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Indy500
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Posted: 12 January 2011 at 4:46pm | IP Logged Quote Indy500

Except for "Up, Up and Away," there are no entries in the database for mono recordings on domestic CDs.

1) At what point did their singles begin to be released in stereo?

2) Has anyone found additional mono versions on any imports?
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 12 January 2011 at 6:15pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

I don't have all of their singles, by any means, but the vast majority of the 5D's commercial 45s were mono. Here's what I do have, and others can fill in the missing info:


Soul City commercial 45s:

up through 776 "Workin' On A Groovy Thing" - MONO
779 - "Wedding Bell Blues" - MONO
780 - Blowing Away - STEREO
(781 - "The Girls' Song" - don't have)

Bell commercial 45s:

860 - Medley: "A Change Is Gonna Come" & "People Got To Be Free" / "The Declaration" - MONO
880 - "Puppet Man" - MONO
895 - "Save The Country" - MONO
(913 - "On The Beach" - don't have)
940 - "One Less Bell To Answer" - MONO
965 - "Love's Lines, Angles And Rhymes" - MONO
999 - "Light Sings" - MONO
(45134 - "Never My Love" - don't have)
(45170 - "Together Let's Find Love" - don't have)
45185 - "(Last Night) I Didn't Get To Sleep At All" - MONO
45261 - "If I Could Reach You" - MONO

I only have promo copies of the Bell/Arista/ABC 45s after those.
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Indy500
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Posted: 12 January 2011 at 6:29pm | IP Logged Quote Indy500

Wow, this band could really use a proper singles collection from Collector's Choice or someone. Thanks so much for the info.
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Hykker
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Posted: 13 January 2011 at 7:18am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

Some of their Soul City promo copies were stereo:
Sweet Blindness
Wedding Bell Blues
Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In
(long version stereo, short version mono)
Maybe some made it to commercial copies?

Most of the Bell promo singles were mono/stereo (Never My Love was mono long/short).
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Brian W.
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Posted: 13 January 2011 at 3:03pm | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

There was a discussion either here or on another board that ALL Bell commercial singles were mono for some reason. I think one person found ONE stereo Bell 45 that was a commercial release, and I think it was from like 1974. Was it "Nights the Lights Went Out in Georgia"? I'm thinking someone had a rare stereo copy of that.

Edited by Brian W. on 13 January 2011 at 3:04pm
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Roscoe
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Posted: 13 January 2011 at 6:12pm | IP Logged Quote Roscoe

Brian W. wrote:
There was a discussion either here or on another board that ALL Bell commercial singles were mono for some reason. I think one person found ONE stereo Bell 45 that was a commercial release, and I think it was from like 1974. Was it "Nights the Lights Went Out in Georgia"? I'm thinking someone had a rare stereo copy of that.


I wonder how many of those were fold-downs?

Certainly "Tie A Yellow Ribbon Round The Ole Oak Tree" was a dedicated mono mix, as the hooky keyboard line in the intro is much more prominent in the mix on the mono 45 than the stereo version.

I don't think I have ever heard any of the Fifth Dimension Bell hits in mono...any notable mix differences?

Edited by Roscoe on 13 January 2011 at 6:12pm
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KentT
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Posted: 16 January 2011 at 11:12am | IP Logged Quote KentT

It was "The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia" on Bell which had one pressing run which used the Stereo side promo stamper. I once owned that 45. It was in very chewed up condition. My present replacement in NM condition is Mono.

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Fetta
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Posted: 29 November 2015 at 1:52pm | IP Logged Quote Fetta

Hey everyone,

It's been almost 5 years since this post....anyone know
if any of the Fifth Dimension singles have been made
available in mono yet? If not, can anyone shed light if
there are mix differences between mono and stereo or are
the mono versions just fold downs?

Thanks.
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TomDiehl1
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Posted: 04 December 2015 at 10:54pm | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1

Up-Up And Away was given a stereo promo release on Soul
City 757 (B side is album mini-cuts, not the stock and
mono promo B side release).

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jimct
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Posted: 05 December 2015 at 1:15am | IP Logged Quote jimct

Tom is correct, as to an unusual "two, sequentially-numbered promo 45s
released" situation, with regard to "Up-Up And Away". My 1967 promo 45
is on Soul City 756 (as is my stock 45), is in mono, has "Which Way To
Nowhere" on the flip, has a listed time of (2:40), an actual time of (2:39),
with handwritten hit side deadwax of "SCR 756-A".

But I really don't think that any of these "Up-Up And Away" promo 45
particulars, abnormal as they are, do much at all to help to answer the
question Fetta just asked here: Are the mono 45s of the 5th D hits fold
downs of the stereo, dedicated mono mixes, or a combo of both?

I've asked that same question to myself, about numerous songs. My
experience has been that, after guys like Mark Mathews or Aaron work on
a CD project, then (and only then) do they go to the bother to make an
accurate determination about that. I'll bet Aaron can answer it, for any and
all songs from the various Dunhill singles CD comps he's submitted so
far. Because it was his responsibility to provide the 100% correct stock 45
version, be it mono or stereo. To do that, he likely placed the various,
mono & stereo versions "under the microscope", then did a careful A/B
comparison, analyzed the results on a song-by-song basis, and went
forward mastering the audio from what he found to be the case.

Bottom line? Unless someone ever hires a guy like Aaron to do a not-
even-remotely-yet-on-the-radar 5th D original singles CD, how likely is it
that he would go to *all* the bother to track down clean copies of all the
group's 45s and LPs, and then give them "the Dunhill fine tooth comb
audio analysis treatment?" Just for the fun of it, no less! Can you say slim
and none? For info that would be nice-to-know? It's way too time
consuming. And it might not even be an area of particular interest to him.

