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KentT
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Posted: 02 April 2012 at 1:53pm | IP Logged Quote KentT

Last known 45 issue of the Short version of Knock On Wood was an Arista Flashback reissue 45 sometime before 1984. Wonder if there is a single master in the Sony vault for this tune?

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sriv94
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Posted: 10 November 2016 at 7:51pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94

Sorry to rerevisit this, but I think there's a small issue with the Disco Years Volume 3 version (in addition to speed and fade considerations).
It sounds to me upon taking multiple listens that one drum beat is missing from the beginning.

Especially after I looked at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8pvQEn4CA

The YT link was uploaded to 45cat, and I saw it as I was trying to find a scan of the promo label. My hearing may not be what it used to be, so I'd
like someone to corroborate my thought.

Edited by sriv94 on 10 November 2016 at 7:52pm


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Posted: 23 November 2016 at 1:54pm | IP Logged Quote Fastphilly

Here is a link to the promo 45 short version spinning on Youtube. Excellent audio as well :)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcV7TToOVDs
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sriv94
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Posted: 20 October 2018 at 9:02pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94

sriv94 wrote:
Now, let me throw something into the fire. While on a trip to NY years ago, I was listening to
WPLJ, where Scott Shannon and Todd Pettengill were doing their usual Friday feature "Flush The Format." One of
the tunes played was "Knock On Wood"--which had the drum intro (not the electronic intro), but had the edit in
the "you better knock, knock, knock, knock on wood, babe" refrain. The source was clearly vinyl (although it may
have been on cart).

Which leads me to wonder whether there was more than one 45 version for this, either promo or commercial.


Sorry again to threadbump, but while rifling through YouTube I found this video labeled as being the "7" Edit"
from Knock On Wood: The Anthology (which is available digitally but may not be on an actual disc). This
version matches the version I described above (drum intro, edit in the "knock, knock, knock on wood, babe"
refrain).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMUNZKiRiwA

It also jibes with the version I remember hearing on radio in 1979 (drum intro instead of electronic).

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Posted: 21 October 2018 at 10:24am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Hey Doug, I just sent you dubs of the promo 45 and stock 45 versions. Please let us know what you find!

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Posted: 21 October 2018 at 11:00am | IP Logged Quote sriv94

aaronk wrote:
Hey Doug, I just sent you dubs of the promo 45 and stock 45 versions. Please let us know what you
find!


Much appreciated, Aaron. And the versions are the way you and Ron describe them (promo has the drum intro but no
edit on the "you better knock, knock, knock on wood, babe" refrain, stock 45 [which was the B-side of the promo] has
the electronic intro and the edit in the refrain).

Still, I can't shake the feeling that the version I've described was in release somewhere--maybe as an alternate
promo or alternate stock single. I could be way off base too.

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Posted: 21 October 2018 at 11:47am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I haven't looked, but are there any other promo 45s that don't match the
one I have?

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sriv94
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Posted: 22 October 2018 at 6:04am | IP Logged Quote sriv94

User smallworld sent me a YT link that indicates the version I've described is the UK 45. So the question is if that version made its way stateside in some form, and that's what some radio stations played.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhPqnN5AEw

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The Hits Man
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Posted: 22 October 2018 at 12:44pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man

My original U.S. Ariola 45 starts with the electronic
noise, and
that's also what I heard on the radio in 1979.

Edited by The Hits Man on 22 October 2018 at 12:45pm


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sriv94
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Posted: 18 April 2021 at 6:37pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94

sriv94 wrote:
aaronk wrote:
Hey Doug, I just sent you dubs of the promo 45 and stock 45 versions. Please
let us know what you find!


Much appreciated, Aaron. And the versions are the way you and Ron describe them (promo has the drum intro
but no edit on the "you better knock, knock, knock on wood, babe" refrain, stock 45 [which was the B-side of
the promo] has the electronic intro and the edit in the refrain).

Still, I can't shake the feeling that the version I've described was in release somewhere--maybe as an
alternate promo or alternate stock single. I could be way off base too.


Sorry to bump this again, but is it possible there was more than one promo single version of this?

