dedicated mono mix as earlier Bread recordings did?


John, I can't speak for the stock mono copies, since mine is stereo. I didn't think I had a promo, but one was lurking on the shelves.

Yes, the DJ 45 is a dedicated mono mix. The Moog flourishes are noticeably more prominent on it than they are when the stereo stock is reduced to mono.

Curiously, the lone Terre Haute stereo styrene stock 45 isn't a rogue Columbia mastering: both it and my Philips Recording Company (later PRC) vinyl mono DJ 45 were cut by the same mastering engineer.
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