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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 01 February 2012 at 11:47am | IP Logged
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Todd et al. - My sincere appreciation for your efforts in
sorting through all these 45s!
I started collecting them in 1978, and I don't have enough
of the pre-'78 discs to be much help here. Just letting
you know that your efforts are really appreciated, even if
I'm not chiming in.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 01 February 2012 at 1:00pm | IP Logged
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I was wondering if anyone can confirm with 100% certainty the following:
==> commercial mono 45 pressings of Cat Stevens' "Moon Shadow" (I may have misunderstood reports suggesting they exist)
==> commercial stereo 45 pressings of the Dells' "The Love We Had (Stays on My Mind)" (some pressings do state "stereo" on the label, but Jim reports his is in mono)
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Yah Shure
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| Posted: 01 February 2012 at 7:27pm | IP Logged
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Todd Ireland wrote:
I was wondering if anyone can confirm with 100% certainty the following:
==> commercial mono 45 pressings of Cat Stevens' "Moon Shadow" (I may have misunderstood reports suggesting they exist)
==> commercial stereo 45 pressings of the Dells' "The Love We Had (Stays on My Mind)" (some pressings do state "stereo" on the label, but Jim reports his is in mono) |
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With 100% certainty? No, but my own stock copies are:
"Moon Shadow" - stereo
"The Love We Had (Stays On My Mind)" - mono. The etched matrix number also states "CA 1656 - MONO", and there's no mono or stereo designation on the label.
(Side note: The Dells record was one of the worst-pressed new singles I ever bought, suffering from poor fill, BIG chunks of regrind and the crackle resulting from overheating the so-called vinyl in the record press. Had it actually been in stereo, it would have been completely unlistenable. And this was the cleanest-looking copy in the bins at the time!)
Edited by Yah Shure on 01 February 2012 at 7:29pm
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:03pm | IP Logged
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Yes, many thanks to Paul, Jim, Bill, Steve, Kent and other contributors to this project. I certainly commend all of you for your continued hard work.
In regards to the fold-down/mix question, that was me thinking out loud, then asking. I agree it would probably be near impossible. But, if anyone, by chance, discovers any mix differences, I'm sure it would be noted in the database by Pat.
Again, kudos to all.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 01 February 2012 at 10:08pm | IP Logged
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eriejwg wrote:
| But, if anyone, by chance, discovers any mix differences, I'm sure it would be noted in the database by Pat. |
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This is true, but only if the mono mix contains something that is not in the stereo mix. A unique mono mix (as opposed to a fold-down) is not enough to warrant a "version" designation in Pat's database. For instance, there are several '60s-era Motown records that have no version designation; however, I think it's been noted in other threads that most (if not all) are unique mono mixes.
Edited by aaronk on 01 February 2012 at 10:09pm
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EdisonLite
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| Posted: 02 February 2012 at 1:37am | IP Logged
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This brings up an interesting point as to what's a "unique mono mix". I assume if you fold a stereo down and got a mono version that is in ANY WAY different from the mono 45, the 45 is a unique mono mix. It doesn't necessarily have to have added instruments or instruments missing, right? Is a unique mono 45 mix simply anything that does not exactly match the stereo fold down?
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davidclark
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| Posted: 02 February 2012 at 2:24am | IP Logged
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My definition of a unique mono mix is one that is made from the multi-
track masters, i.e., they take the multi and produce a 1-channel mono
mix. Classically, it was for the 45 (and mono LP). I assume a fold-down
is taking a 2-channel stereo mix and simply folding it to mono by
combining the two channels, which can be done in Adobe Audition. True,
this will sound different from the stereo, but to me, it is not "unique".
A unique mono mix can emphasize certain parts of the song (e.g., the
rhythm section, the vocal(s)) that the stereo mix (or a fold-down of same)
does not do.
My wish (and I'm not asking this of anyone to do btw) is, that as we
moved into the stereo 45 era, to know what mono 45s are fold-downs
and what are unique mono mixes. I presume MOST 45s from 1967 and
prior were unique mono mixes, therefore my "wish to know" list is only a
few hundred, NOT thousands. I know that the Elvis 45s of the late 60s
and 1970 are primarily unique mono mixes.
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jimct
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| Posted: 02 February 2012 at 7:33am | IP Logged
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davidclark wrote:
My wish (and I'm not asking this of anyone to do btw)
is, that as we moved into the stereo 45 era, to know what mono 45s are
fold-downs and what are unique mono mixes. I presume MOST 45s from
1967 and prior were unique mono mixes, therefore my "wish to know" list
is only a few hundred, NOT thousands. |
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David, I've never met a
single person in my life who's made a "wish" who didn't want to see it
come true. Have you? And how else is your wish gonna happen here, but
for a herculean labor effort, by either few or many, producing
"guesstimate" results at best, even as compiled by some of the best "audio
ears" anywhere on the planet, found right here on this very board! David,
in my humble opinion, your reduction of songs to "a few hundred" just
isn't accurate. "Single remixes" continued well into the stereo 45 era,
all through the 80s, and even well beyond that. Like that recent
"December, 1963" thread, with the elusive, little-known single version,
finally found on the recent "Jersey Boys" CD set. This saga started with a
1976, stereo initial release. How much time/effort did just that *one*
song take to be determined/get resolved? A lot. David, you're one of the
very kindest souls I've met on this board - a total class human being. And
I do 100% see your point - heck, we *all* want to know what which hits
are fold-downs/dedicated single mixes, be it mono or stereo. Because
without knowing this, how can any of us be 100% sure that we have the
right single versions on CD? This fact drives many of us (including me)
nuts! This still doesn't mean it's do-able, however.