So Jeff, sure, I'd love to know the answer to your question as much as you.
But am I surprised we've gotten none? Not at all. Such research is very
time consuming. Heck, I'm already beyond giddy at how much great stuff I
learn here on the forum all the time for free!

Edited by jimct on 05 December 2015 at 1:22am
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 05 December 2015 at 10:47am | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

jimct wrote:
Such research is very time consuming.


That perfectly sums up why I hadn't chimed in earlier, Jim. It's one thing to compare one or two 45s, but the mere thought of doing so for all the mono 5th Dimension 45s I have made my ears glaze over, so to speak.

Having said that, there is at least one 5D hit that definitely has a dedicated mono mix: "Go Where You Wanna Go." The first time I heard the song in stereo several years after buying the Soul City 45, two things about it jumped out: the vocals were far more upfront and the bass and percussion were far more subdued than on the 45.

But the 45 has its own major issue: while the prominence of the driving beat really makes the mono mix cook, it also manages to overpower the vocals.
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Fetta
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Posted: 06 December 2015 at 7:00pm | IP Logged Quote Fetta

Thanks Yah Shure for covering off on the one 45 you knew
about. Another one to search out or hope for a release
at some point.

Great to get helpful feedback as always. Thanks for the
response.




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t horton
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Posted: 27 August 2016 at 2:07am | IP Logged Quote t horton

Yah Shure wrote:
I don't have all of their singles, by any means, but the vast majority of the 5D's commercial 45s were mono. Here's what I do have, and others can fill in the missing info:


Soul City commercial 45s:

up through 776 "Workin' On A Groovy Thing" - MONO
779 - "Wedding Bell Blues" - MONO
780 - Blowing Away - STEREO
(781 - "The Girls' Song" - don't have)

Bell commercial 45s:

860 - Medley: "A Change Is Gonna Come" & "People Got To Be Free" / "The Declaration" - MONO
880 - "Puppet Man" - MONO
895 - "Save The Country" - MONO
(913 - "On The Beach" - don't have)
940 - "One Less Bell To Answer" - MONO
965 - "Love's Lines, Angles And Rhymes" - MONO
999 - "Light Sings" - MONO
(45134 - "Never My Love" - don't have)
(45170 - "Together Let's Find Love" - don't have)
45185 - "(Last Night) I Didn't Get To Sleep At All" - MONO
45261 - "If I Could Reach You" - MONO

I only have promo copies of the Bell/Arista/ABC 45s after those.
I have "The Girls' Song" 45 and it is in stereo.
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MMathews
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Posted: 27 August 2016 at 2:36pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Over the course of the last year I did have a chance to
do some of the detailed analysis Jim describes above for
just a few of their hits. Not many yet, but it's a start.

I carefully synchronized the 45 dubs with folded down
stereo mixes.

One thing to keep in mind is that sometimes a mix sounds
different if additional EQ or compression was applied to
the single.

That being said, I can certify that these songs are
indeed fold downs:
Aquarius/Let The Sunshine
Wedding Bell Blues
Love's Lines, Angles & Rhymes (fold-down+edit)
Go Where You Wanna Go**

**Yah Shure: when i first a/b this one, I too thought it
was a dedicated mix. But this was a case where the 45 was
heavily compressed pushing the vocals a little farther
back in the mix.

I did one more song that wasn't a top 40 hit but a great
song, that was "Ashes To Ashes." With Jim's help
I found that 45 has a completely different vocal take
than the stereo LP.

I'll report again when I have more info on other singles.
MM


Edited by MMathews on 27 August 2016 at 2:36pm
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Indy500
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Posted: 05 November 2016 at 1:07pm | IP Logged Quote Indy500

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Soul-City-Singles-1966-1975/ dp/B01M65ADE0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1476986985 &sr=1-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=10e634-20&linkId=df44ff96456ec2e2e1 00c964cb8e5a71

The Complete Soul City/Bell Singles 1966-1975 (3 CD Set)

Looks like I'll get my wish for Christmas. Mono heaven.

Edited by Indy500 on 05 November 2016 at 1:14pm
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Steve Carras
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Posted: 13 November 2016 at 8:31pm | IP Logged Quote Steve Carras

MMathews wrote:

I did one more song that wasn't a top 40 hit but a great
song, that was "Ashes To Ashes."

I know that one, and have it from SoulSeel. Written by one of the 70s best writer-producer teams, Lambert & Potter.

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JL328
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Posted: 12 April 2017 at 4:13am | IP Logged Quote JL328

Indy500 wrote:
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Soul-City-Singles-
1966-1975/ dp/B01M65ADE0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?
s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1476986985 &sr=1-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=10e634-
20&linkId=df44ff96456ec2e2e1 00c964cb8e5a71

The Complete Soul City/Bell Singles 1966-1975 (3 CD Set)

Looks like I'll get my wish for Christmas. Mono heaven.
Looks like
all of the songs on The Complete Soul City/Bell Singles 1966-1975 are in
mono, which is great.

But I thought the original 45 versions of Blowing Away and Sweet Blindness
were stereo. Does anyone know where the mono versions of these songs
came from for this compilation? Are these from the dj promos?
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Bill Cahill
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Posted: 12 April 2017 at 4:50am | IP Logged Quote Bill Cahill

This may have been covered previously but the mono versions that I own of Sweet Blindness and Blowing Away sure sound like fold downs. My reference
copies are the DJ mono/stereo of Sweet Blindness, and an original stock copy of Blowing Away (stereo) which I can compare to the Bell re-issue that was
mono. Of course, Bell may have just done a fold down of their own for their re-issue series instead of using DJ 45 mono masters, I don't know. But JL's
question still remains open, for the CD were the DJ mono copies used for reference as at least some stock copies were stereo?

Edited by Bill Cahill on 12 April 2017 at 4:51am
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