The reason I ask is because this post in Discogs:

https://www.discogs.com/Amii-Stewart-Knock-On-Wood/release/6 532032

indicates that both sides are identical except for the intro (which means one side runs (3:45) as actually
stated on the record label, the other runs (3:40) and was the same as the stock single). There's also a YouTube
post that corroborates that. Yet all the promos available to the class have run (3:58). The 13 second
difference is in the refrain (and whether it's edited or not).

Does anyone have a US promo that does run (3:45) on one side (the Disco side, not the Short side)?

I just want to make sure I'm not totally crazy. I mean, I am, but that's besides the point. :)

Edited by sriv94 on 18 April 2021 at 6:57pm


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Posted: 19 April 2021 at 6:01am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

My copy of the promo has a listed time of 3:45 but an actual time of 3:58. I have it dubbed to my hard drive and can confirm this. My guess is that the Discogs note is not correct about the versions being the same except for the intro. It's probably a case where someone didn't do a very careful comparison. That's not to say there isn't another promo edit, but I don't typically trust Discogs notes to be accurate when it comes to claims of specific versions. I only trust this forum on those details!

Edited by aaronk on 19 April 2021 at 6:05am


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sriv94
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Posted: 19 April 2021 at 6:33am | IP Logged Quote sriv94

I getcha, Aaron.

However, this YouTube user corroborates what Discogs says:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk1cRatd24c

Quote:
The only difference between this side and the "DIsco" side is 5 seconds and a slight variation in
the intro. I prefer this intro because it sounds like Amii's landing her spaceship to come sing to us with
crazy video effects. ;) Yeah, go watch that music video. Released January 15, 1979. Reached #1 U.S.
Billboard Hot 100, #6 U.S. Billboard R&B, #5 U.S. Billboard Club Play, #6 U.K., #13 Germany, 1979. MANY
more worldwide chart listings will be listed here soon. Cover of the 1966 Eddie Floyd hit.


And that note matches up with my recollection of the version I heard on the radio (which also matches the
UK 45 version).

So that's why I'm asking if anyone has a promo that actually does run (3:45) on the Disco side.

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Posted: 19 April 2021 at 7:00am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

No disrespect to Cletus Hunnicutt (the YouTube poster), but I'm guessing he's no Doug Scherer when it comes to noting such small differences in edits. Yeah, there's a 5 second difference in the printed time on the label, but I'll be curious to know if he responds to you and actually times the "disco" side of his promo. I'll wager a bet it's the same one I have!

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Posted: 19 April 2021 at 7:03am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

As a side note, have you confirmed that the UK 45 has the exact edit you remember? If so, I suppose it's possible your local station played it from there.

EDIT: Yes, the UK 45 does match your recollection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhPqnN5AEw

Edited by aaronk on 19 April 2021 at 7:14am


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sriv94
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Posted: 19 April 2021 at 7:55am | IP Logged Quote sriv94

aaronk wrote:
No disrespect to Cletus Hunnicutt (the YouTube poster), but I'm guessing he's no Doug
Scherer when it comes to noting such small differences in edits. Yeah, there's a 5 second difference in
the printed time on the label, but I'll be curious to know if he responds to you and actually times the
"disco" side of his promo. I'll wager a bet it's the same one I have!


Thank you. I think. :)

aaronk wrote:
As a side note, have you confirmed that the UK 45 has the exact edit you remember? If so,
I suppose it's possible your local station played it from there.

EDIT: Yes, the UK 45 does match your recollection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhPqnN5AEw


Considering the station in question was the legendary Big 89, WLS in Chicago, I don't think they needed to
stoop to getting the UK 45 version for airplay. However, I did bring up that WPLJ in NY played it during
one of their "Flush the Format" Fridays and it was also the "drum open/edit on the refrain" version.
Scott and Todd had been known to grab music from WABC's old cart library (WABC had gone to talk 15 or so
years earlier but kept a lot of the music) for the gimmick (and you could clearly hear a few crackles, so
it wasn't from CD or hard drive, so it's a pretty safe assumption that's what they did there).

Edited by sriv94 on 19 April 2021 at 8:02am


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Posted: 19 April 2021 at 8:17am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Hopefully you can track it down, Doug. You also have me curious about the possibility of another promo. I'm sure you've already considered yet another possibility that it was a custom edit. Maybe the program director liked the drum intro but thought the refrain was too long.