An example: Exxon/Mobil and other companies in 2012 badly want
immediate access to the materials found on the Moon and Mars. Just as
bad as we want our mix info (probably even more!). But they, too, are
simply out of luck, because the technology isn't there yet. David, it's not
here yet for us, either. All of us together couldn't do it correctly. If we
could, we would. Because that's what we do here, and we're not easily
discouraged! That's my only point here, buddy! I hope you'll give the issue
another look. Then, at worst, we can agree to disagree! :) I truly hope
life in Thailand is going well for you, sir, and I think it's great that you
are still able to stay in touch with some of your old friends via Pat's board!
-Jim
Edited by jimct on 02 February 2012 at 7:51am
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 02 February 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
Todd, I didn't recall you ever bringing up to me needing the Isleys' "Spill The Wine" info, either by e-mail or phone recently - the first I'm seeing of it is
here now, as the last 1971 straggler! Had it the whole time, buddy - here are the particulars: (mono; L 2:40; A 2:39). |
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Sorry, I missed your post regarding the Isley Brothers' "Spill the Wine" from yesterday, Jim. Thanks so much for the update as this now officially completes the 1971 mono/stereo 45 list!
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davidclark
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| Posted: 03 February 2012 at 10:40pm | IP Logged
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I was curious to see just how many 45s were issued in mono during the
years Todd is preparing his lists. I have placed Todd's lists into an Excel
spreadsheet, and have determined the following (assuming I haven't made
a "clerical" error):
1968 - 296 45s, 291 mono 45s
1969 - 298 45s, 250 mono 45s
1970 - 275 45s, 204 mono 45s
1971 - 286 45s, 194 mono 45s
1972 - 264 45s, 131 mono 45s
Note that I count a mono 45 even if a stereo one was issued as well.
So, to 1972, we have 1,070 Top 40 45s issued in mono. Our lists will
continue to 1974, as per Todd's intent. I will add those years when they
become available.
I am so grateful to Todd (and his helpers) for preparing these lists as I had
no means of doing so. Jim, I believe you misunderstood me. To clarify,
the years for which my "few hundred" estimate was directed are these
seven years, not all years nor did it include 45s with alternate stereo
mixes. Prior to 1968, there are 1,000s of mono 45s indeed. So, my "few
hundred" currently amount to 1,070. I did underestimate somewhat, yes.
I cheer when this board continues to discover single mixes (stereo or
mono) different from their LP counterparts. I believe I have helped to
identify some over the years. I know my wish to determine "unique mono
mixes" is not possible, however I can still wish for it.
Edited by davidclark on 04 February 2012 at 12:01am
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KentT
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| Posted: 24 February 2012 at 9:13pm | IP Logged
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Update! Sammi Smith "Help Me Make It Through The Night" is first pressing mono, second pressing on Stereo. Most copies are Stereo due to this song having a long chart life and the fact this tune stayed on jukeboxes for several years.
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 24 February 2012 at 9:35pm | IP Logged
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The new info has been noted, Kent. Thanks!
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edtop40
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| Posted: 23 November 2014 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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my commercial 45 for the james taylor song 'country road'
issued as warner 7460 sounds like it's in mono.....the run
out groove info is 'WB-7460A M-17967-S'....can anyone who
has the commercial 45 double check to see if there's is in
mono or stereo...
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 25 November 2014 at 12:49pm | IP Logged
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I only have the DJ copy and the stereo side is confirmed stereo, with run out groove M-17967-S 1B, then the word STEREO.
The mono side is M-17967-DJ 1A, and of course it is mono.
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jimct
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| Posted: 25 November 2014 at 9:13pm | IP Logged
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Ed, my WB 7460 stock 45 copy states (M17967)S on the label, but shows a
different # inside the deadwax,: "M-19578-S 1F STEREO". It is the correct
song, though, and is obviously in stereo. I don't know exactly what happened
with your copy. Perhaps some un-intended mono copies escaped from one
of the pressing plants WB used for "Country Road". Could you send a dub of
your 45 copy out to one of your "digital spectrum analyzer buddies", for a
confirmation? If they concur with your opinion of mono, then we'll go ahead
and update the master list, with both (M) and (S) stock 45s for this one.
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Bill Cahill
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| Posted: 16 March 2017 at 5:36am | IP Logged
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Update on my comment: "My guesses on two of the Grass Roots songs above are that Sooner or Later and Two Divided by Love are fold
downs". At least in the case of "Two Divided by Love", I guessed wrong. We now know that if it was a fold down, it was a fold down of
the stereo DJ 45 mix, not the album stereo mix. But it wouldn't surprise me if both "Two Divided by Love" and "Sooner or Later" were
mixed specifcally for 45 release, but without major differences from the stereo versions.
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Jack45
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| Posted: 29 July 2023 at 6:16pm | IP Logged
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YouTube poster AnotherProf (same man as The45Prof) has a copy of "A Natural Man" that's mono instead of stereo.
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: List of mono and Stereo 45s - 1971
