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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 20 April 2010 at 8:30pm | IP Logged
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Picking apart this track on the Steve Hoffman board, and thought I'd post my findings:
More crazy edits! The full album version runs 25:28, and all the versions I have on CD are labeled in Pat Downey's book as "neither the 45 or LP version". Have A Nice Day Vol. 23 (1996) runs 3:17 and sounds pretty terrible here - very muffled sound compared to the other versions I have. Must be a very high-generation source tape. There's a version running 4:15 on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies - A Loss For Words (1995) that has decent sound, but I suspect that it's just the first 4:15 of the LP version, because nothing really happens. (HAND clearly has edits, and goes through lots of changes over its length.) Madacy's Rock On 1974 (1996) is digitally identical to A Loss For Words. Disky's 8-CD Greatest Hits Of The '70s (2000) is the same 4:15 version, but with a different analog transfer. And complicating matters even further is a promo CD single, Virgin PRCD 3572, with only one track, denoted as "Edit", with a printed and actual time of 3:20. The sound is infinitely more clear than HAND, but it's edited differently - could this be the actual 45 edit? If I had to pick one version, it would be this promo CD single.
I'll be happy to send this promo CD single version around, if it will help clear things up. (I'd also like to know if the 4:15 versions are just the opening 4:15 of the album version.)
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Hykker
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| Posted: 21 April 2010 at 5:27am | IP Logged
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crapfromthepast wrote:
| And complicating matters even further is a promo CD single, Virgin PRCD 3572, with only one track, denoted as "Edit", with a printed and actual time of 3:20. The sound is infinitely more clear than HAND, but it's edited differently - could this be the actual 45 edit? If I had to pick one version, it would be this promo CD single. |
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Was this an actual re-release of the song (and if so, when?) or just a radio/in-store sampler? Obviously there were no promo CDs in 1974!
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 21 April 2010 at 5:43am | IP Logged
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It looks like it was for radio. It says For Promotional Use Only - Not For Sale, much like the late '80s promo CDs for radio.
Don't know what it's promoting; it says "From the album TUBULAR BELLS available on Virgin Cassettes and Compact Discs. 90589"
Mike Oldfield did a Tubular Bells 2 in 1992 (with Trevor Horn?) on Warner Bros. Could this Virgin promo CD be released to capitalize on that? Can anyone pin down the release date for PRCD 3572?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 21 April 2010 at 7:43am | IP Logged
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Based on other Virgin promo CD releases with similar catalog numbers, it appears that one was put out in 1990.
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jimct
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| Posted: 21 April 2010 at 9:02am | IP Logged
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I obtained (and still have) that 1990 promo CD single, hoping for the best. But, edit-wise, it is clearly a million miles away from being the correct 1974 Top 10 45 version. I remember being very disapponted at the time. I believe that 1990 promo CD single was released to promote an Oldfield "Hits" compilation issued around that same time. Probably because I am so used to it, I'll take the 1974 hit mix over the 1990 promo CD single version any day!
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Todd Ireland
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| Posted: 21 April 2010 at 10:41pm | IP Logged
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I think it's reasonably safe to assume the single master tapes for "Tubular Bells" are missing or lost... Otherwise, why would these reissue labels go through the trouble of repeatedly trying to edit down the full 25:28 album version, albeit incorrectly?
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sriv94
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| Posted: 29 April 2010 at 9:56am | IP Logged
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Has anyone ever pinpointed exactly what the differences are between the 45 version and the HAND version?
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jimct
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| Posted: 29 April 2010 at 8:31pm | IP Logged
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Doug, the HAND version is not even close, either, because it was simply an engineer's uneducated guess. The HAND v will not be any help to you in getting the correct 45v. Forgive me sir, because it has been at least 7+ years since myself/my now-out-of-touch-with digital buddies tackled it. It can be done (although my "experts" inexplicably didn't match up the 45/LP speeds, which made my end result way too fast!) But, if I were trying to pick a song to give a person the maximum "audio agita", I would suggest they try to accurately create the correct 45v for "Tubular Bells!" Even "Ron/CFTP's" chime-in above is not his normal breakdown, which gives you an idea about what this one entails! But what I DO remember is that, despite having a forever-long, (25:28) album version to work with (which is 98% of the problem), the correct 45 ending was nonetheless repeated/spliced on from the beginning 45 notes. Doug, unless you possess note-for-note, wave file comparison technology to utilize, against a 1974 45 and MANY available hours, I believe success is impossible. This board is FULL of digital wizards, and still, I can't think of another Top 10 hit that has YET to be 100% digitally nailed as of today, despite all of its source audio currently existing on digital, can you? And, with over 800 views now, perhaps this one should be elevated to the "Holy Grail Of Top 10 Hit 45 Versions Wanted On Digital" status!