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Posted: 02 August 2022 at 2:22am | IP Logged Quote mjb50

Aaron, the 5:40 flyover-intro version you mentioned 10 years ago might be what the digital release Knock On Wood: The Anthology (2016) calls the German Edit With Intro (5:38).

I'm told the complete version probably originated on the Italian 12" (printed duration 5:45), and the first European LPs all featured a slightly early fade of it:
the German LP ("5:39")
the Dutch LP ("5:39")
the Scandivanian LP ("5:39")
The Japanese LP says ("5:37")

(Later releases had the drum-intro version, although I have yet to confirm if they all used the US version of that or what.)

An almost complete version (5:38) was on this French compilation:
Le top de la disco (2xCD version, Carrere, 1989). Duration misprinted on the release as 6:23. The end is slightly cut off though, and the fade might begin a little too early.

A slightly early fade (5:33) was on some French compilation CDs:
Culture Dance vol. 1 (Versailles, 1993)
Dance Story 2 (Versailles, 1994)
Flash Back (Versailles, 1995)


Edited by mjb50 on 02 August 2022 at 7:30am
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Posted: 02 August 2022 at 4:06am | IP Logged Quote AndrewChouffi

Tricky question here:

Can anyone help me determine what speed/tempo the track
was originally recorded at in the studio by determining
actual notes & keys?

I remember when the promo 12" came out I appreciated a
choice in tempo to facilitate mixing in with other
records (probably the idea of Rusty Garner, who
championed Club DJs), but I always was curious as to what
tempo/pitch it was recorded.

Thanks in advance for any hypotheses!

Andy
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Posted: 02 August 2022 at 6:22am | IP Logged Quote mjb50

It's surely in a major key, so the first horn notes, which are close to the note "A", surely are supposed to be exactly "A", not A-flat or B-flat, which would have a moody/sad feel.

So, in a frequency analysis view, there should be peaks or bright lines at 220 Hz (A2), 440 (A4), 880 (A5), 1760 (A6), and so on. The center of the hump or line is what you want to try to get to be at those frequencies.

For example, if you see A4 is actually centered at 433, divide it into 440 to get ~1.0161, which means it's 1.61% too slow (by the A4=440 standard). To sound as it was recorded, it needs a speedup of that much, e.g. reinterpret the sample rate as 44813 instead of 44100, and resample back to 44100 (or use whatever speed adjustment option you prefer).

Anyway, some more research follows.

Knock On Wood: The Anthology contains these versions (all links go to YouTube):

German Edit with Intro (5:38) – as mentioned above; and I see they've added 'Album' to the YouTube title.

7" Edit (3:45) – this has the edited chorus break and matches the UK 45 as played by humanjukebox45s on YouTube.

Long Disco Version (6:20) – has a shortened drum intro, among other edits, and matches a German reissue LP(?) as played by Søren Jensen on YouTube. Exactly where this appears on original-era vinyl, I'm not sure, because on Discogs, all the LPs that don't say 5:39 say 6:13 just like the US LP. But maybe some of them actually play this?

The European 45s I found on YouTube do not have the edited chorus break. The exact fade-out point on each one varies, I'm told, and I noticed it myself, e.g. the Spanish 45 ends 4½ seconds earlier than the UK 45, and the The 2nd German 45 ("Original US-Hit Version") just keeps on going until 4:30.

I'm wondering if there are some pressings of the UK 45 with the unedited chorus break; someone seems to play such a 45 on YouTube, but the atrocious audio quality makes me wonder if he actually swapped the audio in from elsewhere.

Edited by mjb50 on 02 August 2022 at 2:19pm
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Posted: 02 August 2022 at 6:06pm | IP Logged Quote davidclark

crapfromthe past mentions on the LP version there's a 92-beat drum intro for
the first 40 seconds. I have this version, but I recently came across a version
running a bit longer, 6:20 with only an 11 second drum intro. This version is on
the 1997 UK 2-CD set "The Hits & The Remixes". Anyone know when this
version originated?

Edit: After posting this, I just noticed that earlier today mjb50 mentioned this
version in his post!

Edited by davidclark on 02 August 2022 at 6:11pm


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