Edited by jimct on 29 April 2010 at 8:59pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 30 April 2010 at 9:54am | IP Logged
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jimct wrote:
| This board is FULL of digital wizards, and still, I can't think of another Top 10 hit that has YET to be 100% digitally nailed as of today, despite all of its source audio currently existing on digital, can you? And, with over 800 views now, perhaps this one should be elevated to the "Holy Grail Of Top 10 Hit 45 Versions Wanted On Digital" status! |
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Jim, you know that once you post a statement like that, I'm going to ask you to please send all needed audio to create the 100% correct version. :D
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edtop40
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| Posted: 30 April 2010 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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if anyone can nail it, it'll be aaron!!!
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eric_a
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| Posted: 30 April 2010 at 2:38pm | IP Logged
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aaronk wrote:
Jim, you know that once you post a statement like that, I'm going to ask you to please send all needed audio to create the 100% correct version. |
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Jim: Can you please send the 45v to me too? Aaron: up for a race? :)
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sriv94
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| Posted: 02 May 2010 at 12:15pm | IP Logged
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Having now heard the 45, I see where Jim is coming from in his analysis. There's a lot wrong with the HAND version. Among the differences (there are definitely others):
A keyboard sequence is repeated at (:18) on the HAND version, while that sequence is removed from the 45.
The HAND version is slightly faster than the 45.
The sequence that begins at (:47) of the HAND version doesn't start until the (1:27) mark of the 45.
The sequence with the guitar over the bells (not the guitar solo) happens twice on the HAND version, and only once on the 45.
The bass keyboard solo following the guitar solo runs about 45 seconds on the HAND version, it only runs about 25 seconds on the 45.
The HAND edit completely botches the ending.
And there's quite a bit of audio on the 45 not on the HAND version (notably the section from (:56) to (1:27)).
As stated, there are (probably) more, but I think we get the idea.
Edited by sriv94 on 02 May 2010 at 12:21pm
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aaronk
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| Posted: 06 June 2010 at 4:42pm | IP Logged
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I just finished massacring Mike Oldfield's 26-minute epic. I now have an exact replica of the original 45 version. There's no denying it--this one was a nightmare to edit (no pun intended). It's not so much that there are an overwhelming number of edits; it's just very hard to find the exact parts needed, since so much of the song is repeated. It also doesn't help that there isn't any percussion, which is a typical spot for easily finding edit points.
The good news is that the last 18 minutes of the LP version aren't even used in the single version. If anyone wants a copy of my re-created version, please send a PM.
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Paul Haney
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| Posted: 07 June 2010 at 7:48am | IP Logged
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Aaron just sent me his recreation and it sounds great!
Nice work, Aaron!
Thanks for taking the time and effort to finally nail this one.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 07 June 2010 at 7:57am | IP Logged
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My pleasure, Paul. It actually sounds quite a bit better than the original 45 since there is far less hiss. By the time they were done creating the original edit, it was probably 2 or 3 generations removed from the master recording. Given the very low audio of most of the song, they had to pump up the levels significantly, thus also raising the volume on a few layers of tape hiss.
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JL328
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| Posted: 16 May 2011 at 2:01pm | IP Logged
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I'm a long time lurker who just recently wrote Mr. Downey for a password. I've been reading these boards religiously ever since I discovered them about a year and a half ago and now hope to be able to contribute to the discussions.
With regard to "Tubular Bells," there is a version called "Tubular Bells (From the Exorcist)" that runs 3:16 and is available on iTunes from a digital album called Tubular Bells (Deluxe Version). It is my understanding that the digital album containing this 3:16 track is exclusive to iTunes and unavailable on other sites such as Amazon.
I purchased this track and have listended to it next to the short version (A-Side) of the vinyl 45 single and they sound identical to me. I also did a visual comparison of the digital track and the vinyl 45 using Audacity and they appear to be identical there as well.
Has anyone else purchased this iTunes version of "Tubular Bells?" And can anyone confirm that this is indeed a digital incarnation of the elusive short 45 version of "Tubular Bells?"
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Santi Paradoa
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 7:08am | IP Logged
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JL328 wrote:
With regard to "Tubular Bells," there is a version called "Tubular Bells (From the Exorcist)" that runs 3:16 and is available on iTunes from a digital album called Tubular Bells (Deluxe Version).
I purchased this track and have listended to it next to the short version (A-Side) of the vinyl 45 single and they sound identical to me. I also did a visual comparison of the digital track and the vinyl 45 using Audacity and they appear to be identical there as well.
Has anyone else purchased this iTunes version of "Tubular Bells?" And can anyone confirm that this is indeed a digital incarnation of the elusive short 45 version of "Tubular Bells?" |
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I haven't purchased it yet Jeff, but I think I might now that you reported this. Also, welcome to the board.
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Brian W.
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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Welcome to the board, JL328!
I purchased the iTunes track. It sounds like the 45 version. Aaron agreed after a cursory listen. There is a lot of ground hum present that I'm not sure if it was on the 45 or not.
Turns out this track is not an iTunes exclusive, though. It was issued on CD in 2010 on a UK progressive rock compilation called "Wondrous Stories," available in both two- and four-disc sets.
I compared the "Wondrous Stories" version to the iTunes track in an audio editor, and they are digital clones, except the CD version is approximately 1.0 decibal louder and is clipped at the loudest part of the song. Also, the CD version fades a hair before the iTunes version, though not before the music ends -- right after the final quiet "buh!" note at the very end, it just quickly fades to silence, whereas the iTunes version goes on about a second longer.
The background hum is quite severe on both, though. It may be a HAIR less prominent on the iTunes version (probably slightly differet EQ). But the strange thing is, it seems to be gone at the 2:43 mark, right as the big crescendo fades to a microsecond of silence, then the hum is back as the piano starts in again. Odd. You have to wonder if this actually was on the master tape and is just not audible on the 45 for some reason.
If someone wants to send me a 45 dub, I'd like to compare them directly. But Aaron's custom edit has got to have better sound quality.
Edited by Brian W. on 18 May 2011 at 11:46am
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aaronk
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| Posted: 18 May 2011 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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Brian, I'm sure I have the 45 dub on my PC. I'll send it over.
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Steve Carras
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jimct wrote:
| Hykker was extremely kind to supply me with mp3s of both his short and long "late 1973, from a promo EP, before it ever became 'Theme From The Exorcist' versions of Tubular Bells", for my evaluation. (And Robert, yes, the hit 45 stock copies labels for this song were black and white, which only happened rarely. My hit promo 45's mono side label was white, with the typical, Atlantic/Atco/Associated light blue color being used for the promo 45's stereo side label.) Hykker mentioned that he even sort of preferred this earlier "Tubular Bells" version to the later, hit 45 version. I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do also enjoy "New Age" music on occasion, and I found them enjoyable as well. I also concur 100% with Hykker's e-mail assessment to me that his "short version" is simply an edit of his "long version". My determination, however, is that not a single second of audio, from either of these two longer versions, was included on the hit 45. In all honesty, if someone had played me either/both of these two versions, and then asked me to "Name That Tune", the thought of me guessing "Tubular Bells" wouldn't even have crossed my mind, except for the fact that a human voice would occasionally be "instrument-name-dropping", and once he did mention "Tubular Bells". (While listening, I couldn't help but think that these versions were the New Age equivalent of either "Memphis Soul Stew" or "Tighten Up!") My gut is that Hykker's EP is an earlier, entirely different take of the song, because I know the hit 45 can be created from my CD copy of his 1974 LP. But, with "Tubular Bells" taking the entire side of that LP (well over 20:00 long), there is still many "unused hit 45 version" minutes left to utilize, and I will pull/listen to my CD later in the week, searching for any/all of the audio portions included on Hykker's promo. |
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Not to mention ANOTHER full album side on side B.;)
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Tubular Bells 45 version
